April 28, 2012

White Male Privilege

From the Daily Dot:
Justin Anthony Knapp. 
The bearded and bespectacled former pizza delivery guy from Indianapolis, Indiana is a pretty extraordinary wikipedian. Last week, Knapp, 30, became the first person on the site to reach 1 million edits. He’s done it by spending “several hours” every day on the site. Knapp’s never received a cent of pay from Wikipedia and is currently unemployed.

205 comments:

1 – 200 of 205   Newer›   Newest»
Olave d'Estienne said...

He should put it on his resume. Seriously.

Anonymous said...

I guess that answers the question "doesn't he have anything better to do?"

I've long been fascinated by how much people will devote with no other recompense to be the king of some online domain. I'll google search a car problem and find the answer given in a forum by someone with 15,000 posts who's obviously *the guy* around there.

Even if you're the biggest online king, you're still only an online king, though...

Anonymous said...

He should shave his face and leave all hair currently on neck.

Semi-employed White Guy said...

He is an unemployed pizza delivery guy. How do you get to be an unemployed pizza delivery guy? Editing Wikipedia entries while driving? Those places never stop hiring drivers.

Podsnap said...

Hope he gets a root out of the article....

pat said...

I'm going to shave off my beard immediately.

Albertosaurus

Glossy said...

Nerds have created the Wikipedia, but the Wikipedia has been bad for nerds. It devalues knowing stuff. Anyone can now quickly look up almost anything. One of nerds' advantages, causes for showing off, claims to indispensability - knowing obscure, but sometimes useful info - has been diminished.

The nerds who edit the Wikipedia are like women who appear in porn - akin to strikebreakers, aka scabs.

Anonymous said...

I will think of him every time I wiki something. A true guardian of Western Civilization. I was disappointed by the shallow interview. I'm going to wiki him now.

Anonymous said...

Jimmy Wales has declared April 20th as Justin Knapp day. I will celebrate. Why does that day sound familiar?

Anonymous said...

Kinda obvious even to a 5 year old that women need equality in the facial hair department. Bearded guys continue the wikipedia domination and keep the women fearful of joining in.
While women are conditioned by the patriarchal beauty standards to remove even the tiniest of strands from their face.
And the stench of betadom carries over the fibre cables and turns off women from reaching their wikipedia editing potential.

Anyway, white men need self-serving generals and not ambitionless world-serving sages. Invectives and jokes at their own expense.

Assistant Village Idiot said...

More women should be allowed to work for free for Wikipedia.

Anonymous said...

This guy is a loser obviously but in a weird way he illustrates why Western Civilization has come to dominate the world. The kind of smart, inquisitive, patient but relentless commitment to an intellectual pursuit he exhibited is something common in White and Asian societies but almost non existent in the rest of the world.

Anonymous said...

Jimmy Wales' tweets are a colossal bore. I don't expect a follow up to Wikipedia- he got lucky. Even his tribute to Knapp comes across as the kind of middle management tripe delivered upon presenting an Outstanding Achievement Award to an administrative assistant.

tanabear said...

Olave: "He should put it on his resume. Seriously."

But not on his dating profile.

beowulf said...

"He should put it on his resume. Seriously."

Yeah that's just Pizza Hut is looking for in its drivers.

josh said...

Has he pretended to be a lesbian? I think he would make a damn good pretend lesbian! White men are the WD-40 of civilization:We keep things going. (As opposed to keeping things real.)

Anonymous said...

Ha Steve, you missed the most interesting part of the interview, right at the end:

"My mother got a call from a journalist with an exchange that went something like this:

- 'Hello.'
'Is Justin Knapp available?'
- 'No, but I'm his mother.'
'Is your son in his late 20s/early 30s?'
- 'Yes.'
'Is he heavy-set?'
- 'Yes.'
'Are you proud of him?'
- '...Yes.'
'Did you know about his achievements on Wikipedia?'
- 'What's Wikipedia?'

So then I had to explain it to her."

Dennis Dale said...

Thank you White Guys. Maybe someday the rest of us can pitch in and pull our fair share. In the meantime at least, we'll stop bitching and whining about how you're keeping all the fun to yourselves. Keep up the good work!

Sorry; I occasionally like to imagine a world without vanity, bigotry and guile.

Anonymous said...

We need the statistics on how many edit wars he has gotten into, and perhaps what his position on the anime crucifixion debacle that happened eariler in order to gauge his contribution in its entirety.

Anonymous said...

Folks like this privileged white male are both a curse and a blessing of Wikipedia. 90% of the time I am grateful to them for dredging all that info and putting it together and 10% of the time I wish that people who have no idea about the subject would just live it alone and not write utter falsehoods.

How do these guys even survive? Mother still pays for everything?

Auntie Analogue said...

Wouldn't you expect that the 'Jeopardy!' producers would go out of their way to invite Justin Knapp to appear as a contestant?


After all, even the superlative all-time 'Jeopardy!' champion Ken Jennings never gave the correct questions to a MILLION clues.

Udolpho.com said...

Wikipedia is an MMORPG for Aspergers sufferers.

Anonymous said...

Guys like this belong to a race all their own.

Anonymous said...

Wibbitts.

Anonymous said...

What is wikipedia like in other languages? Do they have people doing this on the Spanish wikipedia? Do they fight over using Vosotros? Is there a neckbearded Mexican somewhere with 90000 edits in Spanish?

I assume they are not simply translating from English. The other wikipedias most likely have their own culture just like the English one.

Marlowe said...

Neal Stephenson figured it out 20 years ago when he finished Snow Crash. The world's greatest hacker who helped to design the architecture of the futuristic Internet featured in the story delivers pizza and lives in a storage unit complex turned favela with a Russian punk guitarist and hundreds of immigrants. In the metaverse he has superuser privileges; down on planet earth he is a nobody.

ragle gumm said...

The interview didn't make him look as bad as I'd hoped. When he blabs about "actualizing his values" it sounds as if he's just feeding the desired copy this Austin-based web site wants to hear. Wikis are, on the one hand, worthless, but also no skin off my back and as with this guy most of their "editors" must accept on some level that it's nothing more than their personal deranged idea of leisure.

Anonymous said...

Although they are possibly the world's most despised, damned and discriminated against demographic, historically it has been white males who were responsible for the vast bulk of technological and scientfic advances that have enabled 7 billion humans to live on this planet with a degree of comfort above that beasts of the field enjoy.
It was guys like Knapp beavering away long uncompensated lonely hours in workshops and laboratories somewhere that created the modern world.
If only Knapp could focus his energy on a possibly more useful project.

Maya said...

"Sorry; I occasionally like to imagine a world without vanity, bigotry and guile."

Well, don't imagine it completely without vanity. The top 10 most gorgeous creatures I've ever encountered had all been Caucasian men. They also place very well within the top 50, and the top 100. The world would be a bleaker place if all male vanity would vanish.

Anonymous said...

"The top 10 most gorgeous creatures I've ever encountered had all been Caucasian men" -- spoken like a true Knapp

Maya said...

I just have to ask, what's wrong with him? Is he extremely unlucky or suffering from a debilitating disorder? This guy is, obviously, literate, computer literate, very well read and can communicate effectively in writing, at least. What's he doing delivering pizza and unemployed.

I bet he has a degree. If he doesn't, then he could earn one in his sleep, a guy like that. He could do it on the cheap at some local no-name state school. With BA, he could go teach ESL in Asia, discover a new country, try a new language, drink cheap alcohol while dating a bunch of girls who'd love him simply because he is white. Maybe that's not ideal, but most young men would find that scenario preferable to his current life. There's seasonal work in IT at all the resorts, and it's usually performed by guys like him. These aren't dream jobs, and they are temporary, but in the absence of a better gig, these seasonal jobs provide an opportunity to make some money, travel, engage in the activities of the resort and meet new friends/girls.

I think we are staring into the face of depression here. It would also explain his appearance.

Anonymous said...

Tying a few of Steve's recent posts together, check this out from Knapp's Wiki Talk page:


http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2005/gaspd314.doc.htm

JUSTIN ANTHONY KNAPP, advocating for the Saharawi people, said Morocco had habitually resisted mediation. When the conflict had begun, the United Nations had essentially been complacent and prior to the formation of MINURSO, the armed conflict had continued for a decade. Since the ceasefire, the United Nations had been complicit in the continued occupation. But being neutral was, in reality, to be pro-Moroccan and the United Nations should consider options other than mediation. Article 22 of the Charter stated that the Security Council might call upon the parties to seek arbitration or a binding legal settlement. The General Assembly could denounce the occupation, or the involved parties could call upon Morocco to respect the findings of the International Court of Justice.

He said that for the United Nations to retain its credibility, it must not acquiesce to the demands of the occupier. Rather, it must reward the nobility, dignity and pacifism of the Saharawi, a humble nation looking to introduce democracy into a region where it was a rarity. The Saharawi were one of the most literate and well-educated nations in Africa and they had consistently respected the mediation process. The United Nations had been willing to denounce Israel as an occupier, and to make peace in war-torn nations. Why not in the Sahara?


LOL. Exactly as Steve discussed here:
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2012/04/tuareg-revolt-in-mali.html

In any conflict, the blacker and/or more "oppressed" (but I repeat myself) group is by default the good guy. The Sahrawi are part black (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahrawi_people) and thus better than Moroccans, who are veritable Slobodan Milosevics in their relative whiteness.

Anonymous said...

Keep reading down to the bottom of Knapp's profile. You will see that he is a supporter of "Christian Communism" and lists Western Sahara and Western Papua under "things that matter" as his closing note. Mencius Moldbug, please call your office.

The real problem with Wikipedia is not of course that too many males edit it. It's that too many leftists edit it, as whites on the right are disproportionately more likely to have jobs and probably less likely to be interested in impractical things. This means the left is defining history.

Matthew said...

"Nerds have created the Wikipedia, but the Wikipedia has been bad for nerds. It devalues knowing stuff. Anyone can now quickly look up almost anything."

Never. It's just as important to know that there's something to know.

You cannot write without a base of knowledge, you cannot think without a base of knowledge, you cannot measure someone's credibility without a base of knowledge, and you cannot have an animated conversation about anything without a base of knowledge.

Wikipedia is one way to acquire knowledge, but it doesn't free you from the need to be knowledgeable.

"The nerds who edit the Wikipedia are like women who appear in porn - akin to strikebreakers, aka scabs."

If vicarious sex is preferable to the real thing, I suppose they are. Except in prison, vicarious sex is never preferable to the real thing.

Get over porn. Real women are so much better - stressful and infuriating and demanding, at times, but better.

ray said...

that would be correct, these are the guys who maintained and advanced your nation and civilization

after fifty years of legal disenfranchisement and ideo-political mass hatred, the willingness of these bedrocks of culture are -- as the kulture so fervently wishes -- gradually undergoing extermination

(gee no, i sure cant figger out why The Economy isnt doing well! after all, we did the korrect thing and replaced the Evil White Males with the Good Females and the Even Gooder De Colores!

out with The Bad and in with The Good . . . hm why isnt Our Brilliant Plan working?

doubtless we're on the cusp of a Great Civilizational Rebound as a result of destroying masculinity in the west ... just as soon as The Grrlz take over everything

guys like Knapp arent gonna keep supporting forever a western civ that makes no secret of despising them

alonzo portfolio said...

Knapp looks like a lot of the early Apple employees.

Anonymous said...

Why doesn't he have a job? Maybe, like others have implied on here, it's because he's obsessed with doing Wiki entries.

However, my wife is from a third-world country and made a different suggestion after I told her about this guy. She says, "White people are known for inventing and creating. Some local little job would not be good for him. I am happy he is creating and doing something great with his life."

Maya said...

"Although they are possibly the world's most despised, damned and discriminated against demographic, historically it has been white males who were responsible for the vast bulk of technological and scientfic advances that have enabled 7 billion humans to live on this planet with a degree of comfort above that beasts of the field enjoy."

I wouldn't speak for the world, if I were you. Have you ever traveled as a white man? I've seen (and experienced) white people getting their flights upgraded to business class from coach on several occasions, and men, in general, get more respect than women over there. I'm told that in Latin America, white men are looked upon rather favorably as well. Of course, in Eastern Europe, white men are native and very much in charge. I never got a hint of an impression that they were being shamed or feeling embarrassed about their race or gender.

I think the whole Western campaign against the white men has been created by the white men themselves as a sort of a polite, elitist, good-will gesture. It's similar to how models and lead-caliber actresses like to promote self-esteem events at girl camps, or tell journalists that they think everyone is beautiful, and in fact, THEY prefer a more exotic type of beauty than their own. It also makes me think of how middle class kids at school would talk about their Down's Syndrome siblings. They'd say something like, "I think we are both talented in our own ways. In fact, I often feel like Johnny is more sensitive, intuitive and emotionally intelligent than me...".

Meanwhile, even as the public had been trained to chant mantras against the white men, they still can't help but fawn over them on a daily bases. I remember I was asked to draw a hero in middle school, as a part of some sort of a study. The teacher then talked to us kids about our biases because everyone happened to draw a guy. I think out of about 30 kids, a couple of us drew an Asian Bruce Lee type of a person, and the rest of the heroes were white. We had similar results when asked to draw a scientist (in the same experiment). This time, everyone drew a white guy. I did something like that for my own benefit with my own students, while they were waiting to be picked up on a canceled snow day, with very similar results. About a fifth of them drew a black person, and the rest drew someone white, even though the students were all black. All the drawings depicted men. You see, people, even very young people, are still capable of observing the world around them, even when taught the opposite of what they observe.

Auntie Analogue said...

My dear, departed Dad habituated a wonderful Depression-era expression to the bearded: "How are you fixed for blades, Buddy?"


What gets my goat about the vast depth and breadth of knowledge volunteered to the internet is that most of it is 'Jeopardy!' trivia. In case no one else has noticed, in this Age of the Specialist Technocrat, the old, gracious, generous ideal of the well-rounded Renaissance Man lost out long ago: Knapp is peddling goods for which there is no employment market - not even in education, which has stooped to become nothing more than "child-centered" adolescent-level self-esteem propagandizing that excludes and demonizes white men (especially all those, you knowm, "dead white men") and that yields "graduates" marinated in MCF Fairytale groupthink.

Look at what now passes in Media-Pravda (including the Low Rent fare on YouTube) as "entertainment" and you will find nothing of the Renaissance ideal, nothing that qualifies as deep thinking or for what used to be prized as witty, scintillating repartée: nearly all of what is now mistaken to be "entertainment" is hermetically self-referential.

