May 9, 2012

John Travolta on Nurture v. Nature

Back in January, I wrote in Taki's Magazine in Goodbye, Mr. Chimps:
Although future behavioral taboos are notoriously hard to predict, it’s clear that within this decade America will end the use of chimpanzees in entertainment. I’ll go much further out on a limb and also predict that within a generation, and for much the same reasons, we will seriously consider banning child stars. ... 
... [Because] having men play monkeys is better for all concerned, a similar question will suggest itself: Is it humane to use human children as professional entertainers? 
The digital technology enabling adults to portray kid characters is rapidly arriving. ... 
One obvious problem is sexual exploitation of ambitious minors. A January 8, 2012 Los Angeles Times story by Dawn C. Chmielewski reports, “At least a dozen child-molestation and child-pornography prosecutions since 2000 have involved actors, managers, production assistants and others in the entertainment industry.” That’s not a huge number—one known case per year—but who can begin to guesstimate the number of unknown cases?  

The Daily Beast reports this excerpt from a new sexual harassment lawsuit filed by a male masseuse against movie star John Travolta. That Travolta would get sued by a man isn't exactly big news to anybody paying attention. Heck, his 1978 romance movie Moment by Moment with a Lily Tomlin who looks just like him had people wondering back then what the subtext was. But Travolta's explanation for his life's course, as alleged by the plaintiff, is interesting:
8. "Defendant [John Travolta] began screaming at Plaintiff, telling Plaintiff how selfish he was; that Defendant got to where he is now due to sexual favors he had performed when he was in his Welcome Back, Kotter days; and that Hollywood is controlled by homosexual Jewish men who expect [to dole out?] favors in return for sexual activity. Defendant then went on to say how he had done things in his past that would make most people throw up." 
9. "Defendant explained when he started that he wasn't even gay ... Defendant also said that he was smart enough to learn to enjoy it, and when he began to make millions of dollars, that it all became well worth it."

In Taki's Magazine last summer, I thought through various theories on what percentage of famous male entertainment celebrities are gay: Part 1 and Part 2. I'd say my thinking looks pretty good as of today. As for the demographics, well, on The Larry Sanders Show, producer Artie explained them to writer Phil here.

By the way, today President Obama endorsed gay marriage, which will, obviously, solve these problems. The only reason powerful gay men sexually exploit handsome youths is because society discriminates against gays by not letting them marry.

100 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's amazing to me that this public stuff hasn't happened to Travolta long, long ago. Heck, just a few years ago pics surfaced all over the net of Travolta mouth kissing a guy on the stairs of his plane.

I thought just about everyone knew by now he was gay.

However, is he innately gay, or is it possible that he "has learned to like it." Men are susceptible to all kinds of paraphilias and sexual proclivities IF the culture of which they are a part promotes it, rewards it.

All this talk about gay marriage, something that didn't used to bother me but does now (to the point I voted against it ) started me thinking about unintended consequences of the changes we allow.

For example, I really do think we allow divorces to take place too quickly, too easily, and that we can trace back to no-fault and quickie divorces the problems in the family that have resulted in our steep decline.

The issue of gay marriage has gotten me to think more deeply about the likelihood that eventually pederasty will become the "new-normal" just as gays have tried to make homosexuality the "new normal." (BTW, Steve you probably know that's the name of a new NBC comedy about a gay couple raising a child and the surrogate mother that lives with them--oh, so funny. See? Unintended consequences.)

NAMBLA activists are heavily involved in pushing gay marriage and they are waiting in the wings to one day make all of us say to ourselves, "Hey, the Romans, the Greeks...it's not against nature, it's not abnormal, it's not about hurting young males but rather mentoring them into manhood."

Now, we can laugh at that now, but just a few short years ago we were laughing at the absurdity of gay marriage, yet here we are.

WE've reached a point in our democracy where we give primacy to the individual at the expense of our immolation.

Anonymous said...

I left out my last line:

So, if Travolta and others learned to like sexual pleasure regardless of who provided it, I can see pederasty down the line and the elites, including some judges, no doubt many pederasts among them, will try to pass it off as something normal, and they will succeed in time.

Anonymous said...

To be fair, the allegations are hardly proven.
Slightly OT, does any one else think Travolta's stick-on hair looks weird?

Anonymous said...

Much of what’s considered big news is driven by plaintiff attorneys who package scandals for the press. The Catholic Church was a particularly juicy target for sex-abuse lawsuits due to its two-thousand-year history as a centralized, deep-pocketed organization. In contrast, the entertainment industry is dispersed and amorphous.

