November 23, 2012

Tiger Mothers in their natural habitat

From the NYT:
A Chinese Education, for a Price

The demands for bribes can start before a child enters kindergarten. 
By DAN LEVIN 
BEIJING — For Chinese children and their devoted parents, education has long been seen as the key to getting ahead in a highly competitive society. But just as money and power grease business deals and civil servant promotions, the academic race here is increasingly rigged in favor of the wealthy and well connected, who pay large sums and use connections to give their children an edge at government-run schools. 
Nearly everything has a price, parents and educators say, from school admissions and placement in top classes to leadership positions in Communist youth groups. Even front-row seats near the blackboard or a post as class monitor are up for sale. 
Zhao Hua, a migrant from Hebei Province who owns a small electronics business here, said she was forced to deposit $4,800 into a bank account to enroll her daughter in a Beijing elementary school. At the bank, she said, she was stunned to encounter officials from the district education committee armed with a list of students and how much each family had to pay. Later, school officials made her sign a document saying the fee was a voluntary “donation.”


But, how different are things here?

31 comments:

desert lady said...

the media makes big bucks from advertisements purchased by colleges, so they generally are ready to promote the american higher education scam as a Good Thing.

Follow the money....

Reg Cæsar said...

In both countries you absolutely have to get your children into the ruling class, because that's who's screwing everyone else, including your kids if they don't make it.

The main difference is that the Chinese lower classes are still Chinese. Replacing them with Mexicans is one screw-job too far, too corrupt, for their élites to contemplate.

There is still honor among thieves. At least Chinese thieves.

Galvani's Frog Dance Theatre's Orchestra Conductor said...

But, how different are things here?

Here, the leadership positions in Communist youth groups are free.

Steven B. said...

Here, bribery and corruption is more frowned upon by the culture (or at least used to be). There is still a higher pct. of people here who would not only turn it down, but report it if someone offered them money. There are more regulations and auditors,etc in place that punish people in positions who get caught acting corrupt. There's a 'broken windows' aspect to corruption- if you don't feel that everyone is doing it, and you feel that there is a risk that you might get caught, then you don't feel like you should try. On the other hand, if it feels that everyone is being corrupt, it encourages others to jump right in.

Anonymous said...

Steve, don't take this the wrong way. Your blog is great, but seriously you need to slow down to maybe one post per day, two at the most. You are putting too many posts out there, especially during Holiday season, and it is too difficult to keep up with all the comments which are a big part of your blog. Your articles are great, but the comments section is really enjoyable. Please throttle back.

Anonymous said...

Gee, I wonder how our presidents are made. Bought for a price? Nah.

Anonymous said...

tiger pelt mother

Anonymous said...

Steve, your provincial roots are showing. Diverse, vibrant empires for centuries were characterized by bribes. The point is there are multiple ways to get through life, multiple paths to success. Who are we to say one path is better than another? I'm sure there is some relevant Anthropological literature that I could quote to judge your judgementality of East Asian modes of living.

Anonymous said...

Steve, please don't throttle back. The more posts, the merrier. I haven't noticed any decline in quality from this.

Anonymous said...

Here, bribery and corruption is more frowned upon by the culture (or at least used to be).

Not by THAT much!

Anonymous said...

the media makes big bucks from advertisements purchased by colleges

The Wash. Post is actually the money-losing division of Kaplan. BTW Congrats on going blond; симпатично ты выглядишь

characterized by bribes. The point is there are multiple ways to get through life, multiple paths to success. Who are we to say one path is better than another

Sarcasm aside, the South Asians in particular are relatively philosophical about bribes (and brides) in the way you elaborate. Actually American businessmen are, too.

Anonymous said...

Here, bribery and corruption is more frowned upon by the culture (or at least used to be)

I think it's more of a function of a strong middle class that shapes ethical norms in society.

There is an inverse relationship between the wealth and strength of the middle class vs corruption.

In the West, bribes and corruption are usually more subtle and sophisticated, because they have to be. At least for now...

Coffee at 4 said...

" Anonymous said...

Here, bribery and corruption is more frowned upon by the culture (or at least used to be).

Not by THAT much!"

People say that, but then never actually experience just how vast a difference it is between here and there. When they say anything for a price there, they literally mean it.

Someone gets into a jam with the police there, a little $ greasing the palm and its forgotten. Someone steals your computer, you give some extra $ to the cops, and magically your computer is returned.

Hunsdon said...

Steve:

Massively off topic, but could I implore you to revisit the Strange Case of Sibel Edmonds? Phil Giraldi has a review of her book at TAC, and it seems as if the case has only continued to be thoroughly bizarre.

If it's fiction, man, what a great read.

If it's true . . . well, hey, umm. Gee. I guess. Might as well enjoy the ride down. "A republic, madam, if you can keep it." Indeed.

Anonymous said...

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scientist/2012/11/maddox_prize_2012_shi_min_fang_wins_award_for_exposing_scientific_fraud.html

Jerry in Hong Kong said...

The flipside to this is that the Chinese have always viewed education as a practical tool to achieve practical goals. Win in the exams and become a Mandarin, a government official with a sinecure. The concept of liberal education, of thinking about "the good life," of Socratic exploration, is unknown there. There is only praxis. This is also one contributing factor to the preference of NE Asians for the STEM fields--the payoff is there, so much more visibly. I would much rather take the Western universities, with their vulnerability to the corruptions of PC and ethnocentrism, to the dull vocational schools that academia represents in China and Hong Kong.

Anonymous said...

It is notable how many Chinese go for govt jobs. Perhaps they have been selected for a symbiotic relationship with govt.

Anonymous said...

The flipside to this is that the Chinese have always viewed education as a practical tool to achieve practical goals. Win in the exams and become a Mandarin, a government official with a sinecure.