Also, in case you hadn't noticed, Wikipedia entries are policed-edited by the world's most p.c. white male Eloi subscribers to the Multi-Culti Diversity Fairytale Narrative. Wiki's historical entries are jam-packed with scarcely subtle indictments of the white man's (down to each individual white male subject's) racism, colonialism, slave-owning, and ineradicable "white privilege" mingled cheek-by-jowl with equally unstubtle promotions of and paeans to the Great Equal Worth of All Cultures, so long as those cultures are not white-European. Wikipedia's entries are nothing more than the past viewed through the distorted and distorting lens of the MCD Fairytale - Orwell was dead-to-nuts right about "an orthodoxy, a body of ideas...." Yet today's supposedly Great Minds and Powerful Smart People preen themselves on displaying quite ostentatiously that they remain unable to anticipate the horrendous consequences of their peculiar orthodoxy de jour, and so they insist upon continuing "pedal to the metal" for the MCD Fairytale.

It is no accident that we have nowadays not one massively acclaimed and renowned, broad, deep intellect that can come close to measuring up to that of Winston Churchill. Ah, but measuring is so, you know, "white" - hence the
"racial bias" unextirpable from firefighter and police examinations.

The entire vast perfervid enthusiasm and effort devoted to the (of course, impossible) attainment of the MCD Fairytale's Puritopia is the deplorable, delusionally contrived, and embarrassingly tiny sum of our time's smallest, most patheically petty, timorous, and most closed minds. We now live under an anti-intellectualism whose parrots mistake to pride themselves on their self-incapacitation to see the forest for the trees. Mr. Knapp being merely the latest exemplar of this anti-breed to have backed his pizza deliveryman credentials into the limelight of his fifteen minutes of fame.

Truth said...

What a dumbshit.

"Well, don't imagine it completely without vanity. The top 10 most gorgeous creatures I've ever encountered had all been Caucasian men."

Well when I come to Thanksgiving dinner, that will change.

Anonymous said...

If only Knapp could focus his energy on a possibly more useful project.

Like having children?

Seriously - even as recently as about 50 years ago, nerds like this could still expect to get married and have children.

But nowadays?

Cue Whiskey & Roissy/Heartiste...

Anonymous said...

This guy is a loser obviously but in a weird way he illustrates why Western Civilization has come to dominate the world.

Three words: labor of love.

The kind of smart, inquisitive, patient but relentless commitment to an intellectual pursuit he exhibited is something common in White and Asian societies but almost non existent in the rest of the world.

Especially white societies and the wealthier Asian ones such as Japan.

Anonymous said...

Dennis Dale:

Sorry; I occasionally like to imagine a world without vanity, bigotry and guile.

Aspie/Neanderthal world?

SFG said...

Eh, 500 years ago he would have been a monk copying manuscripts. You have people like this in every place (at least in Europe) and time period...

Anonymous said...

"Although they are possibly the world's most despised, damned and discriminated against demographic, historically it has been white males who were responsible for the vast bulk of technological and scientfic advances that have enabled 7 billion humans to live on this planet with a degree of comfort above that beasts of the field enjoy."

But here's the paradox. White males(at least the geniuses and enterprising among them), by having created a world of plenty--at least in Western nations--freed most people from 'want' of basic necessities, and so most white people are more into stuff that excites than stuff that they need. People are animals after all, and just like animals, once basic needs are met, humans want fun, thrilling, orgasmic, and etc. stuff.
For example, an alarm clock, toothpaste, shampoo, toilet, electrical wires, gas oven, and etc are more necessary for good life than rap music, internet porn, and sports. But even though we NEED all the many stuff created by white males, we don't think much about them because they are utilitarian than sensual in nature; they don't engage our emotions or senses. I mean concrete has done wonders for civilization, but who gets all excited about a sack of concrete or cement?
Everyday, we wake up, use soap and clean water, and use oven to cook stuff--all thanks to the genius of white males--, but they don't engage our imagination, desire, thrill, and excitement. So, while tons of stuff that white guys made are very useful to us as modern people, the eternal-animal inside us still looks for thrills. Since most whites have been liberated from 'want' by white man's technology, most whites are looking for orgasmic pleasures, and in this competition, Negroes beat whites. Negroes are better at sports, sing louder and deeper, are more muscled, more 'charismatic', more commanding-voiced, more masculine, and etc.

In the past, most white people were poor and their minds were on survival; so, their minds were more on survival than thrill. Today, most white people are well-fed and don't have to worry about survival; and so they go lookng for thrills... and they find more of it from Negroes.

Of course, there's the problem of black violence and crime, but whites(the feminine race relative to blacks) are so obsessed with black masterfulness that they can't shake their thrill-addiction to blackkness. It's like feminists constantly remind the sisterhood all about male violence against women--and it's true that most sexual violence is male on female among all races and in all nations--, but women are still attracted to men because they seek orgasmic thrill by submitting to men. So, women risk male violence because they are excited by manhood and sexual thrills. It's a biological addiction. Just like junkies take risks just to get another high, women take risks with men cuz they just gotta have that orgasm.

Similarly, though the white nationalists warns white people of black violence(just like feminists warn women of male violence), the 'female' white race is just too much in love with the 'male' black race. White girls are crazy about BIG muscled Negroes, and white boys have 'male orgasms' when they watch the feats of black athletes. I remember going to a bar when the Bulls were playing for the championship. Whenever Jordan slammed a dunk, white boys in the bar would go out of their minds, as if they were having orgasms by submitting to the superior Negro. It's like Chris Matthews getting thrills up his legs from listening to Obama talk. Now, Obama is, as black males go, rather dweeby. But if Obama has such effect on white boys, imagine what effect real tough Negro dudes have. White race is thus finished.

So, white male genius paved the way for white addiction to the funkier and more thrilling black race.

Dr Van Nostrand said...

Although they(white males) are possibly the world's most despised, damned and discriminated against demographic, "

Thats quite a statement!Do you need any help carrying that cross?
As for the discriminated ,well Asian women do certainly discriminate in your favor, but I dont see too many white men complaining about that!Even though it leaves Asian men ahem despised and damned....

I wont mock play an imaginary violin too much but I will say this when in doubt about your whiteness, travel abroad say to the Middle East where British janitors and other mediocrities are given middle management positions and salaries for doing the same jobs their vastly underpaid Indian and Pakistanis underlings recieve.

as for your other points...
"historically it has been white males who were responsible for the vast bulk of technological and scientfic advances that have enabled 7 billion humans to live on this planet with a degree of comfort above that beasts of the field enjoy."

Somehow in the pre industrial era, Arabs,Chinese and Indians managed to eke out an existence quite removed from the beasts of the field without the help of white men while most whites thought it was unhealthy to bathe and fought over relics of dead saints.

candid_observer said...

A million edits?

If one assumes he's been at it for 10 years, 365 days a year, 10 hrs a day, that's 27 edits per hour.

What can that even mean? He changes 27 non-contiguous words per hour? And over how many topics? Sounds like he was gaming for this result, not a natural product of editing, however tireless.

Anonymous said...

Neal Stephenson figured it out 20 years ago when he finished Snow Crash. The world's greatest hacker who helped to design the architecture of the futuristic Internet featured in the story delivers pizza and lives in a storage unit complex turned favela with a Russian punk guitarist and hundreds of immigrants. In the metaverse he has superuser privileges; down on planet earth he is a nobody.

Except really good hackers can make serious money. Obsessive Wikipedia editing is not comparable to elite hacker skills. It's an insult to hackers.

Anonymous said...

It was guys like Knapp beavering away long uncompensated lonely hours in workshops and laboratories somewhere that created the modern world.

The guys like Knapp were monks who transcribed copies of books and stuff. They were useful in their own way of course, preserving and transmitting knowledge. But they weren't the same as inventors and the like. It's an insult to the great inventors to compare them to someone like Knapp.

eh said...

So he used to get paid for delivering pizzas, and now he doesn't get paid for editing Wikipedia. How smart could he be?

Marlowe said...

Kinda obvious even to a 5 year old that women need equality in the facial hair department. -- Anon.

Dwarven women also have beards.

Anonymous said...

"More women should be allowed to work for free for Wikipedia."

Threadwinner

Anonymous said...

"Also, in case you hadn't noticed, Wikipedia entries are policed-edited by the world's most p.c. white male Eloi subscribers to the Multi-Culti Diversity Fairytale Narrative."

Just looked up Eloi in Wikipedia. Wikipedia, despite its flaws, helped me understand you - and pretty damned quickly.

That's how I often use it.

Some examples from wiki would help support your point. Did you try to edit anything? That's how it works.

Anonymous said...

"Like having children?"

Modern wives would demand too much of his time for him to carry on with his passion. Jewish women have traditionally selected men like this, taking pride in supporting an intellectual undertaking, while doing all the child rearing. I doubt that still hold true, but it was a very successful model.

Anonymous said...

Back in the days before the income tax, this is the kind of thing that the bookish offspring of the moderately wealthy might devote their lives to. It's a real service.

Anonymous said...

Sad in another time he would have a wife and family. Sure he is no woman's dream but that is part of the problem. In another time he wouldn't be such a leftist drip. He would have intelligent if ugly children who would be productive citizens. Thanks feminism!

Marlowe said...

She pulled down racial statistics on beard growth. American Indians didn't grow beards. Asian kids hardly did, Africans were a special case because daily shaving gave them a painful skin condition. "The ability to grow heavy, full beards as a matter of choice appears to be a privilege accorded by nature solely to white males," she wrote.

Alarm bells, red lights and screaming klaxons went off in Randy's mind when he happened across that phrase.

"But this assertion buys into a specious subsumption. 'Nature' is a socially constructed discourse, not an objective reality [many footnotes here]. That is doubly true in the case of the 'nature' that accords full beards to the specific minority population of northern European males.
Home Sapiens evolved in climatic zones where facial hair was of little practical use. The development of an offshoot of the species characterized by densely bearded males is an adaptive response to cold climates. These climates did not 'naturally' invade the habitats of early humans--rather, the humans invaded geographical regions where such climates prevailed. The geographical transgression was strictly a sociocultural event and so all physical adaptations to it must be placed in the same category--including the development of dense facial hair."

Charlene published the results of a survey she had organized, in which a few hundred women were asked for their opinions. Essentially all of them said that they preferred clean-shaven men to those who were either stubbly or bearded. In short order, Charlene proved that having a beard was just one element of a syndrome strongly correlated to racist and sexist attitudes, and to the pattern of emotional unavailability so often bemoaned by the female partners of white male, especially ones who were technologically oriented.

"The boundary between Self and Environment is a social con[struct]. In Western cultures this boundary is supposed to be sharp and distinct. The beard is the outward symbol of that boundary, a distancing technique. To shave off the beard (or any body hair) is to symbolically annihlate the (essentially specious) boundary separating Self from Other ..."

And so on. The paper was rapturously received by the peer reviewers and immediately accepted for publication in a major international journal. Charlene is presenting some related work at the War as Text conference. "Unshaveness as a signifier in World War II movies." ON the strength of her beard work, three different Ivy League schools are fighting over who will get to hire her.

-- Cryptonomicon

Anonymous said...

He could certainly get a job editing internet content. But if his employer could KEEP HIM OFF THE INTERNET.

Marlowe said...

Keep reading down to the bottom of Knapp's profile. You will see that he is a supporter of "Christian Communism" and lists Western Sahara and Western Papua under "things that matter" as his closing note. Mencius Moldbug, please call your office.
-- Anon.

It's funny but while reading the eminent English philosopher and mathematician Bertrand Russell on "Why I am not a Christian" (based upon a speech he delivered to a meeting in 1927) he made the point of how Christianity in practice didn't follow the communistic teachings of its founder:

I now want to say a few words upon a topic which I often think is not quite sufficiently dealt with by Rationalists, and that is the question whether Christ was the best and the wisest of men. It is generally taken for granted that we should all agree that that was so. I do not myself. I think that there are a good many points upon which I agree with Christ a great deal more than the professing Christians do. I do not know that I could go with Him all the way, but I could go with Him much further than most professing Christians can. You will remember that He said, "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." That is not a new precept or a new principle. It was used by Lao-tse and Buddha some 500 or 600 years before Christ, but it is not a principle which as a matter of fact Christians accept. I have no doubt that the present prime minister [Stanley Baldwin], for instance, is a most sincere Christian, but I should not advise any of you to go and smite him on one cheek. I think you might find that he thought this text was intended in a figurative sense.

Then there is another point which I consider excellent. You will remember that Christ said,
"Judge not lest ye be judged." That principle I do not think you would find was popular in the law courts of Christian countries. I have known in my time quite a number of judges who were very earnest Christians, and none of them felt that they were acting contrary to Christian principles in what they did. Then Christ says, "Give to him that asketh of thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." That is a very good principle. Your Chairman has reminded you that we are not here to talk politics, but I cannot help observing that the last general election was fought on the question of how desirable it was to turn away from him that would borrow of thee, so that one must assume that the Liberals and Conservatives of this country are composed of people who do not agree with the teaching of Christ, because they certainly did very emphatically turn away on that occasion.

Then there is one other maxim of Christ which I think has a great deal in it, but I do not find that it is very popular among some of our Christian friends. He says,
"If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor." That is a very excellent maxim, but, as I say, it is not much practised. All these, I think, are good maxims, although they are a little difficult to live up to. I do not profess to live up to them myself; but then, after all, it is not quite the same thing as for a Christian.

Anonymous said...

'The kind of smart, inquisitive, patient but relentless commitment to an intellectual pursuit he exhibited is something common in White and Asian societies but almost non existent in the rest of the world.'


Like me.I posted three photos of Azolla filiculoides several years ago and they are still there. All I wrote has been re-edited. Damn annoying.

Anonymous said...

Come to think of it, Zimmerman looks kinda like Mussolini.

Anonymous said...

Didn't Dennis Hopper in TRUE ROMANCE say Italians are part eggplant?

Steve Sailer said...

If you can't trust Dennis Hopper's and Quentin Tarantino's command of the population genetics literature, whom can you trust?

Mr. Anon said...

Wikipedia...............

The first place you look.

The last place you trust.

Mr. Anon said...

One million edits?

I find it difficult to believe that a 30 year old unemployed pizza delivery man actually knows, or has ever known, one million things worth knowing.

Why would one list their job as "unemployed pizza delivery man"? As long as your unemployed, why not "unemployed alligator wrestler"? Outside of that mythical place, Porn-World, pizza delivery man doesn't carry a lot of prestige (in Porn-World however, it is one of the most highly sought-after jobs).

I would advise Mr. Knapp to launch a new career - professional Paul Giamatti impersonator.

Anonymous said...

"Knapp looks like a lot of the early Apple employees."


Checking his wiki user page (he's an Orwell fan, can't be all bad), the original silicon valley culture was full of guys like this and it was often lots of fun, lots of talk of philosophy, Tolkien, SciFi, the latest space project, the future, ...

Not likely the sort of individual accomplishment you will see from the IITians in silicon valley today, selected for CS department by test scores on an entrance exam and pushed by family into Green-card prospect careers with focus on money and marriagability. Lunch talk is about the schools to get your kids into... I've known IITians that really wanted to become automotive engineers, but...