Oh, fer Chrissakes -

plaintiff attorneys: SCOTS-IRISH
entertainment industry: SCOTS-IRISH
Catholic Church: NOT SCOTS-IRISH

- Q.E.D.

vanderleun said...

"The only reason powerful gay men exploit handsome youths sexually is because society discriminates against gays by not letting them marry."

No kidding? Forehead slap. And all this time I thought it was because they were just a bunch of old smelly perverts with a twisted need to use boys.

Anonymous said...

I always liked Travolta, now I know why.

Anonymous said...

Now, we can laugh at that now, but just a few short years ago we were laughing at the absurdity of gay marriage, yet here we are.
yep.

Anonymous said...

The Catholic Church was a particularly juicy target for sex-abuse lawsuits due to its two-thousand-year history as a centralized, deep-pocketed organization.
Nothing to do with the scot-irish hatred of said institution? Why does the NYT keep running front page stories about it, but as one of your publishers, Taki, pointed out - ignored a larger scandal of 80+ hasidim rabbbis and the publishing of an ad in a yiddish paper, signed by 55 rabbis, calling for je.. oops sorry, scots-irish to kill any scot-irish who 'ratted' on a scots-irish rabbi (for child molesting.

DYork said...

I posted this elsewhere but it's a good insight into the world of boy bands and the Gay Jewish Pedo who ran things. Howard Stern - Rich Cronin Interview Pt. 1

Also interesting to hear the pathetic psychology of a manipulated White Beta male type being toyed with by "actress" Jennifer Love Hewitt.

This guy Cronin had a tragic life. He died shortly after this interview in his mid 30s.

Anonymous said...

Gays have been very clever and very strategic in how they have been able to frame the debates about their "rights". Don't like Gay Marriage? You are a "bigot" denying people their "civil rights". It is a grotesque mischaracterization of the facts and true issues. But it works.

Anonymous said...

@anon 4;43 - abc news had an article 'anti-gay rights bill' passes in North Carolina, complete with a picture of a baptist church sign "marriage is between man and woman"

Anonymous said...


Defendant got to where he is now due to sexual favors he had performed when he was in his Welcome Back, Kotter days; and that Hollywood is controlled by homosexual Jewish men who expect [to dole out?] favors in return for sexual activity. Defendant then went on to say how he had done things in his past that would make most people throw up."

9. "Defendant explained when he started that he wasn't even gay ... Defendant also said that he was smart enough to learn to enjoy it, and when he began to make millions of dollars, that it all became well worth it."



Travolta says that he wasn't gay at the time of Welcome Back Kotter. I suppose years subjecting yourself to sexual abuse can turn you out.

Anonymous said...

Do you want the Grease Lightning or Royale with Cheese, Mr. Weinstein?

Svigor said...

Do you want the Grease Lightning or Royale with Cheese, Mr. Weinstein?

I think he'll take the $5 milkshake.

Anonymous said...

“At least a dozen child-molestation and child-pornography prosecutions since 2000 have involved actors, managers, production assistants and others in the entertainment industry.” That’s not a huge number—one known case per year—but who can begin to guesstimate the number of unknown cases?


dont know why Komment Kontrol didn't let this through, but::
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/12/05/recent-charges-sexual-abuse-children-in-hollywood-just-tip-iceberg-experts-say/
Recent Charges of Sexual Abuse of Children in Hollywood Just Tip of Iceberg, Experts Say

Feldman, 40, himself a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, unflinchingly warned of the world of pedophiles who are drawn to the entertainment industry last August. "I can tell you that the No. 1 problem in Hollywood was and is and always will be pedophilia,” Feldman told ABC’s Nightline. “That's the biggest problem for children in this industry... It's the big secret.”




Don't know why the NYT etc aren't interested.Can't figure it out...

bjdubbs said...

Is Scientology a way for non-Jews to network in Hollywood? It can't hurt if you and JT and TC all know the secret handshake, right? Not much turned up for "Jewish Scientologist."

And who spreads these rumors about leading men? Is it gay men who are jealous? I don't imagine female publicists would want to spread the rumor that a leading hunk is gay.

sheepish theorist said...

Yeah, I think earlier today I was writing a comment here about "triangulation"--d'oh...

TMZ intern said...

re: boy band pedos--even though she's got some... exemplary points, hasn't Jennifer Love H always looked kinda like a pedo cartoon? Face and figure (n.b. she was a pop star in Japan as a child). Only when she blimped out on the cover of Star (or Us Weekly?) did she finally sorta resemble a chick for once.

