December 2, 2011

Work hard, study hard, riot hard

Here's an amusing article by Amanda Ripley in Time:
On a wet Wednesday evening in Seoul, six government employees gather at the office to prepare for a late-night patrol. The mission is as simple as it is counterintuitive: to find children who are studying after 10 p.m. And stop them. 
In South Korea, it has come to this. To reduce the country's addiction to private, after-hours tutoring academies (called hagwons), the authorities have begun enforcing a curfew — even paying citizens bounties to turn in violators. ... 
But cramming is deeply embedded in Asia, where top grades — and often nothing else — have long been prized as essential for professional success. Before toothbrushes or printing presses, there were civil service exams that could make or break you. Chinese families have been hiring test-prep tutors since the 7th century. Modern-day South Korea has taken this competition to new extremes. In 2010, 74% of all students engaged in some kind of private after-school instruction, sometimes called shadow education, at an average cost of $2,600 per student for the year. There are more private instructors in South Korea than there are schoolteachers, and the most popular of them make millions of dollars a year from online and in-person classes. When Singapore's Education Minister was asked last year about his nation's reliance on private tutoring, he found one reason for hope: "We're not as bad as the Koreans."

In other news, South Koreans are the world's best organized rioters.

132 comments:

Kaz said...

Holy crap they actually recognize it as a problem.

Maybe there is some hope..

Anonymous said...

Obama administrations' war against Caucasians cointinues: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/education/us-urges-campus-creativity-to-gain-diversity.html?hp

An Unmarried Man said...

I suppose diligence is like cleanliness. However, saintliness is thoroughly overrated and gutted upon death.

Reg Cæsar said...

What's the opposite of "truant officer"?

"Tiger tamer"?

Maya said...

Well, my former fellow hagwon teachers will thank them. On the other hand, if they cut down on the number of hours a hagwon's allowed to provide services, it might start taking more than a pulse, a fake college degree and a note from your hometown sheriff that you're, most likely, not a pedophile to get a teaching job in Korea.

agnostic said...

Unlike all other East Asian people, South Koreans have experienced a steadily rising homicide rate since at least 1995, the earliest I could find data.

I'm not sure how far back their reputation for rioting goes, but it's probably just one part of the broader recent cultural change due to the rising violence rate. Some others:

South Korean exceptionalism

A few nights ago in Starbucks I saw a group of Korean guys and one girl hanging out. Two of the guys started physically goofing with each other, one using the flappy ends of his jacket sleeves to slap the other on the side, and the other pushing him in return.

Can't remember the last time I saw Asians do anything like rough-housing. Come to think of it, I usually don't see them hunched over a laptop in Starbucks either, which is most common among Chinese and somewhat among Japanese.

It seems like they're the most likely of Asians to have a life, like Westerners used to in the '60s, '70s, and '80s when our societies were more violent too.

Anonymous said...

your problem Steve is that you use the past to predict the future..

not unreasonable.

but can you see the folly in that???

Inferno Express said...

Jesus H. Christ - no wonder their IQs are higher than vanilla whites' (one explanation of why Ashkenazi Jews' IQs are higher, is that they culturally value intelligence so highly, => marital selection). I guess this fits that pattern, with Ashkenazis' extra boost explained by mistreatment by 'vanilla whites'. Yeah I'm saying nothing new, but I'd never made the connection before; was there evolutionary time, I wonder? Something like 20 generations, 400 years, per E.O. Wilson, for it to begin to show - yeah, plenty of time.

jody said...

as i get more into korea, the things i find are pretty surprising.

i've talked to some younger korean guys in the US who are genuinely concerned about the korean addiction to studying. one guy was telling me that the night after finals ended at his high school, he went to starbucks to get a drink and wind down by sipping his coffee and surfing the internet - and he was shocked and saddened to see some of his classmates in there, STUDYING. the night after finals had ended and they were going to graduate.

china, japan, and korea are pretty different from each other. they're at least as different from each other as the european nations are. modern koreans seem to be the most interesting though, i would say.

it could be just a demographic thing. confluence of several factors, the population entering some kind of "once in a nation's history" sweet spot that will last for a few decades, then pass. like the 1960s to 1990s era in america.

the population is still going up in south korea. in japan, it's falling. so the younger, more energetic generations are ascendant in korea whereas in japan they're shrinking. samsung, LG, hyundai are all growing, korean pop music and korean movie and television industry are blossoming. whereas toyota, sony, honda seem to have levelled off, and modern japanese culture is somewhat stable and no longer exploding with tons of new vibrant stuff being exported to the world. it's not at all like they're gone, but it's nothing like 20 years ago when it seemed japan was poised to take over the world.