Give me Real Nerds! The old British Eccentric. (And Avoid Boring People.)

Hacienda said...

Oh, man, oh, man. White people are GREAT!

And I'm not white!

How can an entire race of men and women be so blindingly GREAT?

Don't answer that. That's sarcasm for you idiots!

Anonymous said...

"What a dumbshit."

This guy's wiki page says he has two BAs (politics, philosophy). He appears a religiously active sort of guy. Not saying he is one, but guys that in the past might have become ministers might not today, but might still be drawn to religious communities/work and stay pretty busy, so "unemployed" might be true but might not quite go far enough. I've known some guys stay real busy trying to help.

About this sort of thing being dumb, whites in Cistercian monasteries essentially terraformed Europe, widely introducing the plow, waterworks, and waterpower. "Every monastery had a model factory...". Apparently this sort of thing didn't happen elsewhere at such scale, over such time. There are those that sow, and those that reap, which would you rather be? Rhetorical question, don't answer.

The long-term but here-and-now religious impulse seems very strong in some white folks. Maybe others as well, maybe not. Even white folks don't seem to understand much about the white "religious" impulse. (I mean the personality type, not anything theological.) Sometimes it seems to go bizarrely wrong, sometimes it really pays off.

Joe Six-Pack said...

"Sad in another time he would have a wife and family. Sure he is no woman's dream but that is part of the problem. In another time he wouldn't be such a leftist drip. He would have intelligent if ugly children who would be productive citizens. Thanks feminism!"

Just 40 years ago a White guy like him would be married with children.

Beta and Omega White males are almost totally displaced in the Western World and East Asia.

Truth said...

"This guy's wiki page says he has two BAs (politics, philosophy)."

Actually I was being intentionally flip. The man has a passion for his hobby and is accomplished. It wouldn't be my choice, but It is an accomplishment.

Kylie said...

"'Well, don't imagine it completely without vanity. The top 10 most gorgeous creatures I've ever encountered had all been Caucasian men.'

Well when I come to Thanksgiving dinner, that will change."


No it won't. Turkeys don't count as "gorgeous creatures", not even Thanksgiving turkeys.

Marlowe said...

If you can't trust Dennis Hopper's and Quentin Tarantino's command of the population genetics literature, whom can you trust? -- Mr. Sailer

Tarantino has slept around; Hopper spent a lot of time drunk in Mexico.

Anonymous said...

Well, don't imagine it completely without vanity. The top 10 most gorgeous creatures I've ever encountered had all been Caucasian men. They also place very well within the top 50, and the top 100. The world would be a bleaker place if all male vanity would vanish.

1 of those 10 was Whiskey.

Anonymous said...

Not likely the sort of individual accomplishment you will see from the IITians in silicon valley today, selected for CS department by test scores on an entrance exam and pushed by family into Green-card prospect careers with focus on money and marriagability. Lunch talk is about the schools to get your kids into... I've known IITians that really wanted to become automotive engineers, but...


Actually Wikipedia features some of its prolific editors on the page occasionally, when they ask for donations. I've seen at least a couple of Indians.

The rest of your point is true enough. Indian and East Asian/Chinese grinds end up crowding out innovative and quirky white free spirit types (both Jewish and Gentile). When everything is geared toward money and marriage, there's a complete change in the atmosphere. Geek v.s. nerd.

Anonymous said...

Right - it's a tragedy that in the modern world, a guy like this has basically zero chance of ever bagging a chick and putting a bun in her oven.

And yet, as recently as about 1960 - at the same age - he'd already have two or three children.

I hate modernity.

Really, really hate it.

Whiskey said...

Are we sure that's not a picture of Kevin Smith?

As far as Wiki being a hard-left hangout, true. Beta male nerds (apologize for repeating myself there) parrot feminist leftism hoping to get good-boy pats on the head, instead they just generate more loathing and thus go harder left each iteration.

In order for this guy to be happy and successful, he would have to focus 100% on being in shape, sexy, and appealing to women. Most of the time (and this is true among Mexicans in the US) a fat guy like that will find an equally fat woman, and have kids. Perhaps not Nirvana but invests society with deeper resources than a few highly skilled workers in various fields.

My guess is this guy gave up on girls a long time ago, still has the beta male orbiter habit of reflexive "you go girl" leftism/feminism. Hence everything in Wikipedia.

As far as hatred of White males goes, that's mostly a White female phenomena. Sure guys like Johan Ver Der Sloot (women send marriage proposals to that walking garbage dump behind bars), Russell Brand, and George Clooney are exempt, but because of ... LUXURY (high security/status and expectation of same) White women assume the LUXURY GOOD of contempt for men who don't push their dominance/arousal buttons.

As the West rapidly transitions to Greece/Spain, with a dose of LA Riots (anniversary tommorow) that luxury attitude will go out the window, meanwhile there will be a market run so to speak on beta males with enough gumption to provide protection and provisions in semi-chaotic state (think current Greece or Spain).

Maya said...

"Well when I come to Thanksgiving dinner, that will change."

Now, I'm intrigued. You won't bring a tail of paparazzi to my parents' front lawn, will you? You know, you are really doing your cause a disservice by failing to employ your legendary beauty. I realize that your whole life you must have stressed over the possibility that your friends chose you for your appearance, rather than your character and wit. But you must understand that your message (any message) would fall on receptive ears a lot more often coming out of your angelic mouth, than it does in a forum where no one can see you.

Sir, I will alert my parents to set the table for one more. I'm always on a look out for, er, a black swan to challenge my current views and perceptions.

P.S. Please, be advised that "negr" is not an insult in my birth language, but merely the only word there is to describe people of your heritage, so don't feel uncomfortable while hearing it from the older side of the table over, and over, and over again. They'll probably just be discussing your out of this world beauty

Anonymous said...

Didn't Dennis Hopper in TRUE ROMANCE say Italians are part eggplant?

Genetic studies do show sub-Saharan admixture in Southern Europeans and Ashkenazim.

Anonymous said...

"How can an entire race of men and women be so blindingly GREAT?

Don't answer that. That's sarcasm for you idiots!"



How can one have a coherent polity, functional nation, or even rational discussion if a chunk of the population will almost randomly find themselves consumed by green? Perhaps the thought was that, unfettered, people from every clime, place, and circumstance would join together and look forward happily to the future. Mass education would do it's thing and all. Doesn't seem to be happening. From where I sit, no longer seems likely. And why would one want to live in a future of endless whine? I suppose the good news is that people always complain, so if this is the momentus matter of the day it probably means we don't need to worry about starving this winter.

Maya said...

"1 of those 10 was Whiskey."

That's very possible. I always had the feeling that he might be an elaborate troll. His writing might be coming off as so erratically passionate because he probably has an 18 year old super model kneeling under his desk as he types.

Maya said...

"Right - it's a tragedy that in the modern world, a guy like this has basically zero chance of ever bagging a chick and putting a bun in her oven.

And yet, as recently as about 1960 - at the same age - he'd already have two or three children."

Nonsense. Fifty years ago, he'd be married to his female equivalent- one of those women at Wallmart whom your brain only registers as objects with which to avoid collisions. He could find such a bride in this day and age just as well, if that's what he wanted. I think that among the very unattractive, women are more desperate to get married than men as they are less likely to fill the void with porn and a demanding hobby, and they have biological clocks ticking in the background.

One of my floor mates in college was 300 lbs and shaved her rather plain face everyday because of PCOS. She cried at our graduation party because at 22 she had never been kissed or even asked out. She just got married to the first guy who did ask her out (when she was 24). he is shorter than her and has bad acne. She is thrilled to be in a relationship, finally. That's how it happened in 1960.

Or do you think that unattractive guys used to marry average girls while average guys paired of with pretty girls? Do ugly women and attractive men just disappear in your fantasy of the good old past?

Besides, the fact that an unemployed man who can't focus on anything practical doesn't have 2 or 3 children isn't a tragedy. Who'd feed them?

Anonymous said...

Nerds have created the Wikipedia, but the Wikipedia has been bad for nerds. It devalues knowing stuff. Anyone can now quickly look up almost anything. One of nerds' advantages, causes for showing off, claims to indispensability - knowing obscure, but sometimes useful info - has been diminished.

I see your point but I rather suspect (thinking of myself here) that its nerdy types who are most likely to be looking stuff up on Wikipedia etc Other less nerdy people are less likely to do it unless they have to for work, school etc

I often look stuff up just because I want to - thats a bit nerdy.

So nerds have ceded some ground but not too much.

One could always find stuff out, it just took more time and effort. That cost has been reduced but the will to do it is still the most important.

el dorado said...

"Arabs,Chinese and Indians managed to eke out an existence quite removed from the beasts of the field without the help of white men while most whites thought it was unhealthy to bathe and fought over relics of dead saints."


Many people thought it was unhealthy to bathe. In the late 20th century, Arabs living along the seacoast of the Saudi Arabian Peninisula did not bathe as it was thought unhealthy. Indians bathed in the Ganges with the floating corpses and the Chinese were filthy for the most part, or so say the Japanese who really did routinely bathe long before they "westernized." The Japanese were the cleanest people in the world. While I don't think any one race or country should gloat over achivements, it is a massive irony that an impoverished place that has produced no advances in many centuries claims great pride in their past (why not?) while the people who are responsible for virtually everything modern technology has to offer are told they have no right to proud or take any credit for anything good their ancestors did or invented. But damn we're supposed to take the blame for anything bad they are supposed to have done.

The Europeans may have thought it unhealthy to toally immerse the body often, but they were hardly unique in that. The Romans had high-tech baths, imported to places like Bath, England. There were saunas in northern Europe. However, it was a common conception among many peoples, even some living very near clean bodies of waters. I knew Iranians who lived in a Gulf Arab village during the late 20th century. They finally got one of the girls they were trying to teach (they were educators) to take a bath. Her family was shocked--it was considered unhealthy. And they lived near the seashore.
As for the relics of the saints, some of them were housed in Cathedrals whose architecture shows principles of Euclidian geometry (influenced perhaps by exposure to Muslim architects, who had studied the ancient Greeks), whose soaring architecture dating from the 13th century, is jaw-dropping still. Saints' relics also formed a lively part of Muslim tradition, and the superstitions of the Hindus and Chinese are easy to find out about. Europe's superstitions were a pale shadow of those prevalent in the Indian subcontinent or even in current day modern China and Korea where they believe that a dog, terrified by seeing other dogs killed, will then make the tastiest morsel.
Islamic civilization actually did lead in intellectual endeavors for a few centuries, and they did look down on Europeans. But that was a dangerously out of date attitude as early as the 15th century.
However developed the civilizations of Asia were, by the 17th century, they were going anywhere. If they had never been in contacted with Europe they would not have changed. As it is even today, many of these places have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Jehu said...

Maya,
He looks like he's probably around the 20th or so percentile for males in status.
50 years ago that got you a moderately unattractive woman with a few extra pounds.
Now that gets you a very unattractive woman who is very obese.
The increase in obesity among women has been really devastating in the SMP/MMP. Now all a woman has to do to get to the 75th percentile or so in attractiveness is have a BMI of 21 and be otherwise totally average. The average woman in the US has a BMI north of 25 with lots over 30.

Anonymous said...

Seriously this guy is a loser. He's living at home with his mom (in his 30s), disheveled, unmarried, unemployed, spends hours a day doing pointless BS on Wikipedia, and used to work as a pizza delivery guy. My guess is that he's highly antisocial, irresponsible, and unmotivated. Essentially a homeless guy with a higher IQ and no addictions.

Under no social-cultural system would this man be considered a good catch. In the 1950s, he'd be ridiculed for failing to work and keep up a clean cut appearance. In the year 2012, he's ridiculed for exactly the same shortcomings.

There's a tendency here to overplay the alpha-beta-omega thing. Yes there are some men who are more desirable to women, others less so, and most in the middle. However, unless you have some serious flaws (obesity, unkempt appearance, weird personality, no job, etc.), it's pretty easy to find a woman. Most normal nice guys with jobs do fine.

I'll grant that women do prefer tough and handsome bad boys, but that was true as far back as the 1950s, with James Dean stealing the hearts of young women.

Anonymous said...

This man is an unemployed pizza delivery guy who lives with his mom and is exceptionally unattractive. I'd rate him in the bottom 5-10 percent of men. Above the criminals and mentally ill, bit below nearly everyone else. The man is a bum.

Maya said...

Jehu,

He is an unemployed 30 year old who lives with his mother and whose last job was delivering pizzas. Additionally, he is not very tall, extremely obese and not well groomed. I can't think of any time or culture where these qualifications and status in society would make it likely for a man to land a bride who'd be only mildly unattractive.

I don't mean to bad mouth this man. Peering through his fat and facial hair, I can see facial features that are actually pleasant and possibly even handsome. If he got himself within a healthy range of BF%, his body would be acceptable to most women, and he is no doubt taller than many girls. The beard is probably there to hide the fat, so losing weight would take care of that. He also has 2 degrees, so he is of above average intelligence. I'm guessing he has a mental or a personality disorder to find himself in his present situation given that he has the raw material to be much better off. I hope he'll find a way to deal with his depression, anxiety, or whatever else keeps him so far below his potential, so he could have a happier life.

You might be right that 50 years ago, this guy's potential bride would be merely very ugly without being obese to boot. that's because very few people were obese back then. In all likelihood, he wouldn't have been this overweight either if he were living at that time. But today, both boys and girls have a good chance of adding that extra unattractive characteristic to their list of flaws, and, yeah, it's a biggie (no pun intended) for both sexes. On the flip side, most people today have much better teeth than those depression era and war time kids.


Fifty years ago, whatever ails this guy still wouldn't be addressed, but he'd get pressured into marrying the chubby girl with small eyes, bad skin and crooked teeth, and she probably wouldn't love him. Then, he'd be forced to work in a factory to support those 2 or 3 children he'd already have by 30. Also, there is no guarantee that the wife would consent to sex often or at all after the kids would have been born. "I have a headache" is a very old meme, as is the "quarrelsome wife" stereotype. According to stories ranging in origin from Medieval Europe to American Frontier, men were kings of their households only when they could enforce it, or when the rest of the family pleasantly agreed. if the wife happened to be more strong willed, more stubborn and just meaner, she could cease control and run things to her liking. This guy doesn't look like he has violence or rape in him. Perhaps, wives from hell who chased their husbands around with a rolling pin were rare, but generally unpleasant ones who weren't interested in sex with their husbands when they could get away with it were common by all accounts. I bet it happened to the guys who weren't loved by their wives and who didn't have the will to assert themselves- like this guy. Of course, the divorce laws would be more in his favor, but then he'd be back where he started. Do you really think he'd be happier in the past?

Anonymous said...