Anonymous said...

dont know why Komment Kontrol didn't let this through

Dear you: Troubleshoot your Internet connection and shut up about it. If your masterpieces are getting lost in space then just sign up for your own damned blog (or start a Gutenberg/Zenger-style press in Carroll Gardens)

Anonymous said...

If it's caused by a pathogen he could've caught it while giving sexual favors early in his career to advance his career.

e-EL James said...

However, is he innately gay, or is it possible that he "has learned to like it"

It could be both. What turns you queer doesn't necessarily work on me.

Men are susceptible to all kinds of paraphilias and sexual proclivities

Yeah--MEN are so weird that way.

Anonymous said...

Dear you: Troubleshoot your Internet connection and shut up about it.
Caboose a little lose, buttercup?

Anonymous said...

Men are susceptible to all kinds of paraphilias and sexual proclivities
Many men who became gay or child molesters were abused as children, - just like parents who abuse kids were often abused themselves.

There are men who are obviously born 'feminine' but most were 'recruited' as children.

I agree with other posters here that the ultimate 'goal' of the elite is to normalize middle eastern style gay pederasty

Anonymous said...

new NBC comedy about a gay couple raising a child and the surrogate mother that lives with them--oh, so funny. See? Unintended consequences.)
does anyone remember a movie called "Americathon" - from 1979 or so? (meat loaf had a bit part) it was supposed be about a future dystopia - america going bankrupt - so they have a telethon - one of the shows had a child with 'two daddies' - it was supposed be 'funny' because it was so improbable. I remember sitting in the theatre as a 14 year old thinking it was 'silly' well, here we are..

beowulf said...

"I thought just about everyone knew by now he was gay."

No kidding.
Staying Alive (1983)
It's five years later and Tony Manero's Saturday Night Fever is still burning. Now he's strutting toward his biggest challenger yet - making it as a dancer on the Broadway stage.

Anonymous said...

http://voices.yahoo.com/john-travolta-gay-sex-scandal-revelations-6742728.html

"The story alleges that John Travolta is part of Hollywood's "secret" gay sub-culture, a group of powerful gay and bisexual male power players who meet for gay sex at spas."

social net said...

Only Jewish Scientologist I could think of from top of kopf is half: Leah Remini. I'd expect the H'wood tribe rather to look down upon Hubbardism as low-class/tacky, but have no doubt there's a Larry Levy type in the Church somewhere.

Anonymous said...

"Plaintiff lawyer: 'Potential for more accusers in virtually every state' in sex assault suit against John Travolta"

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/05/09/john-travolta-sexual-assault-lawyer-more-accusers-receipts-proof/?intcmp=features#ixzz1uQamYxu1

Anonymous said...

To be fair, the allegations are hardly proven.

Indeed, as the original TSG link portrayed them, they sound like fanfic contrivance. I loved the part about the Chef dude barbecuing nearby. Funniest court filing I've read in years.

beowulf said...

"If it's caused by a pathogen he could've caught it while giving sexual favors early in his career to advance his career."

"Saturday Night Fever" is as good a name for it as any.

Anonymous said...

A lot of prison inmates go in straight and come out gay. I could see John Travolta going in straight, subjecting himself to years of sexual abuse, and then finally deciding that he liked gay sex.

Travolta doesn't have any gay tendecies or a particularly gay physical appearance. So that tends to support the idea that being abused has something to do with his current homosexuality.

I'd bet that Tom Cruise, also not stereotypically gay, was abused too. Especially given his pretty boy looks, it seems like a distinct possibility.

Anonymous said...

To second DYork's comment, this story about Art Garfunkel's cousin is certainly enlightening.

fondatori said...

What strikes me about the Travolta accusation (as well as other similar known and alleged cases) is how homosexuality is passed on by abuse. Men who were abused as boys in turn abuse boys themselves when they are older. I've known individuals that were abused as youngsters and as adults felt themselves compelled to live a homosexual lifestyle even though they didn't really want or like to.

One of the reasons Catholic Bishops responded so poorly was the advice they were given by secular psychologists in the 1970's and 80's when the majority of the abuse was going on (some people may not be aware: the priest sexual abuse was almost exclusively homosexual). Some bishops were told that sexual relationships between older men and boys were healthy and normal - approved really by modern psychology - so not really an abuse problem, more a misunderstanding of a natural relationship. Some bishops bought this and so didn't recognize the abusive behavior as abusive.