Hapalong Cassidy said...

Maybe they should set up patrols to stop them from playing Starcraft.

bruce banner said...

Here´s one crucial skill Americans - particularly of the "vibrant" variety- lack: organizing riots. I say, let´s issue more visas to Koreans.

Anonymous said...

And Die Hard.

Anonymous said...

Someone has figured out how to screw the Japanese.

Maybe it was the Chinese.

Anonymous said...

You should write more about how South Korea leverages its crime enforcement by offering bounties to informants.

josh said...

I have been sort of sending out a message to the Universe that I want an Asian gf.Now Ive met an Asian girl at the train station,she seems nice and good to go,but...tho she is quite young she's a bit of a fatty! PS:Dont be so admiring of the Koreans. The article also states that,like the Japanese with their hyper-intense high school systen,followed up by their time-wasting laid back college years,the K system can be very inefficient. Kids fall asleep in class. Hey! Kids fall asleep in classrooms here,too. Are our kids going to late nite hagwons?

beowulf said...

Here´s one crucial skill Americans - particularly of the "vibrant" variety- lack: organizing riots. I say, let´s issue more visas to Koreans.

Well, to maximize the vibrancy you'd want to make sure the visa allocation is split between the college students and the riot police (imagine how they would have handled Occupy Wall Street).

Deckin said...

In re Korean Exceptionalism:

Anyone who's ever had close and long personal contacts with Koreans knows how different they are from Japanese and Koreans (those closest to them).

A good first place to look is the food. Koreans do hot and spicy better than anyone (Mexicans included). It's nothing for a Korean man to eat raw peeled garlic dipped in chile powder or sauce, sweating and laughing the whole time. And then there's the drinking. Unlike Chinese and Japanese, Koreans drink, with a purposeful vengeance.

The Koreans are well known hotheads for whom anger is never very far below the surface. Watch some Korean movies if you don't know any in person (think of Old Boy). Fighting on the streets is not uncommon in Korea after the bars close.

And finally, to complete the picture, the women share in all this passion as well. Their physicality in 'that area' is well known to those who've known and is the stuff of general Asian legend. Ask yourself, why didn't the Japanese use Chinese women for 'comfort women'?

Hacienda said...

Hagwons are great. They will outlast Western print media. And online "journalism". In fact, they will probably outlast the "profession" of journalism.

Yeah, the kids sleep, act up, fight, cry, secretly read comics, play hooky, they get to horseplay with Anglo teachers, some Hagwons are strict some are lax. Some Christian, some Buddhist. It's not efficient, like glorious FINLAND, which apparantly has become the new model of educaton for the next couple of years. Who cares? Its Finland.

Korea's educational rigidness is more than leavened by it's insanely great gangster culture. The rioting is not bad either.

Anonymous said...

P.J. O'Rourke's "Holidays in Hell" is worth buying just for the chapter on Korean riots. One of the rioters actually bit the tip off the end of his finger to write a slogan on his jacket in blood!

Anonymous said...

Lotsa fun

Life is Life, na na na na na said...

half on-topic, Asians checking anything but Asian in their college applications:

http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2011/12/im-not-asian.html

Anonymous said...

"the population is still going up in south korea."

korean birthrate is lower than in Japan.

Anonymous said...

Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. In sports, overtraining is counterproductive. Body needs rest and play as well as hard training.

Problem with Koreans is they're attacking the symptoms than the source of the disease.

Anonymous said...