"Under no social-cultural system would this man be considered a good catch. In the 1950s, he'd be ridiculed for failing to work and keep up a clean cut appearance. In the year 2012, he's ridiculed for exactly the same shortcomings."

In the 1950s he'd have been much more able to obtain employment than today, and with employment comes the whole not being a fat neckbeard thing.

"Somehow in the pre industrial era, Arabs,Chinese and Indians managed to eke out an existence quite removed from the beasts of the field without the help of white men while most whites thought it was unhealthy to bathe and fought over relics of dead saints."

Not SEVEN BILLION of them, as per the post. Their populations went parabolic upwards only when our technology was transfered to them in the 50s.

Anonymous said...

" candid_observer said...
A million edits?

If one assumes he's been at it for 10 years, 365 days a year, 10 hrs a day, that's 27 edits per hour.

What can that even mean? He changes 27 non-contiguous words per hour? And over how many topics? Sounds like he was gaming for this result, not a natural product of editing, however tireless."

This is the elephant in the room. What constitutes editing? Moving a comma?

When I make a movie based on Confederacy of Dunces, I will cast Knapp as Ignatius J. Reilly and pay him a huge amount to compensate him for all of his sacrifice.

Beecher Asbury said...

As far as hatred of White males goes, that's mostly a White female phenomena.

As dozens of commenters have tried to do in the past, I will point out that 95% of married white females choose white males, hence, your little thesis is weak. However, as you have done in the past, you will ignore this and continue to parrot this garbage.

Just because white women hate you, doesn't mean they hate white men.

Anonymous said...

Cosmo Kramer: You're wasting your life.
George Costanza: I am not. What you call wasting, I call living. I'm living my life.
Cosmo Kramer: OK, like what? No, tell me. Do you have a job?
George Costanza: No.
Cosmo Kramer: You got money?
George Costanza: No.
Cosmo Kramer: Do you have a woman?
George Costanza: No.
Cosmo Kramer: Do you have any prospects?
George Costanza: No.
Cosmo Kramer: You got anything on the horizon?
George Costanza: Uh, no.
Cosmo Kramer: Do you have any action at all?
George Costanza: No.
Cosmo Kramer: Do you have any conceivable reason for even getting up in the morning?
George Costanza: I like to logon to wikipedia!

Anonymous said...

I'm so happy that I'm nothing like this LOSER.

OT. What reward should I expect for my one millionth iSteve Blog page visit? It should be coming up soon.

Anonymous said...

He's what Steve Wozniak woulda been if Jobs hadn't talked him into profits. He's Wikisniak.

He also looks like Harry Knowles' brother.

Anonymous said...

Knapp looks like us folks who hang out on isteve. I never understood why Steve likes to needle the nebbishness of Wikipedia contributors (eg the Wikipedia picnic post) Maybe he constantly fantasizes about a readership made up of the most powerful cultural elite. News flash Steve: Knapp is your typical regular reader.

Reg Cæsar said...

According to Will Shortz, the guy who invented sudoku was also an Indianapolitan. And Shortz himself grew up in the country nearby. The world's biggest genealogical hoard outside Utah is housed in Ft. Wayne.

Indiana used to produce major songwriters-- Porter, Carmichael, Dresser, Hanley, the von Tilzers. Now all they give us is hyper-gnerds.

Ed said...

Who feeds this guy?

Anonymous said...

Europe's superstitions were a pale shadow of those prevalent in the Indian subcontinent or even in current day modern China and Korea

I'm not sure. Medicinal cannibalism existed in Europe until the 18th century, and it was pretty weird stuff. I don't know if it's much less strange than Eastern superstitions.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,604548,00.html

"Johann Schröder, a German pharmacologist, wrote these words in the 17th century. But the meat to which he was referring was not cured ham or beef tenderloin. The instructions specifically called for the "cadaver of a reddish man ... of around 24 years old," who had been "dead of a violent death but not an illness" and then laid out "exposed to the moon rays for one day and one night" with, he noted, "a clear sky.""

"In fact, there are countless sources that describe the morbid practices of early European healers. The Romans drank the blood of gladiators as a remedy against epilepsy. But it was not until the Renaissance that the use of cadaver parts in medicine became more commonplace. At first, powders made from shredded Egyptian mummies were sold as an "elixir of life," says Sugg. In the early 17th century, healers turned their attention to the mortal remains of people who had been executed or even the corpses of beggars and lepers.

Paracelsus, the German-Swiss physician, was one of the most vehement proponents of body-stripping, which eventually gained popularity at even the highest levels of society. British King Charles II paid 6,000 pounds for a recipe to distill human skull. The regent applied the resulting distillate, which entered the history of medicine as "the king's drops," almost daily.

Scholars and noblemen, as well as ordinary people, swore by the healing powers of death. US anthropologist Beth Conklin, for example, quoting a 19th-century source, writes that in Denmark epileptics were reported to stand around the scaffold in crowds, cup in hand, ready to drink the red blood as it flows from the still quavering body. Skulls were used as medicine, as was the moss that tended to sprout from them. It was believed to staunch bleeding.

Human fat was supposed to alleviate rheumatism and arthritis, while a paste made from corpses was believed to help against contusions."

"The practice was not always a success. In 1492, when Pope Innocent VIII was on his deathbed, his doctors bled three boys and had the pope drink their blood. The boys died, and so did the pope."

Svigor said...

What is wikipedia like in other languages? Do they have people doing this on the Spanish wikipedia? Do they fight over using Vosotros? Is there a neckbearded White guy somewhere with 90000 edits in Spanish?

I altered your question so I could say "yes."

Didn't Dennis Hopper in TRUE ROMANCE say Italians are part eggplant?

Sicilians.

So nerds have ceded some ground but not too much.

Maybe, but the idea that Wikipedia is emblematic is preposterous. Wikipedia is a nerd-enhancer. You can follow a thread as long as you want there. Who else follows threads?

Anonymous said...

Hey, is Komment Kontrol gonna allow the white guys to hit on Maya?

'Cause we eat a mean Turkey Day dinner at my house, replete with some world class wines.

[There's probably a white meat / dark meat joke in there somewhere, but that definitely wouldn't make it past KK...]

Matt said...

"Nerds have created the Wikipedia, but the Wikipedia has been bad for nerds. It devalues knowing stuff. Anyone can now quickly look up almost anything."

Encyclopedias. Bad for smart people when they're accessible and very searchable. Yeah...

That's like saying "Education is bad for nerds". It's obviously not - nerds will use it more effectively.

Its a rise in the tide. All boats are lifted

Somehow in the pre industrial era, Arabs,Chinese and Indians managed to eke out an existence quite removed from the beasts of the field without the help of white men while most whites thought it was unhealthy to bathe and fought over relics of dead saints.

Definitely removed from the beasts of the field in the case of the Chinese - they substituted people for many of the roles Westerners used domestic animals. They survived, but at population densities quite comparable to Europeans, and with a much more human labor and less animal labor intensive means of production.

Btw, since this is a wiki thread and in pursuit of knowledge, low levels of bathing for health reasons is more of an Enlightenment era thing (in connection with ideas that water makes the skin more permeable, not ignorance of the importance of finding clean water sources).

Earlier bathing in Europe (which happened) was not neglected for health reasons but for ascetic reasons - bathing is pleasurable, so wrong. They did not believe that cleanliness was close to godliness, but in "the scent of holiness", which was "ascetics smelling like poor people". The Arabs and Jews believed in ritual bathing, while the Christians believed that not bathing was ascetic.

Anonymous said...

The Neckbeard in question sure does arouse insecurities in many of the commenters.

How many people read this site while trapped in a crappy career, crappy marriage, crappy mortgage, crappy town?

Do you keep telling yourself that you must be the "winner"?

Anonymous said...

It makes sense that bathing the body (not just the hands) would be unhealthy, leaving people more susceptible to disease.

Maya said...

"
'Cause we eat a mean Turkey Day dinner at my house, replete with some world class wines."

Well, it's too late NOW. Where were you before I joined Teach for America? You could've saved me, you bastard!

And Truth is coming over to freak out my mother. Basically, we are recreating Look Who is Coming to Dinner, with the majority of the cast not in the loop. It's gonna have an ethnic twist and, possibly, a tragic ending.

Maya said...

"Just because white women hate you, doesn't mean they hate white men"

People are strange
When you're a stranger
Faces look ugly
When you're alone
Women see wicked
When you're unwanted
Streets are uneven
When you're down

Btw, according to the 4 biographies that I read, even Jim Morrison had trouble getting laid when he became an obese neckbeard. Obviously, being a world famous rock star, he could get something or other, but his choices became severely limited.

Hacienda said...

"Europe's superstitions were a pale shadow"

Apparently a portion of whites believe that there was a man who died and was reborn in a short time. I've also heard rumours that there are these whites who believe a women became pregnant by spontaneous combustion or something like that and produced a man who could walk on water without the aid of floatation devices. Creepy, primitive stuff. Surely there are no whites who really believe this in this day and age. Must be a show.

Kylie said...

"Knapp looks like us folks who hang out on isteve."

Speak for yourself.

dave chamberlin said...

People who bad mouth wikipedia are ignorant that it is extremely useful tool when it is used right. It is as stupid as saying a hammer is a lousy pipe wrench, you don't blame the hammer you blame the fool who doesn't know how to use it. It wasn't long ago that specialists had a wall of subject specific vernacular that kept the public out of their discussions. That wall is gone now thanks to wikipedia. It used to be you had to read a wordy three hundred page book to fing the five pages that windowed you to what you wanted to know. Thanks to wikipedia and the internet we the readers can get right to what we want to know. I'm tired of people bitching about wikipedia because the information it provides isn't sufficient for real experts and is sometimes innacurate. People love to bad mouth these asbergy types as losers, which they might be socially but before you call Mr Has No Life But Wikipedia a useless loser tell me what have any of you done to make the world a better place more than pursue your selfish needs.

NOTA said...

Some people have obsessive hobbies that consume a lot of their lives. Historically, we benefit a lot when those obsessive hobbies can produce something other people find useful, like geneological tables, or really detailed samples and descriptions of a hundred different kinds of beetles, or mathematical proofs. Wikipedia edits are probably at least somewhat like that, though in both cases their value depends on whether they're mostly accurate.

Some people can make a living on their obsessive hobbies, productive or not. Most people can't, whether that's reading and commenting on medevial French literature or acquiring vast expertise about comic books in the 20th century.

Anonymous said...

"As dozens of commenters have tried to do in the past, I will point out that 95% of married white females choose white males, hence, your little thesis is weak."

As curious women who chance upon the manosphere ask:
"then why do you men still have sex with women?"

As pointed out by HL Mencken, most women don't love the men they marry, but have to settle for them.
Indifference is not hate, but familiarity and contempt are well-known.

Not that whiskey is right, but marriage is a poor way to refute his "hate hate hate beta white men" line.

Kai Carver said...

I've made a little over 1000 edits in Wikipedia over a 7 years, something which makes me slightly embarrassed and slightly proud. Embarrassed for the ridiculous amount of time it takes me to do things right, and for the near-insignificance of the actual edits. Proud because it seems like a worthwhile pursuit to improve, in however small a way, the quality of information out there. I think of it as akin to gardening or cleaning up public property. It's surprising to me that many commenters are both contemptuous of Wikipedia editors and ignorant of how Wikipedia works. I really like Wikipedia and greatly appreciate what people like Knapp do. My default impression is he's an admirable guy.

Aeoli Pera said...

I suspect the people criticizing Knapp's lifestyle don't think those edits should be reversed. Even if all he did was correct punctuation, that's a non-negligible step forward for mankind.

So ask yourself whether the opportunity cost is worth the alternative universe where Knapp is an electrician, or something.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

Knapp looks like us folks who hang out on isteve. I never understood why Steve likes to needle the nebbishness of Wikipedia contributors (eg the Wikipedia picnic post) Maybe he constantly fantasizes about a readership made up of the most powerful cultural elite. News flash Steve: Knapp is your typical regular reader."

Maybe Knapp is like YOU. He ain't like me, nor like many people who routinely read this site. Speak for yourself.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 7:42 P.M.

There is not much sub-Saharan admixture in Southern Europeans or Ashkenazim, i.e. it is in the range of low single-digit percentages. The amount of admixture in these populations is much lower than in Muslim Arabs, for instance. Spain and Portugal have the highest sub-Saharan admixture in Europe, and it is in the low single-digit percent range. There is evidence that varies regionally as well. In the caes of Ashkenazim, Dienekes has pointed out that the recent autosomal DNA-based Moorjani et al. paper almost certainly overestimates the admixture. In comparison to a North European reference population, Ashkenazim deviate very slightly towards both sub-Saharan and East Asian populations on a PCA plot. However, the Moorjani paper lumped all of that deviation into sub-Saharan admixture, which is incorrect. Moreover, it is not the case that N. Europeans have no sub-Saharan or East Asian admixture. But when they are used as a reference population, the studies are not designed to demonstrate it. Sub-Saharan admixture in N. Europeans would be extremely low, of course.

Anonymous said...

Earlier bathing in Europe (which happened) was not neglected for health reasons but for ascetic reasons - bathing is pleasurable, so wrong. They did not believe that cleanliness was close to godliness
actually bathing was considered unhealthy for a couple of reasons - first, it was - before sterlization etc, a bathhouse was hot moist environment - perfect for spreading disease.
second, it was a place of pagan sexual immorality - just like the notorious gay bathhouses during the AIDs crisis.

while most whites thought it was unhealthy to bathe and fought over relics of dead saints.
... and built cathedrals to house them in that surpass in beauty anything an oriental has done or will ever be able to do.

... and created universities and scientific method (both based on Christian theology) that surpass anything orientals have done or will be able to do, ever.

... and created art that surpassed anything orientals have done or will be able to do.

.... and ended infanticide which is still common among orientals.

Anonymous said...

Somehow in the pre industrial era, Arabs,Chinese and Indians managed to eke out an existence quite removed from the beasts of the field without the help of white men
good, you don't need our help, our lands, our counties, our universities, etc ... please leave and go back to your non-white paradise.

David said...

We like to think that if any past benefactor of mankind, any great thinker - Aristotle, Plato, Darwin, you-name-it - were to come back to life today under a different name, he would be an economic success. We believe as a matter of course that he would swiftly become a multimillionaire, perhaps CEO of a world-famous laboratory founded by him on a shoestring, or be whipping up some fabulous new investment scheme, electronic toy, or insurance product. He would succeed at life, which is about money; he would easily out-earn the top hip-hop artists. His high IQ and unconventional mind would be just the sort of moxie needed to swim with the sharks and kick the balls of the competition.

What if we're wrong? Mozart died in poverty.