We'll never know the link between childhood sexual abuse and adult homosexuality in our lifetimes of course - this sort of knowledge is forbidden to us. There'll be an 80 foot statue of Charles Murray on the Mall first.

Anonymous said...

Travolta is either straight or bi-sexual, but not GAY (homosexual.)

Of this, I am certain.

Anonymous said...

" Some bishops were told that sexual relationships between older men and boys were healthy and normal - approved really by modern psychology - so not really an abuse problem, more a misunderstanding of a natural relationship. Some bishops bought this and so didn't recognize the abusive behavior as abusive."

The Catholic church doesn't even consider sex between a 20 year old man and woman to be healthy and normal. I remember going to a meeting in the Catholic Church for young adults and was told that premarital sex is bad for you. So how could these people consider a priest and 16 year boy doing it to be normal?

Anonymous said...

Poster A: "Men are susceptible to all kinds of paraphilias..."


Response by B: Yeah--MEN are so weird that way.

Poster A: Well, they (a large number) are, and woment aren't.

Fetishes, paraphilias...look at the research.

Anonymous said...

"Travolta doesn't have any gay tendecies or a particularly gay physical appearance. So that tends to support the idea that being abused has something to do with his current homosexuality."

I disagree: JT (not his characters) has a very soft, gentle voice and manner as many gay males do.

The "Pulp Fiction"
killer he played did wonders for his career and stemmed the increasing rumors of his being gay since so many people confuse character with actor playing character.

Geoff Matthews said...

The gay marriage endorsement is Obama's way of injecting the passion back into his campaign.

Anonymous said...

"Travolta is either straight or bi-sexual, but not GAY (homosexual.)

"Of this, I am certain."

________________________________

Really?k That pic of him kissing another man on the lips suggests he shows affection for and feels an intimacy with men, in ways gay men do. If he were just into sexual pleasure, there'd be no intimacy.

Anonymous said...

"Men who were abused as boys in turn abuse boys themselves when they are older"

I believe that has been debunked by research.

Anonymous said...

Lost in the media's love affair with Obama today in announcing his blessings to gay marriage is his utterance that it IS a state's issue.

So, wait...does that mean he's okay with the rejection of it by voters in 33 states?

It must, yet the GLBT community argues gay marriage is a civil right and shouldn't be decided by votes (which confuses me since they pressed for votes in many states--guess they are inconsistent and hypocrites.)

So far I haven't seen a single media outlet report that Arne Duncan, Sec. of Education, who after Biden came out for gay marriage, is himself gay. Ahhhhhh, the media.

Anonymous said...

Did the masseuse not get the memo on this? Is it possible now to make it in Hollywood without doing all the dirty deeds?

Was that gimp scene in Pulp Fiction a multilayered inside joke?

Anonymous said...

"Much of what’s considered big news is driven by plaintiff attorneys who package scandals for the press. The Catholic Church was a particularly juicy target for sex-abuse lawsuits due to its two-thousand-year history as a centralized, deep-pocketed organization. In contrast, the entertainment industry is dispersed and amorphous."

I didn't get this when you first wrote it and I still don't. Aren't the major movie studios extremely wealthy and "deep-pocketed?" I would think Fox or Warner Brothers or Sony is probably MORE wealthy than your average American diocese, especially if we define wealth as easily available cash rather than assets tied up in buildings and art.

Udolpho.com said...

I've noticed that homosexuals relentlessly petition conservative orgs for acceptance. The carrot is the enormous number of votes this 3% of the population can "deliver".

The reality of course is that they'll never deliver anything larger than an asterisk. But I do think homosexuals are overrepresented, particularly on the far right. Homosexuals seem particularly attracted to extreme ideologies and paranoid politics. Richard Scaife, anyone?

Udolpho.com said...

Aren't the major movie studios extremely wealthy and "deep-pocketed?"

The misbehavior is no doubt distributed among a lot of independent producers who are only as wealthy as their cocaine addictions permit.

Whiskey said...

Second the notion that say, News Corp, or Time-Warner, or Disney, particularly Disney, have deeper pockets than say, the Church. By a lot. More like BP type money for their screw-up in the Gulf.

The question is piercing the corporate veil. Getting info (and relationships) between nominally independent players (casting agents, managers, etc.) and their real corporate superiors. This is difficult but not impossible to crack. People get sloppy, leave voice-mails, texts, photos, etc. and then break up with people, or make enemies, or don't keep up payments.

Sooner or later a child actor will sue, and win.