Koreans need HID, or human intelligence diversity. They seem to be under the delusion that effort is key to achievement and success. Of course it is, but effort alone isn't everything. Otherwise, everyone could be Michael Jordan by practicing a lot. Koreans need to accept the fact that some kids are natually smart and likely to succeed, some are dumb are not likely to succeed.
But Korean tradition seems more rooted in cultural Confucianism than any biological understanding of genetics. Kors seem drawn to both the democratic and elitist aspects of Confucianism. (1) Everyone has a chance at success through hard work (2) Only a few make it to the top, which makes success all the sweeter. It's the meritocratic paradox as the concept of 'natural aristocracy' entails both universal access and selective success.
But then, Korean system seem kinda rigged. Who can afford tutors but the rich and well-to-do middle class? If affording tutors is key to success, it means many Koreans don't have a chance because they don't have the money.

If Americans are obsessed with pretending there's no racial differences, Kors seem to be under the delusion that sheer effort can override all obstacles. Effort is essential but in combination with natural talent.

In a status-obsessed society like Korea, elites would probably lose face if their kids make it to the top too. And so there's pressure on rich kids. And among the lower members of society, the big dream is to reach the top. Ian Buruma, in GOD'S DUST, has an interesting chapter on Koreans. He said Koreans bitch and whine about great powers but really want to belong to the big boys' club. It could be Korean masses feel the same way about the elites. They bitch about elite corruption, connection, and etc, but they'd give anything to have their kids enter that club. Of course, it's like that everywhere to some extent--in the US too--but maybe more intensely in Korea.

Anonymous said...

Anyway, it seems like much of Asia is wasting their energy and talent through their ridiculous exam system. People are most creative/innovative in their late teens to late 20s. American educational system is great at least harnessing creative energy at the right time. Kids are allowed to develop naturally through highschool and then work really hard in college--at least those with big dreams.
In Asia, it seems kids are driven nuts through highschool, and so they don't develop naturally. They become bookworm smart but don't develop their creative potential. And in college, they figure it's time to enjoy life and take it easy, which means the most creative phase of life is wasted. After that, the attitude is 'find work, bow down, respect seniority, and just hanker down'. Take the Japanese movie FEAR AND TREMBLING. It's terrible. No wonder there are so few macro-innovations coming out of Asia.

There's also been news of high suicide rates among Asian students who failed to make it to the college of their choice. Japan used to be famous for this, but Koreans seem to be have caught on too(or maybe it's always been the case but made the news only now.) Dead Kors. Maybe this has to do with obsessive face-ism in combination with stunted emotionalism. Though Amy Chua talks about Asian kids being handed adult responsibilities, Asian kids don't seem to mature properly. They learn to act adult at an earlier age but not to feel adult. Shame culture is good but excessive shame-ism destroys souls. In the Anglo tradition, it's not just important to win gracefully but to lose gracefully. As Harry Callahan said, 'a man's got to know his limitations'. You try your best, but if you don't make it, you accept the loss and go on, with the pride that you gave your best. And American parents treat their kids this way. Parents push their kids to do well in school/life, but if their kids don't get into Ivy League or become superrich lawyer, parents still accept their kids for what they are, at least if the kids gave their best. There's no shame in giving one's best but not winning.
But in Asian culture, it could be that the parents, as Amy Chua said, denounce kids who failed to make the cut as a disgrace, a family shame, a total loser. And society as a whole may look down on the kid as a pitiful bum. That must really suck. It's a soul killer, and when the soul dies, body follows.
And it's really an infantile attitude. It could be Kors are more infantile than most other Asians. Their movies are disgusting. And I've never been as offended by any sports incidents as when Koreans pulled a dirty one on Roy Jones in 1988 and then flipped out over Apollo Ohno. If they act like this over sports,
how do they react to things that really matter?
Maybe, it's an inferiority complex. As a weak nation caught between strong powers--and as mostly underprivileged masses ruled by snobby elite--, Kors may have come to despise weakness. And since most of them are without power, there could be a lot of self-loathing. As Ian Buruma said, Kors are full of self-pity about being oppressed by rich people and powerful nations, but they also wanna be part of the
power-rich-club. They hate bullies not because they believe bullying is bad but because they are not in the position to bully others; so, they do their best to join the bully club(except US hasn't been a bully nation in Asia).