John Ruskin said, "Generally, good, useful work, whether of the hand or head, is either ill-paid, or not paid at all. I don't say it should be so, but it always is so. People, as a rule, only pay for being amused or being cheated, not for being served. Five thousand a year to your talker, and a shilling a day to your fighter, digger, and thinker, is the rule. None of the best head work in art, literature, or science, is ever paid for. How much do you think Homer got for his Iliad? or Dante for his Paradise? only bitter bread and salt, and going up and down other people's stairs. In science, the man who discovered the telescope, and first saw heaven, was paid with a dungeon; the man who invented the microscope, and first saw earth, died of starvation." (The Crown of the Wild Olive, Lecture 1.)

I don't mean to suggest that Knapp is a great thinker. But we've been talking here about his type, conceived as someone who prefers beavering away at intellectual "junk" to making coin. He's the type of guy who would rather study bark than, say, run a whorehouse or a hotel or build a call center to facilitate the selling of overpriced jewelry to Mafia wives. You know, a loser like Leonardo da Vinci.

Of course, under modern capitalism, the problem of the unappreciated da Vinci has been solved. We see that great modern-day da Vincis like Jeffrey Skilling, Lord Blankfein, Steve Jobs (the contents of his FBI file make clear that he was the equal of Gauss), Pat Robertson, Bernie Madoff, Michael Milken, et al. receive the just rewards of their lasting contributions to our intelligent and sustainable society. Hurrah!

Now stop wasting time thinking about these useless and puzzling topics and get back to work.

Steve Sailer said...

"The Origin of Species" is stuffed to the gills with information provided to Darwin by eccentric hobbyists of the "Gussie Fink-Nottle, newt fancier of deepest Essex" type. Darwin might have been able to come up with the theory of natural selection without all the help he got from hobbyists, but his book wouldn't have been so persuasive as it immediately was upon publication without them.

Anonymous said...

please leave and go back to your non-white paradise.

And you please leave the Americas and Australasia and go back to Europe.

Truth said...

"No it won't. Turkeys don't count as "gorgeous creatures", not even Thanksgiving turkeys"

LMAO; KYLIE SHOOTS AND SCORES!

I really have had a positive effect on your writing and sense of humor.

Truth said...

"Now, I'm intrigued. You won't bring a tail of paparazzi to my parents' front lawn, will you? You know, you are really doing your cause a disservice by failing to employ your legendary beauty. I realize that your whole life you must have stressed over the possibility that your friends chose you for your appearance,"

You mock, whilst others of your general ilk would advise you to take this opportunity very, very seriously...

Truth said...

"His writing might be coming off as so erratically passionate because he probably has an 18 year old super model kneeling under his desk as he types."

Supermodels fix routers nowadays?

Truth said...

" Hey, is Komment Kontrol gonna allow the white guys to hit on Maya?"

No, because you'd probably want to use your knuckles.

Anonymous said...

Knapp looks like us folks who hang out on isteve. I never understood why Steve likes to needle the nebbishness of Wikipedia contributors (eg the Wikipedia picnic post) Maybe he constantly fantasizes about a readership made up of the most powerful cultural elite. News flash Steve: Knapp is your typical regular reader."

Steve Sailer himself is married with 2 kids and a wife. Also, he's got an MBA from UCLA and had a pretty successful career in marketing and writing for National Review. If you google him, you'll find that he physically looks a lot different from Mr. Knapp.

I always assumed that the typical iSteve reader fit that mold. Conservatism generally appears to people who are conservative, ie married, career, boring, clean appearance. Knapp would represent the opposite of that. Of course, if I'm wrong and the typical blogsphere reader looks like Knapp......... that might explain why HBD is in such a rut.

Steve Sailer said...

The point of the title "White Male Privilege" is that Wikipedia's domination by white males is seen as this problem that needs fixing, but my question has been: Who else besides dreaded white men are going to do all that work for FREE to create this (imperfect but) amazing resource for the world?

Sorry to the people who didn't need having it spelled out.

Beecher Asbury said...

Not that whiskey is right, but marriage is a poor way to refute his "hate hate hate beta white men" line.

If you don't like marriage rates, then look at stats from online dating services. As others on this blog have already pointed out, Data from more than 1 million profiles of singles looking for love online confirms that whites overwhelmingly prefer to date members of their own race.

...

“Whites more than blacks, women more than men and old more than young participants stated a preference for a partner of the same race."

If whiskey is having trouble with white women, he is either non-white or makes the unemployed Justin Anthony Knapp look like Brad Pitt.

Anonymous said...

And you please leave the Americas and Australasia and go back to Europe.
obviously haven't been keeping up on the latest genetic evidence of the 'first americans', have you, buttercup?

Anonymous said...

obviously haven't been keeping up on the latest genetic evidence of the 'first americans', have you, buttercup?

Obviously you haven't been keeping up on the latest genetic evidence because there hasn't been genetic evidence for the "Solutrean hypothesis". It's based on archaeology.

And it's not even clear that the Solutreans were the ancestors of modern Europeans, who are the descendants of Middle Eastern farmers and Indo-European herders from the steppes.

Anonymous said...

Moreover, it is not the case that N. Europeans have no sub-Saharan or East Asian admixture. But when they are used as a reference population, the studies are not designed to demonstrate it. Sub-Saharan admixture in N. Europeans would be extremely low, of course.

It's reasonable to believe that N. Europeans basically have no sub-Saharan admixture. This is even looking at up to 1 million SNPs. These are orders of magnitude difference compared to the other groups.

Anonymous said...

genetic evidence for the "Solutrean hypothesis". It's based on archaeology.
if you call kennewick man or the other Caucasian skeletons found, 'archaeology'I guess you're right.

Jehu said...

Maya,
I think 50 years ago he'd try harder, because the quality of women that he'd get if he cleaned up and got a real job would be considerably better (I think that if he made most of the low-hanging fruit improvements he'd could bat at around the 35th-40th percentile or so).
What was a 40th percentile woman back in the 1950s, or in a society with a weight distribution and behavior distribution similar to that? Most likely it was a woman with average looks who was somewhat overweight (25-28 or so BMI) or a woman of 23-25 BMI who had moderately unattractive features. What is it now?
Basically now he's looking at cleaning himself up, a major expenditure of initiative and energy, for a very poor return in the SMP/MMP. His returns in the 50s would have been far better.

Anonymous said...

I think 50 years ago he'd try harder
there was also a social structure that encouraged - as steve often points out, and illustrated in shows like Downton Abbey- parents took part in the marriage process.

Now most parents 'don't want to interfere' 'be judgmental' and other baby boomer inspired nonsense.

I hate the baby boom generation.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 5:39 P.M.

Y-chromosome haplogroup A has been demonstrated in an English gentleman who considered himself of native English stock. That's just one example. England had a major empire that for a significant period relied on slave-labor to serve the Caribbean plantations. A small number of Africans and Afro-Caribbeans were brought to Britain as part of the slave trade. Before that, Romanized North Africans may have settled in Britain and elsewhere in Western Europe when those areas were ruled by Rome. There are inscriptions discovered near Hadrian's wall that demonstrate the presence of soldiers there who were originally from outside of Europe. If from North Africa, they would likely have possessed a small quantum of diluted sub-Saharan ancestry. Moreover, the Neolithic farmers of Near Eastern origin had a smaller genetic impact on Northern Europe than on Southern Europe. However, they did have an impact. They also may have brought a small quantum of dilute sub-Saharan admixture.

As I said, the amount of sub-Saharan admixture in Europe is likely very low, but it's not zero. If it were, they wouldn't deviate any more towards sub-Saharans than do East Asians. By comparison, the sub-Saharan admixture in Spain is around 1-2%, and it is similarly low in Ashkenazim after correcting for the Moorjani paper's gross error of conflating all non-Caucasoid admixture in Ashkenazim with sub-Saharan admixture when it is a mixture of sub-Saharan and East Asian (shown explicitly by Dienekes). Portugal has slightly higher rates, but it is concentrated in Southern Portugal.

Anonymous said...

genetic evidence for the "Solutrean hypothesis". It's based on archaeology.
if you call kennewick man or the other Caucasian skeletons found, 'archaeology'I guess you're right.


What is that if not archaeology??

Anonymous said...

if you call kennewick man or the other Caucasian skeletons found, 'archaeology'I guess you're right.

No, that would be called "physical anthropology".

As for Kennewick Man, studies point to him being a proto-Asiatic or Australoid Paleolithic man possibly related to today's Ainu or Polynesians.

Anonymous said...

As I said, the amount of sub-Saharan admixture in Europe is likely very low, but it's not zero.

I would say it's zero for most. Whereas it's pretty consistently picked up in other groups. And where it is picked up, it's orders of magnitude less.

Anonymous said...

.... and ended infanticide which is still common among orientals.

It's apparently endemic in Japan!

Anonymous said...

Supermodels fix routers nowadays?

I wonder how many supermodels can even spell ROUTER.

Anonymous said...

"Actually I was being intentionally flip. The man has a passion for his hobby and is accomplished. It wouldn't be my choice, but It is an accomplishment."

It is rare for Truth to complement (though modified) a white person, so I'll return the favor. I've always admired the black chess enthusiasts who play in the parks of NYC.

Herman said...

and created universities and scientific method (both based on Christian theology)

The scientific method isn't based on Christian theology. It's based on prioritizing experimentation over argumentation - the opposite of Christian theology.

Anonymous said...


I think 50 years ago he'd try harder, because the quality of women that he'd get if he cleaned up and got a real job would be considerably better (I think that if he made most of the low-hanging fruit improvements he'd could bat at around the 35th-40th percentile or so).
What was a 40th percentile woman back in the 1950s, or in a society with a weight distribution and behavior distribution similar to that? Most likely it was a woman with average looks who was somewhat overweight (25-28 or so BMI) or a woman of 23-25 BMI who had moderately unattractive features. What is it now?
Basically now he's looking at cleaning himself up, a major expenditure of initiative and energy, for a very poor return in the SMP/MMP. His returns in the 50s would have been far better.


I think so too. You just don't see fat people in crowd pictures or newsreels back then. Not like today. Several reasons: people walked more, no HFCS, a six ounce Coke once a day max was typical soda consumption. A Big Gulp is more than a whole six pack of those. Processed food in general. But pride in appearance was significant too.

Remember the fat woman on that episode of "Mad Men"? That was rare then. Today common.

Anonymous said...

But pride in appearance was significant too.

If so then the fittest people should be male homosexuals in the disco era.

Anonymous said...

Knapp is a man's man. Intelligent men cherish such men's company, but their wives can barely understand why. Many men have a fanatical passion that is tempered by responsibilities; maybe we envy that Knapp is unencumbered by them. He represent the inner monk in all of us. He may be a low/no earner, but he is high class.

The monks used to take pride in the fact that if the monastery was destroyed and if all the members, but one, were killed, that one could recreate the monastery and continue all of its endeavors.

My biggest fear about Wikipedia is that when the Dark Ages come, and the technology for accessing it is lost, there will be no durable paper text to decipher. I remember reading that a big concern of storing nuclear waste is how to label it - what kind of labels will people understand ten thousand years from now.

Anonymous said...

"... grinds end up crowding out innovative and quirky white free spirit types... When everything is geared toward money and marriage, there's a complete change in the atmosphere. Geek v.s. nerd."

What I hear on the silly-con valley street from those who desperately need to meet ROI expectations is that the output of the quirky nerds over a significant period (guess, say, 5 years) is likely around 2-4 times that of the the money/marriage India/Chinese grind types (maybe even of the old white IBM grind types?). I'd love to see hard statistics on this, Stanford MBA guys, where are you? Has anyone already studied this?

The reason for this difference is assumed to be the low-risk cultures of the I/C grinds. Their career is too important for them to fail, so risk aversion is the norm. Lots of focus on knowing what the metrics are by which they will be rated (those crazy quirky guys would tell you what's wrong with your metrics and that you're wasting their time getting in the way of what needs to be done...).

Within the last few weeks I've heard Indians complaining about the single white guys with no marriage overhead (and likely no life;) at Apple and the long hours they work.

Anonymous said...

"The scientific method isn't based on Christian theology. It's based on prioritizing experimentation over argumentation - the opposite of Christian theology"

Last I heard Descartes was a devout Catholic - not Catholic enough for Pascal - but Catholic nonetheless.

I looked it up in Wikipedia!

Anonymous said...

Anybody feel sorry for the encyclopedia Britannica editor that lost his job to that mook?

Truth said...

"It is rare for Truth to complement (though modified) a white person, so I'll return the favor. I've always admired the black chess enthusiasts who play in the parks of NYC"

Well thanks, my friend, but you know, compliments aren't like four way stops; you don't have to wait for someone else, in order to make a move.

Maya said...

Jehu,

It could be argued both ways. Perhaps if he were more desirable, the girl next door would try harder to not be obese. It wouldn't take less effort for an undesirable woman to become somewhat desirable than it would for Knapp.

But I think it's pointless to argue from that perspective for either sex. When anyone blames their personal failures on the lack of motivation they get from the opposite sex, it's just a bullshit excuse.

Look... There are plenty of acceptably desirable men and women out there, but it requires an effort to be chosen as you choose them. Most of us have been making that effort since puberty. We've done our best to improve our appearance, even as product after product didn't yield the desired results, and garment after garment didn't give us the look we were after. We've tried to make something of ourselves, go somewhere, study something, do something, and when that something wouldn't work out, attempted another path, create a life for ourselves. We've faced our insecurities, fear of ridicule, ridicule, rejection, got hurt, and we haven't lost hope. All of this, not only to attract a mate, but as an instinctual drive to improve and get somewhere better. That's life. That's what the vast majority does, and that is why most people ARE in relationships. People who don't have that instinctual drive are defective in some way. I sincerely hope that this young man gets the help that he needs to move on with his life. Maybe all he needs is some Wellburtine and a few months of counseling. I don't know. But his obesity and his lack of direction aren't caused by anything outside of him.

How do you know that he wouldn't be happy with a 2, if only he could muster up the motivation to go talk to her? On the flip side, how do you know that he'd be happy with a 4? Some people aren't willing to settle for anything less than exactly what they want. They can't help it. For example, I'd rather die a lonely virgin than share my life with a man who I don't find attractive. Overweight men turn me off, and I can't compromise on this. With men and fat, it's all or nothing for me, and it's out of my control. Perhaps Knapp requires a model to be happy. That would be unfortunate for him. But a mentally healthy person would still keep on trying and looking for what he wanted because there would be no imaginable alternative. Knapp doesn't want anything enough to put in effort, or he has a disorder that's stopping him. The 1950s wouldn't fix that.

You ignored my suggestion that even though in the 1950s these types of people were pressured into marrying each other, it probably didn't make them happier than their equivalents are today. But seriously, two people married to each other because it's time, and nobody they found remotely desirable wanted them isn't a good start. And sex doesn't automatically happen in a marriage. Just because someone is legally married to you, it doesn't mean that they won't find sex with you a terribly bothersome chore. I think the most likely scenario for a guy in such a situation was a sexless marriage after the initial attempts to make it work, and a lifetime at the grind to provide for the kids born from those early attempts.