Sidenote: all those gays in acting have made Hollywood dependent on British or Australian male actors for a manly presence. Not good.

Anonymous said...

Scolding the NYT in iSteve's comments can unexpectedly bring tangential but quick results.

Steve Sailer said...

"Richard Scaife, anyone?"

Judging from his two spectacular divorces, he appears to be expensively heterosexual.

Anonymous said...

social net, there are more than a few Jewish Scientologists. Beck Hansen (hipster singer) for one.

Chicago said...

These guys are twisted, no doubt about that. But what about the women hooked up with them, some who even have children by them? Now those must be some real head cases yet they slide through public exposures like this without much notice by anyone except perhaps as sad victims of bad men. They're probably twice as crazy as the guys.

Q said...

The gay marriage endorsement is Obama's way of injecting the passion back into his campaign



For the Democrats, the overriding priority is to make the election be about anything other than the stinker which is the economy. If that means that Obama has to come out in support of cats and dogs having sex together, then that's what he will do.

Anonymous said...

"Men are susceptible to all kinds of paraphilias and sexual proclivities"

Overwhelming majority of the fetish guys remember its start in their boyhood.

"IF the culture of which they are a part promotes it, rewards it."

Your assertion works on women, old single women finding their lesbian selves, the sex toys sales, 'lesbian' kissing in public, the prim and proper ladies of yesterday turning into frivolous sluts of today.

Anonymous said...

I believe that has been debunked by research.

According to some research I got from Anonymous 8:12 PM those debunkings were poorly researched.

celebrity center said...

If Beck is considered Jewish then Harrison Ford must be like a senior rabbi

Anonymous said...

"Men who were abused as boys in turn abuse boys themselves when they are older"

I believe that has been debunked by research.

Every traditional belief about gays has been debunked by someone, typically an advocate of gay rights. Did you know that gay males are actually less promiscuous than than straights? Studies have shown!

The only child molester I've known personally (a distant relative) did say he had been molested at his private school.

Matthew said...

"If Beck is considered Jewish then Harrison Ford must be like a senior rabbi"

I remember reading once that Beck was Jewish. Not that I ever bothered or cared to check up on it, but this is what Wiki has to say: "Beck was born in Los Angeles, California, to David Campbell, a Canadian musician, and Bibbe Hansen, a visual artist and former Warhol "star". His father is of Scottish heritage and his mother is half Norwegian, a quarter Jewish and a quarter Swedish. His maternal grandfather is Al Hansen, a visual collage artist of the Fluxus school of art. Beck's paternal grandfather was a Presbyterian minister."

So, he's like 1/8th Jewish...with the gall to have a Christian clergyman for a grandfather. Iuppose he may be technically Jewish, in the sense that his mother's mother's mother may be the source of his Jewish blood.

Anonymous said...

"I could see John Travolta going in straight, subjecting himself to years of sexual abuse, and then finally deciding that he liked gay sex."

No, you got it wrong. He's using 'gay sex' on other guys as a power trip. When he was a nobody, men with power put him down with 'gay sex'. He felt humiliated and lost his pride and manhood. He didn't like it but he psychologically came to associate 'gay sex' with having power over other men.
So, he's not doing this for pleasure. He's doing it to gain power over other guys. He's lording them and humiliating them like he was humiliated and lorded over.

It's like some abused people become abusive parents. Not because they really enjoy abusing their kids but because having felt the degradation as kids themselves(without power), they later want to have power over their own kids. Those without power who've been humiliated in their youth try later to feel power over others by humiliating them the same way.

Anonymous said...

He's doing it to gain power over other guys. He's lording them and humiliating them like he was humiliated and lorded over.

But if you read some of the sordid details from the masseurs, it seemed to indicate that Travolta was offering to be in a receptive and servicing role. For example, Travolta is said to have said to one of the masseurs, "Come on dude, I'll jerk you off". Travolta also exposed his rear, suggesting he wanted to be receptive.

Anonymous said...

It's understandable why John Travolta or Tom Cruise might want to hide their alleged homsexuality (I have no stake in whether the allegations are true or not, and really couldn't care less). But why is Barry Manilow still hiding it?

And Jim Nabors? He fills a long and distinguished line of Southern men of a certain type who may be gay, or who may just be effeminate or quasi-effeminate asexuals. Men without strong sex drives really do exist.

Anonymous said...

Sidenote: all those gays in acting have made Hollywood dependent on British or Australian male actors for a manly presence. Not good.