Same here. Except that there are two roads to sinecure: work for GOV or for EDU. No wonder that both are becoming increasingly corrupt.

Svigor said...

In both countries you absolutely have to get your children into the ruling class, because that's who's screwing everyone else, including your kids if they don't make it.

The main difference is that the Chinese lower classes are still Chinese. Replacing them with Mexicans is one screw-job too far, too corrupt, for their élites to contemplate.

There is still honor among thieves. At least Chinese thieves.


This will remain unfalsifiable for quite some time. There are 1.3b Chinese and only 300m or so have moved into the middle class. Since the Chinese are smarter, more conscientious, and more agreeable than the competition, there's no reason at all for the Chinese elite to replace their coolie population with foreign coolie populations.

Once the Chinese have burned through their coolie population and China's population is largely middle class, we may see some movement on this, but that's going to take a while. And even then the habitable parts of China are going to be packed to the rafters (compare the most densely-populated provinces of China with the most densely-populated states in Europe).

Anonymous said...

Chua had a tiger father and really takes after him. But she married some Jewish dude who wasn't like her father at all.
I guess she wanted to feel free and not have a tough husband who felt a need to boss her around.
Yet, she also felt a need to push her kids around(and play the 'father' role in the family while her hubby played a more supportive mother role).

Hmmm, maybe there is the soft spot in Jewish power. Jewish guys may be clever and all, but they are putty in the hands of feisty Asian chicks. So, how about we bring over a million hot Asian chicks and make them marry Jewish guys. Maybe that will mellow down Jewish power.

Anonymous said...

East Asians just don't excite white people into the same reactions they have for black people. The reactions in this thread are very tame compared to any thread relating to black people. That is great for East Asians because they get to move around in white society largely unnoticed and do whatever they please. I guess many white people are fine with this corruption being exported to their homes with the mass, never-ending immigration of East Asians.

Svigor, I doubt the Chinese will burn through their coolie population. Computerization and mechanization of industries will be too fast for them to accomplish that. China will never reach the level of prosperity that Japan or Korea have reached. The population is too large and jobs too few. The only reason China is as prosperous as it is now is because Western companies have moved jobs and know-how to that country.

Hunsdon said...

Anonydroid at 6:22 PM said: I guess many white people are fine with this corruption being exported to their homes with the mass, never-ending immigration of East Asians.

Hunsdon corrected: No, sir, indeed you have guessed wrong. Preferring death by drowning to death by impalement does not mean one is altogether eager to die. Whiskey, maybe.

Succotash said...

"Hmmm, maybe there is the soft spot in Jewish power. Jewish guys may be clever and all, but they are putty in the hands of feisty Asian chicks. So, how about we bring over a million hot Asian chicks and make them marry Jewish guys. Maybe that will mellow down Jewish power."

_____________________
Based on n=1?
_____________________

Anonymous said...

"Steve, don't take this the wrong way. Your blog is great, but seriously you need to slow down to maybe one post per day, two at the most. You are putting too many posts out there, especially during Holiday season..."

Hey Sailer! Since when did you start approving comments from your wife?

Half Sigma said...

It's very different here. Elite private schools are egalitarian in the way they treat the students lucky enough to get accepted and whose parents can afford the tuition.

And at public schools, parents don't care enough about education to bribe anyone.

Reg Cæsar said...

So, how about we bring over a million hot Asian chicks and make them marry Jewish guys. Maybe that will mellow down Jewish power.
--anon.

Go right to the source and ask the horse: Amy Chua Rosenfeld.

Don't forget blacks, either. Whatever you may think of Lenny Kravitz, he's not a political threat to anybody.

Anonymous said...

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/11/25/rust-belt-growing-in-china/

Maybe this why Chinese so desperate.

Maxwell said...

"Reg Cæsar said...

So, how about we bring over a million hot Asian chicks and make them marry Jewish guys. Maybe that will mellow down Jewish power.
--anon.

Go right to the source and ask the horse: Amy Chua Rosenfeld.

Don't forget blacks, either. Whatever you may think of Lenny Kravitz, he's not a political threat to anybody."


-Yes, I also posted a similar reply to that comment (yesterday), but it seems to have been filtered away by the thought Gestapos, so I'll phrase it a bit differently so that hopefully it will go through.

If we were going to get the Scots-Irish to mate with anyone, shouldn't it be with African Americans? After all, the Scots-Irish proclaim their support for them, in classrooms, in entertainment biz, maybe they can prove their support. If all are equal, if there is no such thing as race, then it shouldn't matter, right? If single black women are the poorest category of American and Scots-Irish men the wealthiest, and if they truly believe in abolishing wealth inequality, then they should be willing to prove it and do their part and show the way for their fellow Americans.

Practically speaking, the offspring would be ~100 IQ, which is around the average for the US ((85+115)/2). They would be on more equal footing with the rest of Americans, neither prone to failure and crime, nor to successfully engaging in social engineering mischief.

I realize that the Scots-Irish represent a smaller portion of the population than African Americans, so, as long as we're wishing, we could help the matter by sterilizing African-American felons.

Then there is the added bonus compared to the Asian chick suggestion, of not bringing in millions of more immigrants....



Anonymous said...

So you've got n=2, Reg. Rather meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Anonymous said...

If a culture allows people to bribe their way into top schools, government positions or jobs; than you will get mush poorer results than if you somehow enforce a meritocracy - such as through capitalistic competition and failure, objective admission examinations, and even subjective grades and performance evaluations given under no conflict of interest.

Truckee Man said...

My white working class friend's dyslexic son is in medical school. In the US talent + hard work still equals success. There is more opportunity in this country than people to take advantage of it.