Our contemporary culture didn't change people, but merely exposed them for what they are and allowed them to live lives they are suited for. A guy who is too awkward and shy to approach a woman for the purposes of romance and physical intimacy today would be to shy and awkward to approach his wife about sex being important to him if it were the 50s. The types of not very desirable people who were willing to be kind, loving and supportive towards their equivalent of the opposite sex for the sake of companionship and family creation in the 1950s, still have no trouble finding each other and forming families today. Culture can force us to go through the observable motions, but everything else is still up to us.

Hacienda said...

"Within the last few weeks I've heard Indians complaining about the single white guys with no marriage overhead (and likely no life;) at Apple and the long hours they work."

I heard Walmart promotes single white guys because they are near fanatically committed to Walmart.

Is this mindset of white males really helping anyone? Really? It seems a spectacular waste to everyone and everything and VENAL as all hell. All for a little sniff of the moral superiority glue. A little sense of redemption or "I'm worthy, dammit." And it really means NOTHING in the end. And it's annoying to everyone else to be about as polite as can be about it.

Herman said...

Last I heard Descartes was a devout Catholic - not Catholic enough for Pascal - but Catholic nonetheless.

This has nothing to do with the fact that the scientific method - the priority of experimentation over argumentation (such as scholastic disputation) - isn't based on Christian theology.

Besides Cartesian philosophy, specifically its anthropocentrism, was a turn against the philosophical underpinnings of Christian theology.

This is why the social sciences are still stuck in the Dark Ages. They haven't been brought into the Enlightenment by giving experimentation authority over argumentation.

Dr Van Nostrand said...

good, you don't need our help, our lands, our counties, our universities, etc ... please leave and go back to your non-white paradise."


Eh? I never stated that non white populations are more advanced than white countries NOW but my point was to correct his arrogant assumption that whites were ALWAYS the standard bearers in culture and civilization.
I never claimed that non white countries currently are paradises, where do you get this.

As for not leaving your universities, I dont think it was Indians and Chinese who forced young whites to take up subjects like Studies in transgendered Fijian poetry and such "education".If Asians leave the STEM research departments, the universities would be crippled until atleast another 10 years till they are replaced by whites as you prefer.This is not me ,some crackpot Greater India fanatic who says this but paleo Fred Reed

http://www.fredoneverything.net/Foreigners.shtml

When I was at Michigan State in the late 90s, I was shocked that similar sounding nonsensical majors and doctorates actually exist.
No Indian or Chinese would be caught dead taking such courses as he would be a laughing stock.
There are many Asians who think whites are too stupid for engineering,obviously such a notion is silly to say the least.
However whites apparently are stupid enough to believe that a major in sociology somehow entitles them to a near six figure job!

Dr Van NOstrand said...

""Many people thought it was unhealthy to bathe. In the late 20th century, Arabs ...did not bathe as it was thought unhealthy."

By the late 20th century,Arabs were already well into their decline,Im talking about the medieval Caliphate era where Roman style baths were the norm.


"Indians bathed in the Ganges with the floating corpses"

I hate to break this to you but most Indians do not live near the Ganges!
Floating corpses was a recent phenomena perhaps due to Zoroastrian inspiration where bodies were left exposed.In general bodies were cremated and usually near one of the sacred rivers close to the village or town of the deceased.

"and the Chinese were filthy for the most part... While I don't think any one race or country should gloat over achivements, it is a massive irony that an impoverished place that has produced no advances in many centuries claims great pride in their past (why not?) while the people who are responsible for virtually everything modern technology has to offer are told they have no right to proud or take any credit for anything good their ancestors did or invented. But damn we're supposed to take the blame for anything bad they are supposed to have done."

When did I say no whites should feel pride for they have done.I was only countering the claim of the poster thats whites and no one else were responsible for civilization and it was alway so!
As for why a country like India hadnt produced anything perhaps it had something to do with being ruled and exploited by whiter people like the Mughals and the British who devastated its economy ,industry and culture.




"I knew Iranians who lived in a Gulf Arab village during the late 20th century. They finally got one of the girls they were trying to teach (they were educators) to take a bath. Her family was shocked--it was considered unhealthy. And they lived near the seashore."

Well obviously ,who takes a bath in the sea?! Its terrible for the skin!

"As for the relics of the saints, some of them were housed in Cathedrals whose architecture shows principles of Euclidian geometry (influenced perhaps by exposure to Muslim architects, who had studied the ancient Greeks),"

And the ancient Greeks studied the ancient Egyptians but then I forget the ancient Egyptians were white!!

"whose soaring architecture dating from the 13th century, is jaw-dropping still. Saints' relics also formed a lively part of Muslim tradition,"

Only among Shias, they are abhorred by the Muslim mainstream

"and the superstitions of the Hindus and Chinese are easy to find out about. "

Who had denied that Hindus and Chinese had superstitions?So many strawmen, so little time...

"Europe's superstitions were a pale shadow of those prevalent in the Indian subcontinent or even in current day modern China and Korea where they believe that a dog, terrified by seeing other dogs killed, will then make the tastiest morsel."

Does it compare to slicing and dicing a saint so that many can enjoy the presence of his holy goodness?


"Islamic civilization actually did lead in intellectual endeavors for a few centuries, and they did look down on Europeans. But that was a dangerously out of date attitude as early as the 15th century."

In the word(s) of the immorgal Breitbart-So?

"However developed the civilizations of Asia were, by the 17th century, they were going anywhere. If they had never been in contacted with Europe they would not have changed."

And you know this how?

As it is even today, many of these places have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

One could say the same about the Arabs who dragged Europeans "kicking and screaming" into the 15th century.

Lets see you mentioned above gloating is bad and yet one comes across words like "dragged kicking and screaming", interesting dont you think?

Anonymous said...

his has nothing to do with the fact that the scientific method - the priority of experimentation over argumentation (such as scholastic disputation) - isn't based on Christian theology.
yes it is - an assumption of an orderly creator behind the universe - thus it can be 'figured out'
http://takimag.com/article/when_man_invented_science/print#axzz1tSSnnskP

Anonymous said...

"The scientific method isn't based on Christian theology. It's based on prioritizing experimentation over argumentation - the opposite of Christian theology"
I think you've spend too much time watching Carl Sagan:
http://www.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk/faraday/Issues_Alexander2.php

"A second theme that we often find in the early natural philosophers is the idea that the contingency of God’s actions encourages an empirical attitude towards the natural world."

Dr Van Nostrand said...

The reason for this difference is assumed to be the low-risk cultures of the I/C grinds. Their career is too important for them to fail, so risk aversion is the norm."

As an Indian,Im afraid I agree.I remember when I began programming as a young tot with my trusty ZX Spectrum in the good old 80s,it was glorious ,fun filled time.
But somewhere down the line, it became sheer drudgery, unfortunately it seems that my people are indeed the culprits.





"Within the last few weeks I've heard Indians complaining about the single white guys with no marriage overhead (and likely no life;) at Apple and the long hours they work."

Hahahaha! Well those Indians better get used to it.
Even companies like Apple,Google and Microsoft which mouth all the PC shibboleths should at some point get their VPs of HR,Research and Product Development and think...."hmmmm ,these Srinivas Reddy and Xiyi Chang fellows are diligent ,smart and punctual but isnt there something more that we need..."

Dr Van Nostrand said...

I wouldn't speak for the world, if I were you. Have you ever traveled as a white man? I've seen (and experienced) white people getting their flights upgraded to business class from coach on several occasions, and men, in general, get more respect than women over there. I'm told that in Latin America, white men are looked upon rather favorably as well. Of course, in Eastern Europe, white men are native and very much in charge. I never got a hint of an impression that they were being shamed or feeling embarrassed about their race or gender. "


Thank you Maya, I have seen this too especially in the Middle East usually with British and American expats.Most of them are oblivious as to why they recieve this treatment but those who do realize it are somewhat embarrassed by it (though not enough to refuse the perks!And these are PC liberal whites for the most part)
To be fair, if Indians and Chinese were accorded such prestige because of their skin color they most likely would feel no guilt or remorse whatsoever and wholeheartedly take advantage of the situation!

As you mentioned, this anti white male charge is led by mostly white males , all non white males do is simply follow their lead.

This is true even with stuff not relating to white males for eg the Palestinian issue.Arab students and organizations have increasingly vociferous and aggressive when they realized they had leftist white males on their side.
A Palestinian student group shouting down a Zionist speaker in college wouldve been unthinkable in the 70s and 80s.

Marlowe said...

Last I heard Descartes was a devout Catholic - not Catholic enough for Pascal - but Catholic nonetheless.

And Sir Isaac Newton was officially an Anglican (with a degree in divinity) and secretly a Unitarian (in the sense of denying the Trinity) and a 33 degree Freemason. Even so, I don't think his religious beliefs had much to do with the Principia. It works for Buddhists and Hindus alike.

Dr Van Nostrand said...

Besides Cartesian philosophy, specifically its anthropocentrism, was a turn against the philosophical underpinnings of Christian theology.

This is why the social sciences are still stuck in the Dark Ages. They haven't been brought into the Enlightenment by giving experimentation authority over argumentation."



As a non Christian, I must say Christianity gets a bad rap for being responsible the Dark Ages in Europe.

The Catholic Church was the repository of knowledge at the time when literacy was probably less than 20%(if that).
There were some monks who carried out delightful experiments such a flying machine!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Bacon


The Dark Ages had already begun by the Christianity was firmly established.

This Gibbonian falsehood apparently is holding strong.

Similarly the notion that medieval Europeans believed that earth was flat was completely false.This slander against Christian society can be traced to Washinton Irving(Sleepy Hollow guy) a rationalist who had a burning hatred against the Catholic Church.

Those in the clergy who were wary of Columbus's voyage were more concerned about more practical matters such as the distance to India(great job there Senor Colon)and if he would get back alive,rather than being motivated by the fear of him traversing the section of the map "here dragons lie"

Anonymous said...

Wikipedia seems really useful for say, looking up what a solar flare is or perhaps learning the quick definition of a business acronym. However, the vast majority of wiki edits (and edit wars) contribute no utilitarian nor entertainment value.

Yeah, I'm talking about all of the fanboy B.S.

Anonymous said...

Does it compare to slicing and dicing a saint so that many can enjoy the presence of his holy goodness?
Sati. Devdasi, etc, etc.
Talk about strawmen - you're tryingto argue that orientals are more creative and civlized than the west

One could say the same about the Arabs who dragged Europeans "kicking and screaming" into the 15th century.
Do you really believe this? You're full of shit. First of all the university is the product of the middle age Christian europe.

Under Isabella, Salmanca had a female professor - - any in Islam....uh no.. as unthinkable as a queen ruling.

Christian visual art - do you want to even compare little poorly drawn characters in poorly illustrated porn collections to Gitto, or even a pre-Rennaissance french norman sculture.

By the time the sultan invited bellini to court he was 'freaked out' by his realistic depictions of the jannissaries (he thought that they would 'come to life')

British who devastated its economy ,industry and culture.
Wrong. Where do you get your information? It was the British who preserved hindu temples - muslims destroyed them - I guess if you say the british wiped out sati and thuggee- you're right - they 'devastated' the 'vibrant' culture.

It was the English who first documented Indian history and culture -
show me a muslim/moghul who did this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tod
http://www.mewarindia.com/noncomm/public/Colonel%20James%20Tod%20Award.html
Colonel James Tod Award
estd. 1996

"I look upon Mewar as the land of my adoption..."
-- Lieutenant-Colonel James Tod
Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan (1832).

In recognition of his services and experience in Rajputana, Colonel James Tod (then Captain), was appointed by Lord Hastings, Governor General, as Political Agent to the Western Rajput States, resident at the court of Maharana Bhim Singhji in Udaipur. Colonel Tod's official charge was to manage the affairs and relations of the British east India Company with Mewar. He executed his duties with skill and authority, and there grew in him, an enduring affection for the State of Mewar.

In addition to his official duties, Colonel Tod spent a great deal of his own time and resources in the collection of historical documents, inscriptions, bardic accounts and genealogies of the Rajput families, and paintings from Rajasthan. It was here, in Udaipur, that Colonel Tod began, for the first time, to synthesise the history of Rajputana. Upon his return to England, Colonel Tod continued his research, culminating in the publication of the now classic Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan (2 volumes). Colonel Tod's reliance on oral, bardic accounts of Mewar history preserved a valuable corpus of historical source material.

His late Highness, Maharana Bhagwat Singhji established The Maharana Mewar Foundation to serve and assist man to realise his special status in the hierarchy of God's creations. Colonel James Tod introduced his Annals in the following way:

"To see humanity under every aspect, and to observe the influence of different creeds upon man in his social capacity, must be one of the highest sources of mental enjoyment."

It is in the spirit of these like-minded men, centuries apart that this award has been instituted.

The Colonel James Tod Award is an International Award. It has been instituted to honour a foreign national who, like Tod, has contributed through his works of permanent value an understanding of the spirit and values of Mewar.

The annual International Award consists of:

Cash award of Rs. 51,001/-
A silver "Toran" plaque of honour
A ceremonial shawl



and the economy? If india had not had Christian educational systems (mostly english but some portegues) put in place or absorbed western thought (like Ghandi, though he dressed it up in indian robes) or the railroad, they would be far more backwards than they are today.

You're a very silly man.

Anonymous said...

One could say the same about the Arabs who dragged Europeans "kicking and screaming" into the 15th century.
I thought you were just trying to 'correct' notions of western superiority, Saul.

Since you're so big on strawmen, you care to provide any documentation of Arabs 'civilizing' us?

This 'middle ages=dark barbaric europe' is leftover (very stale leftovers, by the way) propganda from the Enlightenment/secular humanist movements.

I guess you have to avoid reality when it's necessary to keep that world view, much like the NYT does.

Are you white or a minority of some sort " Dr Van NOstrand"?
If white you're the classic SWPL liberal. If not, you're a walking argument for deportation

Hacienda said...

"Anybody feel sorry for the encyclopedia Britannica editor that lost his job to that mook?"

No. Wikipedia is generally excellent. Covers more subjects, current, and actually great for finding different viewpoints on even political subjects (just read the talk page). And it's FREE!

One of the wonders of the web.

ed dorado said...

"n the word(s) of the immorgal Breitbart-So?"

Beitbart? Who?

"However developed the civilizations of Asia were, by the 17th century, they were going anywhere. If they had never been in contacted with Europe they would not have changed."

And you know this how?

Oh, may because they weren't. I guess it's possible after many centuries, perhaps a few awakened souls would have come forward. However, Europe jump started the process.

"s it is even today, many of these places have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century."