Interesting point. Jason Statham, Christian Bale, Hugh Jackman. Why is that only Brits and Australians are truly masculine in movies these days? And without the stupid machismo that male American actors are known for. I've also noticed that British and Australian actresses tend to be more feminine than the boyish, flat-chested women Hollywood insists we love and adore.

Londoner said...

I mentioned this yesterday. Others to consider are Russell Crowe, Guy Pearce, Richard Armitage, Gerard Butler, Heath Ledger (RIP) and Sam Worthington. Seems that not having to do whatever it is that young American actors have to do really can help you make it in Hollywood.

Steve Sailer said...

Don't get too carried away about Hugh Jackman's adamantine masculinity.

Anonymous said...

I agree with other posters here that the ultimate 'goal' of the elite is to normalize middle eastern style gay pederasty

Bravo, smoothly done!

Anonymous said...

Why is that only Brits and Australians are truly masculine in movies these days?

Lots of Brits & Aussies as US troops in Black Hawk Down.

Lots of Brits as US soldiers in Band of Brothers also (to be fair, that was made in the UK)

Anonymous said...

Obama's new gay marriage support has nothing to do with restoring the passion and everything to do with prying the withheld cash from the aforementioned gay Hollywood Jews.

It's also saying to the gay-hating black community that he expects them to vote for him no matter what.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if this story will get the 5 minute hate that Mel Gibson's recent rant got? Holding my breath...

bentillman said...

According to some research I got from Anonymous 8:12 PM those debunkings were poorly researched.

Alsø alsø wik....

Aging Hag said...

Guess my previous comment didn't get thru Komment Kontrol so I'll try again.

Regarding the Jewish pedo problem, guffaw. Travolta's breakthrough part was in SATURDAY NITE FEVER produced by Robert Stigwood. Gentile. Pederast.

Get the point?

I also would not be too convinced of Heath Ledger's 100% heterosexuality. JMO.

Anonymous said...

The Obama El-Foldo

http://freebeacon.com/gay-for-pay/

CamelCaseRob said...

Anonymous at 5:31PM - I think you are absolutely wrong about the Left ever endorsing pederasty. The Left has a very basic belief in choice and consent and further believe that minors (and animals) don't have the capacity to make choices or give consent in any meaningful sense. They will never go where you fear they will go.

CamelCaseRob said...

Is what Travolta is accused of doing "abuse"? It sounds more like sexual assault to me.

Anonymous said...

"But if you read some of the sordid details from the masseurs, it seemed to indicate that Travolta was offering to be in a receptive and servicing role."

In that case, he was trying to relive the humiliation either as nostalgia or in knowledge that he has control over it, which also makes it a power trip.
Imagine some black guy wanting to play slave just so he can feel the ersatz humiliation as justification for his rage and power. History, first time as tragedy, second time as comedy.

Anonymous said...

Brits/Aussies in Blackhawk Down:

Ewan McGregor (Scottish)
Eric Bana (Aussie)
Ewen Bremner (Scottish)
Hugh Dancy (English)
Ioan Gruffud (Welsh)
Jason Isaacs (English)
Orlando Bloom (English)

All in pretty major roles.

Also:
Kim Coates (Cannuck)
Zeljko Ivanek (Slovenian)
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Danish) (he now plays Jaime Lannister in Game of Thrones; played one of the Medal of Honor recipients in BHD)

I think the real issue isn't that American actors are less masculine nowadays, but that Hollywood has become truly international in scope. Generally speaking, Englishmen are not often held up as exemplars of testosterone-fueled masculinity. In addition, BHD was filmed in (iirc) Morroco.

That said, it really was disconcerting watching the "Making of..." video on the Blackhawk Down DVD, listening to all the foreign accents of men who played completely convincing Americans. But I loved Damian Lewis in Band of Brothers.

Anonymous said...

Okay now I am going to throw up.

KGB Agent said...

When homosexuals threaten or cajole politicians with the number of votes they can deliver, they aren't talking about votes from homosexuals themselves. They mean the votes of all the nice SWPLers for whom life is a never ending struggle to prove that they are smarter and more tolerant than other White People. What better way to do that than loudly proclaiming homosexuality is the bestest thing ever and that those who oppose same-sex marriage are more evil than Hitler, Palpatine, and Sauron rolled into one?

Anonymous said...

Travolta also exposed his rear, suggesting he wanted to be receptive.
didn't need that imagery at lunchtime, thank you.

Anonymous said...

I think the real issue isn't that American actors are less masculine nowadays, but that Hollywood has become truly international in scope. Generally speaking, Englishmen are not often held up as exemplars of testosterone-fueled masculinity. In addition, BHD was filmed in (iirc) Morroco.

The classic "All-American" look they use in movies is an Anglo-Celtic/British type look that also exists in the British Isles, Australia, NZ, etc.

So there are sources outside of the US for this look. It also may be that this look has declined in the US due to demographic decline and mixing with non-Anglo-Celtic/British Americans.

Anonymous said...

"...They will never go where you fear they will go...."

Oh I don't know about that. Things have a way of just happening, events take on a life all on their own.

Look at the ORIGINAL civil 'rights' act in 1964. Look at how things are now. Most fair minded people then, thought that it would just mean that black people in Alabama would no longer be kept from being able to vote and that humiliating, mean-spirited Jim Crow stuff like separate water fountains and sitting at the back of the bus would be ended. WE WERE VERY WRONG.

Dahlia said...

Paging Greg Cochran, your attention is needed at this thread.

I'm just going to throw this out there.

Travolta's late son was autistic.
About two months ago, I was talking with a woman who had a daughter and the daughter was much like me: she was highly intelligent, but normal (no Asperger's) and she married young.
Her husband sounded like he may have Asperger's, but if so, it was slight.
My husband scored a 17 on Cohen's face recognition test, and he very much has Asperger's.

Out of my six children, only two have any signs of Asperger's, and not to the extent of my husband's. About what you would expect, especially for people who have lived cleanly.

This woman? Her only two children both came out with severe autism. They will be dependent on her for the rest of her life.

Her husband abandoned them and revealed himself to be a flaming homosexual (his parents were mega-wealthy and were way too nice, given the class difference, during his courtship of her).

I don't believe in coincidences and the odds here are just phenomenal. So yes, I absolutely believe homosexuality is caused by germs and also that germs may play a part in autism.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Travolta was testing out some theory in dianetics.

Anonymous said...

It also may be that this look has declined in the US due to demographic decline and mixing with non-Anglo-Celtic/British Americans.

There are over 300 million people in this country, so I seriously doubt it's too hard to find homegrown Anglo-looking actors. Casting foreign actors is obviously a way for Hollywood to hook more foreign audiences, get foreign media to cover the movies, etc. The international box office is much more important to Hollywood now than it was 30 or 40 years ago.

Anonymous said...

"I wonder if this story will get the 5 minute hate that Mel Gibson's recent rant got?"

JEWS START ALL GAY BEHAVIOR!!!

Matthew said...

"They [the Left] will never go where you fear they will go."

Until they do. Because that's the nature of a "progressive" - the bold, glorious future is always just over the horizon, just out of sight.

As 1:29 PM notes, "civil rights" was never, ever supposed to mean quotas, set-asides, bogus humongo lawsuits, firing Nobel Prize-winning scientisits for making impolitic statements, and much of what else we've seen.

"Immigration reform" was never supposed to mean the complete remake of this nation's ethnic identity.

Unintended consequences, or intentional deceit? Given the fact that Celler and Kennedy never exhibited any remorse for the consequences of their policies, I'm going with the latter.

"The classic "All-American" look they use in movies is an Anglo-Celtic/British type look that also exists in the British Isles, Australia, NZ, etc."

Interesting point. Also, the military ain't what it was during WW2, when every squad in every movie (and possibly real life) had to include an Italian, a Southerner, a Jew, and a Midwestern American. The all-volunteer force has meant a shift to a white population in the military that is somewhat less diverse. I read the book "Black Hawk Down," and the white Deltas, Night Stalkers and Army Rangers were overwhelmingly of British stock. Those who weren't were mostly our German cousins.

Anonymous said...

Maybe terms like 'rape' and 'sexual abuse' will go the way of 'sodomy'.

Maybe what Hollywood bosses did to Travolta was 'enforce love', just like affirmative action is an 'enforcement of justice'.

Since some Jewish men aren't as sexually attractive as goy guys, life is unfair, you see. So, they need to use money and affirmative sexual action in order to ensure that sexual pleasure is spread around more fairly.

Anonymous said...

They will never go where you fear they will go.
umm just a few years ago no one would have thought gay marriage was even up for consideration - and you are wrong the left is pushing to lower the age of consent in all western countries and one scots irish psychologist wants it to be 11 or 12.

Anonymous said...

Maybe terms like 'rape' and 'sexual abuse' will go the way of 'sodomy'.

Not as long as there are feminists around.