That comes from a book on Middle Eastern and Islamic history. I cannot remember the author, but he was on the reading list at University and he was a major name in the field, and not at all anti-Arab. Would it matter if I knew the author's name? You would not agree with him anyway. I read other books on the subject, and most were concurrent.
You have given no reason to indicate any advances of "Arabs" (Turks? Persians? Pashtuns?) were greater than those of Europe after the 14th century.
I continue to see no evidence that any societal or cultural advances would have taken place in Asian lands without exposure to European influence. Virtually every move towards "progress" as defined by basic human rights, came from European, and in some cases Christian, influence. And I'm not even Christian. I am not "gloating." Just stating a fact. Footbinding in China -- a torture perpetrated on about 80% of Chinese girls by 1910 -- persisted for 1000 years despite the attempts of some Chinese and Manchurians to eliminate it, it was that ingrained. Only when foreigners exposed the custom, humiliated them with photos of deformed feet, was the custom finally stopped. The Japanese had also tried to stop it when they were in China in the ealy 20th century, but the Japanese by that time were "westernized" in many ways. There were also many negative things brought by European and Christian influence--these are far more popular in most forums. Unfortunately, your choir to whom you preach is not numerous here.

Anonymous said...

"Indians bathed in the Ganges with the floating corpses"

"I hate to break this to you but most Indians do not live near the Ganges!
Floating corpses was a recent phenomena perhaps due to Zoroastrian inspiration where bodies were left exposed.In general bodies were cremated and usually near one of the sacred rivers close to the village or town of the deceased."

I'll break this to ya: we know that. It is, however, a well photographed thing and most Indians do hope to get to the sacred river for a dip.
Most had to bathe in stagnant ponds, dug for each village.

Anonymous said...

Human fat was supposed to alleviate rheumatism and arthritis, while a paste made from corpses was believed to help against contusions."

"The practice was not always a success. In 1492, when Pope Innocent VIII was on his deathbed, his doctors bled three boys and had the pope drink their blood. The boys died, and so did the pope."

And yet by the 19th century we have anesthesia and discovery of germ theory. I know about Islamic physicians and their skills, but what happened to their knowledge? They too were bleeding & purging, mainly, by the 19th century, and western doctors traveling there found no marvels of hygiene or pain relief to write home about.

I suppose you trade stories about superstitions forever, but the facts are: Europe jumped forward in material progress, as measured by goods and services deeply desired by most people. There is just no evidence that any progress would have taken place without exposure to the West.
I don't know what happened to the much vaunted civilization of Muslims between 700AD and about 1300AD, but the most educational thing current Arabs, Persians and Turks could do to enlighten the West would be to find out the reasons for their own decline and be as honest about it as you expect us to be about Western failings.

Kylie said...

"The Neckbeard in question sure does arouse insecurities in many of the commenters.

How many people read this site while trapped in a crappy career, crappy marriage, crappy mortgage, crappy town?

Do you keep telling yourself that you must be the 'winner'?"


Well, the comments sure brought out something in you.

I am genuinely content with my life. Nor does every man have to resemble George C. Looney or Brad the Pitt for me to find him attractive. I used to love it when a (happily married) bearded fat man I knew flirted with me. But he was flawlessly groomed, smell wonderful and always wore soft fabrics in beautiful colors. Once I was so busy flirting with a man who had gorgeous green eyes and a devilish grin that it was only after he left and my friend mentioned it that I realized he was a legless man in a wheelchair.

But this guy is just plain disgusting.

I never tell myself I must be the winner (though when replying to Truth, I tell myself it's an absolute certainty). But I do tell myself I must be neat, clean and presentable at all times. Apparently, this guy tells himself something quite different to that. When you look like you need to be shorn and autoclaved, then you can expect a flood of negative comments about your appearance.

Anonymous said...

He's willing to share so much knowledge for free. He aint a bad guy.

Anonymous said...

There are many Asians who think whites are too stupid for engineering...

And too stupid to win a Fields Medal.

And too stupid to win a Nobel Prize in Physics or Chemistry.

And too stupid to win a Turing Award.

And so on and so forth.

Too stupid really to do much of anything useful.

I mean, why not just get rid of 'em altogether?

Seriously, who needs white people?!?

Londoner said...

Anonymous who posted at 9:09 on 4/29/12 - I suspect that the best way to label nuclear waste in the very long term is with as unequivocal a symbol of "death" as possible - probably a skull and crossbones - etched feet deep into whatever protective container and mountainside holds it. It's easy enough to imagine compromised nuclear waste storage sites becoming mythologized as locations of supernatural dread/portals to hell by our remote descendants, or for any other new(ly) intelligent species that come after us.

Virtually none of our current data storage methods have much hope of surviving into the distant future. Even if no apocalypse or dark age does happen, simple decay will erode almost everything. If there's any real collective will to leave even a tiny part of our collective learning to posterity then we would do well to carve as much as we can on the hardest of stone and the least reactive of metals and put it somewhere very safe. Half a million years from now, Mount Rushmore might be the last surviving evidence that intelligent life ever existed on Earth.

el dorado said...

"As for why a country like India hadnt produced anything perhaps it had something to do with being ruled and exploited by whiter people like the Mughals and the British who devastated its economy ,industry and culture."


These conquerors didn't "devastate" a damn thing, and the Indian decline had set in long before the Moguls. The caste systems and a fatalistic acceptance of what you were born into, did more to "devastate" any forward directed creativity and accomplishment.
It probably set in shortly after they invented the zero. In the mists of time, the Veddic teachings did come up with a high level of mathematics, and it was under British rule that a number of brilliant mathematicians emerged. Nobody stopped them from studying or performing. Quite the contrary--command of the English language and access to some of the best education in the world, enable a number of world class scholars and theoretical inventors.

Anyway, the East India Company was a trade monopoly, not Tamerlane bent on rule-by-destruction. They meddled with Indian culture very little, except to prohibit suttee (immolation of widows) and forbid child marriage and female infanticide. Far from destroying Indians, they seem to have caused more to survivie when you consider that.
There were whole villages in a few locales of the Rajput where no female babies were raised at all until the infanticide was outlawed.
On the negative side, British management of the economy may have exacerbated famines. But they did not "devastate" the culture. When the British left in 1948, a surprising number of Indian villagers, when asked about it, were unaware the British had ever been there. That's the kind of claptrap that we are countering.

Hacienda said...

"I continue to see no evidence that any societal or cultural advances would have taken place in Asian lands without exposure to European influence."

It's beneath me to answer this, but what the hell.

You're an idiot.

Anonymous said...

"And the ancient Greeks studied the ancient Egyptians but then I forget the ancient Egyptians were white!!"

Expected.
I have no idea what Egyptians considered themselves, although the DNA of Young King Tut was shown to be more western European than anything. That means little to me because the great achievements of Egypt occurred long, long before King Tut, who may or may not have been related to the people who actually built the Great Pyramid. But I think we know where the real controversy lies. Were they more related to Louis Farrakhan or Zawi Hawass, Egyptian curator of antiquities, who has his own opinions and they don't make Al Sharpton happy.
Race aside, the Egyptians themselves did not know the geometry that went into the Great Pyramid. They did not develop higher mathematics. The ignorance of Egyptians of mathematics is well known in the antiquities field. The miracle pyramid who nobody can figure out, is the Great Pyramid. It went up long before the Egyptians we all know and love were born.
The Greeks did not get their higher mathematics from Egyptians. You'd have been more correct citing ancient Veddic texts for that. In any case, they didn't just copy. They used and built on it.

Charlotte said...

Anonymous said...
"Folks like this privileged white male are both a curse and a blessing of Wikipedia. 90% of the time I am grateful to them for dredging all that info and putting it together and 10% of the time I wish that people who have no idea about the subject would just live it alone and not write utter falsehoods. "


Yeah. I like having the basic dates and links and names, but for the real content I want -- an expert. When the Encylopedia Britannica or World Book put together an edition, they got the latest info and polished the writing to perfection. They had to get it right, as it would be years before it would be updated. You could trust those publications, as far as they went and they were clear about how far they would go.
I come across falsehoods and misunderstandings in Wiki, and long to correct them. I did try to edit one article with some info I knew to be true, but it was too complicated, and why should anyone trust me anyway? Where are the reviewers? The experts? I'm as mistrustful as anyone of "peer review" and gatekeepers, but they do serve a purpose.
It's not for lack of willingness that women don't try and write for Wiki. They just tend to assume they shouldn't be messing around with "official" documents. They are timid like that and think there must be rules about it they don't know.

Anonymous said...

there are many Asians who think whites are too stupid for engineering...
usually said from the comfort of a white majority country..

when are the HBD whites going to realize that orientals are not the bestest buddies for life?

Anonymous said...

Even so, I don't think his religious beliefs had much to do with the Principia.
wrong. I dont know why komment kontrol didn't let it through (steve this is getting really tiring)
but i posted several links documenting the scientific method's roots in Christian theology - and Kepler and Newton are two 'classic' cases - Carl Sagan and other scots irish often tried to downplay/deny this.

Anonymous said...

"This is why the social sciences are still stuck in the Dark Ages. They haven't been brought into the Enlightenment by giving experimentation authority over argumentation."

The Church rebuked their scientists more gently than the enlightened French Revolutionaries treated Lavoisier - chop chop. But he wasn't a social scientist, maybe they were nicer to those guys.

Your statement begs for an example; when was the last a foray into the social sciences was thwarted by Scholasticism? Which social science? - it is such a broad category.

Wikipedia Fan Boy said...

With the price of oil rising, I was curious, so I Wikied "peak oil". I wondered why there hasn't been a huge shift towards nuclear power and I wondered how much Uranium is really out there, so I Wikied "peak uranium". I was shocked that there was an entry, and that there is an opinion that we have reached peak uranium - this is not just names and dates - these are some pretty esoteric topics.

Anonymous said...

"It's beneath me to answer this, but what the hell.

You're an idiot."


Well, you know what they say. When you can't refute the content of someone's assertions, then attack the person with insults.

Don't see evidence anybody was going anywhere for several centuries prior to the 20th, in what we now call the "third world." They were totally stagnating cultures whose best days were long behind them. I don't know why you're so resistant to this. You should take comfort that the same thing may happen yet to the "West."

The Old Man of the Mountain said...

Half a million years from now, Mount Rushmore might be the last surviving evidence that intelligent life ever existed on Earth.

Hello!!!

Anonymous said...

With the price of oil rising, I was curious, so I Wikied "peak oil". I wondered why there hasn't been a huge shift towards nuclear power and I wondered how much Uranium is really out there, so I Wikied "peak uranium". I was shocked that there was an entry, and that there is an opinion that we have reached peak uranium - this is not just names and dates - these are some pretty esoteric topics.

Have you ever wikied "abiotic oil"?

Peter Kang said...

"Well, you know what they say. When you can't refute the content of someone's assertions, then attack the person with insults."

That still doesn't change the fact you're an idiot.

Truth said...

"I used to love it when a (happily married) bearded fat man I knew flirted with me."

"he was flawlessly groomed, smell wonderful and always wore soft fabrics in beautiful colors."

Did you mean to say that he was bearded, or that his wife was "a beard?"

Darfur Miller said...

Anonymous who posted at 9:09 on 4/29/12 - I suspect that the best way to label nuclear waste in the very long term is with as unequivocal a symbol of "death" as possible - probably a skull and crossbones - etched feet deep into whatever protective container and mountainside holds it. It's easy enough to imagine compromised nuclear waste storage sites becoming mythologized as locations of supernatural dread/portals to hell by our remote descendants, or for any other new(ly) intelligent species that come after us.

Virtually none of our current data storage methods have much hope of surviving into the distant future. Even if no apocalypse or dark age does happen, simple decay will erode almost everything. If there's any real collective will to leave even a tiny part of our collective learning to posterity then we would do well to carve as much as we can on the hardest of stone and the least reactive of metals and put it somewhere very safe. Half a million years from now, Mount Rushmore might be the last surviving evidence that intelligent life ever existed on Earth.


There have indeed been several efforts to address these problems. The Clock of the Long Now project, for one.

There is no convenient or practical archival digital storage method readily available. Digital data icons such as are used for scanning with mobile devices today and bar codes can be photographed with archival films, but no standards exist nor any convenient hardware marketed. Punched mylar tape in the format used by old school NC machines and Teletype machines is another but the bit density is orders of magnitude too small for modern data sets. A megabyte takes up a good bookcase. A gigabyte would fill a large house.

Properly processed monochrome films and Kodachrome, but not other color films, can last millenia when buried or submerged if properly packaged. But look on the bright side: images of Marilyn Monroe will certainly be around longer than those of Britney Spears or Lindsay Lohan!

Darfur Miller said...

Zawi Hawass is unpopular with the _art Smell set because he won't let them dig under the Sphinx, where they believe a library to rival or surpass that of Alexandria awaits.

Anonymous said...

"Acquiring knowledge should hurt" should be the motto of Wikipedia detractors. It still does hurt except guys like Justin Knapp have decided to bear more than their share of the pain. The pain has been socialized. When it evolves into a University, Wiki U will be even more vilified - a lot of people make a hefty sum bilking misdirected students out of a lot of dough (think of every person who checks "some college" on a survey.)

I gotta go. I'm desperate to look up The Clock of the Long Now - on Wikipedia.

Anonymous said...

"Is this mindset of white males really helping anyone? Really? It seems a spectacular waste to everyone and everything and VENAL as all hell. All for a little sniff of the moral superiority glue."


You're making it sound so optional and thought-out. Consider the possibility that it just comes naturally, that they enjoy working, that they are workaholics, it's a natural state, they enjoy being in the zone. They'd do it if no one ever knew. Like the proverbial fish that doesn't know about water.

This thread hasn't mentioned that this guy is just one of something much bigger than just the wikipedia. No need to go back and look at the middle ages... no need to talk about eligibility...

Much of the modern Internet infrastructure, the majority of the web servers that we all use, the Android smart phones, the core of the Max OS X, the Linux systems that are now everywhere (like in Android), the compilers for just about everything today and on and on.... all are "open source" systems. Written by communities of guys (and yeah, it's almost entirely guys) writing software and giving it away. Much of this stuff has been written by guys who never made any money from it at all, never achieved any acclaim, and yet here we are. (You can roughly check the racial composition of many of these communities, and while there are folks from every background, yeah, the vast majority are boring white guys.)

I say we should all invest a lot of time in really criticizing these bozos! On the Internet! That'll show 'em! ;)

Anonymous said...

200 comments would be an apt tribute to Knapp!

Steve Sailer said...

All 200 written for free, too, just like Knapp's million edits.

Anonymous said...

What's in a name?
I looked up the name origin:German: occupational name or status name from the German word Knapp(e), a variant of Knabe ‘young unmarried man’. In the 15th century this spelling acquired the separate, specialized meanings ‘servant’, ‘apprentice’, or ‘miner’.German

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

What's in a name?

I looked up the name origin:German: occupational name or status name from the German word Knapp(e), a variant of Knabe ‘young unmarried man’. In the 15th century this spelling acquired the separate, specialized meanings ‘servant’, ‘apprentice’, or ‘miner’."

Actually "knapp" is german for "scarce".

Anonymous said...

I'm tapped out, but I think the women here have reasons for offering a dozen (at least) apologies.

Anonymous said...

calling someone a nerd for intellectual interests reflects on their intelligence, character, and their lack of knowledge in the art of living. Only the truly educated live fully human lives. I find his broad interests and knowledge a much more productive use of time then someone dedicating themselves to some narrow profession with practical knowledge that benefits society but does nothing for ones own growth and perspective. Money and Status are the only reasons to get a job if you truly are intelligent. The other being you want to contribute to the world, and he is doing much more service because his work reaches the whole world, not just the few people he helps if he held a regular respectable job.

I feel someone who dedicates themselves autistically to any pursuit, whether it be bodybuilding, fitness, martial arts, technology, computers, videogames, games, sports, anything, particularly brainless activities, are definitely wasting their time compared to this guy.

"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest" - Ben Franklin

Dr Van Nostrand said...

And too stupid to win a Fields Medal.

And too stupid to win a Nobel Prize in Physics or Chemistry.

And too stupid to win a Turing Award.

And so on and so forth.

Too stupid really to do much of anything useful.

I mean, why not just get rid of 'em altogether?"

Try reading my post again...slowly this time

Dr Van Nostrand said...

These conquerors didn't "devastate" a damn thing, and the Indian decline had set in long before the Moguls. The caste systems and a fatalistic acceptance of what you were born into, did more to "devastate" any forward directed creativity and accomplishment."

I hate to embarrass those who think the caste system was bane of Hinduism but what the hell.Hey how come Muslims managed to destroy each and every civilization from North Africa ,Persia,Byzantium(and their rich traditions of egalitarianism no doubt) but India managed to survive and hold on to a great part of its traditions.


It probably set in shortly after they invented the zero. In the mists of time, the Veddic teachings did come up with a high level of mathematics, and it was under British rule that a number of brilliant mathematicians emerged. Nobody stopped them from studying or performing."

And nobody stopped them of being loyal slaves while they were at it.They were however actively discouraged from claiming that their civilization was worth preserving,they were taught utter falsehoods that Hindus were servile,feeble race(though perhaps they became that way after a 1000 years of fighting Muslims and enduring mass destruction of peoples,cultures and wealth)


Quite the contrary--command of the English language and access to some of the best education in the world, enable a number of world class scholars and theoretical inventors."

Which benefited a small slavish Anglophilic elite while the vast majority who had fought employment in the local industries were given the pink slip when manufacturing and textiles was shut and Indians were compelled to buy English cotton and other goods.I love how you paleos whine about a technocratic elite and an near illiterate underclass in your own countries but its suddenly a blessing to another country because whites have done to bring "civilization"!



Anyway, the East India Company was a trade monopoly, not Tamerlane bent on rule-by-destruction."

There are other ways of destruction than by Tamerlane method-how about unfair trade practice,demolishing industries and such.

They meddled with Indian culture very little, except to prohibit suttee (immolation of widows) and forbid child marriage and female infanticide.

So that settles that, show those savages who is boss?Say was that about the same time that British were throwing little girls for yeras on end in prison for stealing loaves of bread

"Far from destroying Indians, they seem to have caused more to survivie when you consider that.
There were whole villages in a few locales of the Rajput where no female babies were raised at all until the infanticide was outlawed.
On the negative side, British management of the economy may have exacerbated famines.

Love the weasel words ,"British management of the economy" ..surely you mean MISmanagement! "may have",they wholeheartedly had!There is no "may" about it.
"excarbated famines" ,nearly six million dead in Bengal alone ,mostly to divert rice and manpower to fight a war in which Indians had no stake.So please spare the uh "claptrap" that Indians owe British anything.


But they did not "devastate" the culture."

They devastated its economy and whether they saved a few temples means absolutely nothing.

When the British left in 1948, a surprising number of Indian villagers, when asked about it, were unaware the British had ever been there. That's the kind of claptrap that we are countering."

Ill tell what kind of claptrap you are producing,of course the British would prefer not to go to the countryside! They had bad experiences with in 1805,1957 and even earlier with the wars with Tipu Sultan where the country dwellers were prone to treat the foreigners with outright hostility and rebellion.Which is why they arranged proxies!

Dr Van Nostrand said...

Sati. Devdasi, etc, etc."

Embarking on an empire thru piracy and slave trade etc.,do you really want to do this?

Talk about strawmen - you're tryingto argue that orientals are more creative and civlized than the west"

I wouldnt say "are" but "were"!

One could say the same about the Arabs who dragged Europeans "kicking and screaming" into the 15th century.
Do you really believe this?

No, my point it is as credible as your claim that others were brought kicking and screaming in the 21st century by the white man!


First of all the university is the product of the middle age Christian europe."

Please tell me that you are not implying that the university didnot exist before medieval Europe.
I suppose Nalanda and Taxila are mere figments of Indian imagination!

"Under Isabella, Salmanca had a female professor - - any in Islam....uh no.. as unthinkable as a queen ruling."

Is having a female professor the alpha and omega of an education?Are you woman studies major by any chance?

Christian visual art - do you want to even compare little poorly drawn characters in poorly illustrated porn collections to Gitto, or even a pre-Rennaissance french norman sculture."

No because Indians werent as big on painting as the Europeans were and therefore the latter were much better at it.But sculpture on the other hand is a different matter.Most Chola bronzes are easily comparable to the best of European sculpture.And dont be cross on Kamasutra just because you cant practice it!




"British who devastated its economy ,industry and culture.
Wrong. Where do you get your information? It was the British who preserved hindu temples - muslims destroyed them - I guess if you say the british wiped out sati and thuggee- you're right - they 'devastated' the 'vibrant' culture."

More pathetic attempts at moral superiority.Shall we go into the British legal code at the time and check how it dealt with minors?


It was the English who first documented Indian history and culture -
show me a muslim/moghul who did this:"

You seem to be very confused.When did I ever defend the Mughals?
I LOATHE the Mughals


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tod


"I look upon Mewar as the land of my adoption..."
-- Lieutenant-Colonel James Tod
Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan (1832).

Col. Todd stuff deleted

Sure,he had great affection for his loyal slave troops.Aside from that,for every Colonel Todd there were a 100 others like Winston Churchill ("India is a beastly country with a beastly religion"..I dont think the goblin like Churchill should be so free in free in describing some as beastly but whatever)

They had managed to introduced some fantastic theories like Aryan and Dravidian races which had devastated Indian and Hindu unity to this day.The British went out of their way to deHinduize Sikhs and thanks to them India had to deal with the Khalistan movement.

Their ridiculous martial races had been disproved repeatedly ,esp by Americans during WWII,but cranks like Churchill held on those notions for dear life.





and the economy? If india had not had Christian educational systems (mostly english but some portegues)

The Portuguese had come bringing the Inquisition though only in Goa.Thanks but no thanks!

put in place or absorbed western thought (like Ghandi, though he dressed it up in indian robes) or the railroad, they would be far more backwards than they are today.

Haha! Yes If it werent for socialist Luddite Tolstoy pacifist Gandhi we would be backward, this would be news to even the brazen of Congress propagandists!As for the railroad, yes it is just impossible to imagine an independent Indian state importing Western engineers to work on its railroad ,universities and infrastructure,why that is just silly!

You're a very silly man."

And you prove the dictum that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Dr Van Nostrand said...

I have no idea what Egyptians considered themselves,"

Right because no one does.Race did not mean to them what it means to us.


although the DNA of Young King Tut was shown to be more western European than anything. "


Egyptians were most likely a mix of Berber,Somali and some sub Saharan African.
King Tut couldve had been had DNA from Hyksos(fair skinned Syrians) or Sea Peoples(who were Hellenized Norther Europeans)


That means little to me because the great achievements of Egypt occurred long, long before King Tut, who may or may not have been related to the people who actually built the Great Pyramid.

The modern day Egyptians retain the blood of Ethiopians,Assyrians,Persians,Greeks,Romans,Arabs,Turks and other invaders who made a significant demographic impact.
It is near meaningless to look for the original Egyptians.


But I think we know where the real controversy lies. Were they more related to Louis Farrakhan or Zawi Hawass, Egyptian curator of antiquities, who has his own opinions and they don't make Al Sharpton happy.


Hahah!The movie Sadat with black actor Louis Gosset Jr playing the title role as banned in Egypt as they didnt want a black to portray the beloved Egyptian President.Sadat himself was very conscious of his dark skin and sub saharan African features."

Race aside, the Egyptians themselves did not know the geometry that went into the Great Pyramid. They did not develop higher mathematics. The ignorance of Egyptians of mathematics is well known in the antiquities field. "

But then neither did the Romans, but both knew enough to construct magnificient monuments.

The miracle pyramid who nobody can figure out, is the Great Pyramid. It went up long before the Egyptians we all know and love were born.
The Greeks did not get their higher mathematics from Egyptians."

Not higher mathematics but basic geometry required for construction.


You'd have been more correct citing ancient Veddic texts for that. In any case, they didn't just copy. They used and built on it."

The Vedic people and Greeks were a bit of a mutual admiration society , though the Vedic appreciation of Greeks was a bit backhanded.According to the Hindus, if it werent for their contributions to astronomy, the Greeks wouldve remained barbarians!
Much of Hindu astrology(astronomy of yore) of today owes much to Greeks.

Dr Van Nostrand said...

Oh, may because they weren't."

Boy that sure is well reasoned,sound and thougtful response!

That comes from a book on Middle Eastern and Islamic history. I cannot remember the author, but he was on the reading list at University and he was a major name in the field, and not at all anti-Arab."

Yes, a book whose name and author you cant remember but lets take your word for it-hes not anti Arab!


Would it matter if I knew the author's name? You would not agree with him anyway. I read other books on the subject, and most were concurrent.
You have given no reason to indicate any advances of "Arabs" (Turks? Persians? Pashtuns?)"

What do these people have to do with anything?We are discussing Arabs,not Muslims as whole

were greater than those of Europe after the 14th century.

Ugh, once again my point was not that whites are currently inferior to Arabs, it is counter the nonsense that whites were ALWAYS the standard bearers of civilization and no others!

I continue to see no evidence that any societal or cultural advances would have taken place in Asian lands without exposure to European influence."

Which Europeans?Which Asians?In which eras?You see where I am going with this?


Virtually every move towards "progress" as defined by basic human rights, came from European, and in some cases Christian, influence.

Last time I checked Christians had transcontinental slave trade while Hindus and Buddhists did not.They had legalized discrimination against a certain pre Christian sect which was far harsher than its Islamic counterparts.
Sure a dissident of the state today is better living in the West than in say China or the Middle East but thats not my point.


And I'm not even Christian. I am not "gloating." Just stating a fact. Footbinding in China -- a torture perpetrated on about 80% of Chinese girls by 1910 -- persisted for 1000 years despite the attempts of some Chinese and Manchurians to eliminate it, it was that ingrained. "

Hmmmm, I have to wonder if North American women wouldnt submit themselves to such torture if it ensured that they could fit into a darling set of Jimmy choos?



Only when foreigners exposed the custom, humiliated them with photos of deformed feet, was the custom finally stopped. "


I suppose around the same time Western women had no longer had to endure corsets and garters.


The Japanese had also tried to stop it when they were in China in the ealy 20th century, but the Japanese by that time were "westernized" in many ways."


Were they Westernized only when they did good things such as a progressive view on womens fashion but also when indulged in mass rape, genocide and slavery.Or do you attribute the latter habits to Asiatic savagery alone?Just curious.






There were also many negative things brought by European and Christian influence--these are far more popular in most forums. Unfortunately, your choir to whom you preach is not numerous here"

Indeed, I intended to preach that whites were not always civilized though they are now(more so than most non white countries).I intended to preach that though whites have done good things in brown countires, their disagreable contributions to those countries has equalled or outweighed the former.
Apparently I am not accustomed to preaching to the type of choir which thinks "my white race,right or wrong" and disregards evidence which contradicts that mode of thought.In that you are correct.

Dr Van Nostrand said...

One could say the same about the Arabs who dragged Europeans "kicking and screaming" into the 15th century.
I thought you were just trying to 'correct' notions of western superiority, Saul."

Who is Saul?And yes I was.


Since you're so big on strawmen, you care to provide any documentation of Arabs 'civilizing' us?

If you cant see mocking me the original poster claim with the analogy,what good is your superior white brain?



This 'middle ages=dark barbaric europe' is leftover (very stale leftovers, by the way) propganda from the Enlightenment/secular humanist movements."

Yes,I had defended medieval christianity from this charge as well,please learn to read my posts before jumping to conclusions.



I guess you have to avoid reality when it's necessary to keep that world view, much like the NYT does. "

I wouldnt know, rarely read the NYT ,I am conservative after all.


Are you white or a minority of some sort " Dr Van NOstrand"?

I love how anonymous posters getting all huffy with another anonymous posters who use a random nom de plume!Yes,Im a non white if thats so important to you.I wouldve thought you wouldve figured it out already.But then again from your uh "reasoning" , I guess its your demographic who Charles Murray had in mind when he wrote his latest book.


If white you're the classic SWPL liberal. If not, you're a walking argument for deportation"

Well, I dont reside in the U.S but if I did I probably would be working in a white collar profession in the energy industry but I dont as the taxes are too high and one day I would like to start my own business but its a less than friendly environment.Im sure the Feds would have no problem deporting a guy like me.Never mind "non documented" Mexican thugs go around raping and murdering white women right under your noses.

Boy you sure know how to pick your fights! I believe U.S should remain a white majority country,immigration from non white countries should either end or be severely restricted for the next 40 years and H1B visas are killing the U.S job market particularly for engineering majors.And that U.S is Judeo Christian country(sorry paleos for saying Judeo but there it is) and that that the White House has no business celebrating Ramadhan,Diwali and what have you.Also that English should be the national language,learn it or get out.

There, I hope your head has exploded by now.

Dr Van Nostrand said...

No. Wikipedia is generally excellent. Covers more subjects, current, and actually great for finding different viewpoints on even political subjects (just read the talk page). And it's FREE"

I agree ,many of wikipedias critics are in time warp of 2006-207 where it was the gathering ground crackpots and pranksters.

I remember reading something about CERN when all of a sudden a pornographic passage came up!

Those days are gone and the quality control and references are as solid as ever.

Dr Van Nostrand said...

I'll break this to ya: we know that. It is, however, a well photographed thing and most Indians do hope to get to the sacred river for a dip.
Most had to bathe in stagnant ponds, dug for each village."

Yes and this contradicts my point, how?

Dr Van Nostrand said...

el dorado said

Beitbart? Who?

Isnt it ironic that to get such a response when the original post was about wikipedia!!

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