Propeller Island said...

The classic "All-American" look they use in movies is an Anglo-Celtic/British type look that also exists in the British Isles, Australia, NZ, etc.

So there are sources outside of the US for this look. It also may be that this look has declined in the US due to demographic decline and mixing with non-Anglo-Celtic/British Americans.


So how would you explain something like the Prince of Persia movie? An all-British cast who look like Middle-Easterners. Couldn't they find that look here?

Me, I think it's the good old-fashioned outsourcing.

Matthew said...

"So how would you explain something like the Prince of Persia movie? An all-British cast who look like Middle-Easterners. Couldn't they find that look here?"

Jake Gyllenhaal is American. Also, Prince of Persia director Mike Newell is English, as is Sir Ridley Soctt, director of Blackhawk Down. Perhaps a case of casting who you know.

The Brits seem to have long been proportionally better at acting than Americans. Perhaps it's the necessarily more urban culture. Six of the last 22 Best Actor Oscars have gone to Brits or Aussies (but only 13 of the last 62, so the pace has picked up a bit).

Svigor said...

Anonymous at 5:31PM - I think you are absolutely wrong about the Left ever endorsing pederasty. The Left has a very basic belief in choice and consent and further believe that minors (and animals) don't have the capacity to make choices or give consent in any meaningful sense. They will never go where you fear they will go

Libeerals are just fine with taking away Freedom of Association, one of the most, if not the most, fundamental Right. They're gun-grabbers, too. And speech-suppressors.

Anonymous said...

Pathogen theory is holding strong. Travolta said he didn't used be gay - we have to take him at his word.

I think that the virus affects the person profoundly if it is acquired in infancy, and less dramatically if infected later in life - which might explain bisexuality.

The genetic argument is really challenged by the fact that identical twins don't have identical sexualities. Maybe a viral lode lives in the birth canal or on the vagina. The first born might pick it up and there might not be enough left to infect the second.

Anonymous said...

The LEFT will go for anything that undermines what society considers the "norm."

Don'tcha get it? Being a "progressive" means adopting whatever flies in the face of those who aren't "progressive."

It stems from having been unpopular, unattracive, different in any number of ways and they like anything that "gets back at" those they see as "normal" although they'd never use that word for it suggests they themselves are not normal.

Anonymous said...

Maybe a viral lode lives in the birth canal or on the vagina.

It might also live in the anus. Homosexuality seems to correlate with heterosexual sodomy and loose sexual morality as well.

Anonymous said...

He must be vegan since he tosses so much salad.

Anonymous said...

Brits/Aussies in BHD.

You missed Matthew Marsden (English). He plays the Ranger with his arm in a plaster cast.

Apart from Ewan McGregor none of the Brits in BHD were big name actors at the time, not unknown but not stars. Hard to imagine their presence being a massive pull amongst the general audience in the UK. To more nerdy film fans maybe.

Anonymous said...

The genetic argument is really challenged by the fact that identical twins don't have identical sexualities. Maybe a viral lode lives in the birth canal or on the vagina. The first born might pick it up and there might not be enough left to infect the second.

Should be fairly easy to research that - are first born twins (identical or not) more likely to turn out gay?

Anonymous said...

"Defendant then went on to say how he had done things in his past that would make most people throw up." 

He must have been straight once; he is aware his behavior was repulsive.

Since his career is kaput, he should volunteer as a medical case study. He should write a tell all to fund his retirement. When he stars in Mel Gibson's movie version, even the Elite might be hard pressed to suppress it.

Anonymous said...

Rotten Tomatoes has exactly one audience review of Moment by Moment; it is pretty funny.

Anonymous said...

"The Left has a very basic belief in choice and consent and further believe that minors (and animals) don't have the capacity to make choices or give consent in any meaningful sense. "

and also women in inebriated state. Which makes one wonder, how do they think that the state of lust, which is perhaps normal..err not mentally challenged? humankind's most cognitively challenged state, somehow allows for meaningful consent?

"They will never go where you fear they will go. "

Once enough women are laid out in jails for having sex with their minor students, gays will have ample support.
There will be some concern about old men using the same laws for having young girls, but pretty sure that some workaround will be found for that.

rob said...

John Travolta shot to fame playing a really attractive guy who really, really liked disco dancing. Y'all think he was straight cuz why?

Anonymous said...

"rob said...
John Travolta shot to fame playing a really attractive guy who really, really liked disco dancing. Y'all think he was straight cuz why?"

Well said. ROTFLMAO