Anonymous said...

One part of Koreanness acts like 'salt of the earth', poor helpless victims who deserve all the pity in the world. But Confucianism's stress on power, privilege, and honor rightfully belonging to the educated elites has made Kors despise weakness as something for losers. Problem is most of them are 'losers' in the sense that most didn't go to elite colleges. This may explain why Kors kill 2 million dogs a year. Dogs are weak and helpless, and torturing and eating those poor animals could be a way for Koreans to overcome weakness in themselves. We in the West consider sympathy for poor dogs as a virtue, or compassion. Kors see compassion as a feeling of and for the weak; they regard it as childish and unworthy. So, it is more virtuous to feel zero sympathy for the loser-sappy-dog. But a person whose feelings of sympathy are not allowed to grow but is suppressed/stunted is likely gonna turn kinda whacky, which explains the tormented sicko nature of Kor movies.

Maybe Singaporeans are less crazy cuz they'd been Westernized more. Or, it could the climate. Harder to study in hotter weather. Also, it could be Chinese, cuz they belong to a huge nation, feel less anxious about power. Chinese, by nature of being Chinese, are part of a great empire-nation. Kors, part of a dinky peninsula--divided one at that--, may feel more paranoid about 'making it to prove something'.
I also recall watching a documentary comparing Japanese and Koreans at the JAPAN SOCIETY many yrs ago. The documentary said Japanese take greater pride in arts, family business, and etc. So, even if the kid, instead of going to elite university, becomes an apprentice to some master artisan or if he continues the family business, there's much honor in that. Korean arts, it's fair to say, isn't much compared to Japanese, and so Korean ambition seem to be textual/bookish than art/culture-related. Also, Japan, due to samurai tradition, has honored its merchant class more than Korea. And so, there was pride in being part of a merchant dynasty too. Though modern Korea is all about big business, it seems the only real ticket to any kind of honorable position is through educational success.

Asia should do away with cram exams and rely on IQ exams more. And maybe someone could come up with originality/creativity exams involing math and science problems where rote memory won't do much good. The sort that will favor Einsteins of the world over colorless grinds.

Puppens said...

"A few nights ago in Starbucks I saw a group of Korean guys and one girl hanging out. Two of the guys started physically goofing with each other, one using the flappy ends of his jacket sleeves to slap the other on the side, and the other pushing him in return."

It's all relative. Watch movies like KIDS RETURN(Japan), BEIJING BICYCLE(China), and FRIEND(Korea), and there's plenty of bullying and violence there.

Pupster said...

"i've talked to some younger korean guys in the US who are genuinely concerned about the korean addiction to studying. one guy was telling me that the night after finals ended at his high school, he went to starbucks to get a drink and wind down by sipping his coffee and surfing the internet - and he was shocked and saddened to see some of his classmates in there, STUDYING. the night after finals had ended and they were going to graduate."

Addiction... or maybe worship. I think it's become like a religion for some people. It's like for some Germans and Japanese, 'cleanliness(and orderliness)is next to Godliness' isn't just a motto or habit but a kind of spirituality. So, they need to clean what is already clean over and over and over. And Japanese are addicted to or worship punctuality as almost a spiritual essence. For some Koreans, it could be studying has become not just a way of life but the meaning of life. It may not be pleasurable, but it's like some monks and nuns used to wear prickly belts underneath their garments to feel constant pain. That pain became a part of what they are, and so they were afraid to take it off. Pain is unpleasant but can become spiritualized in terms of sacrifice, penance/repentence, mental clarity, etc.
Maybe studying has that kind of spiritual essence. It promises entry to college heaven. It washes away sinful youthful desires of preferring frivolous fun over 'hard study'. In BATTLE HYMN OF TIGER MOM, Amy's first daughter says she RAN home every day after school. It's like she didn't want her mind to be distracted by other kids having stupid fun. And there's redemption of succeeding to make the pain/sacrifice of one's parents worthwhile. Jews had the Jewish Mother thing.

I think attitudes like this is unhealthy, but people need meaning in life. I think there's a new movie by some black British filmmaker named Steve McQueen. It is about 'addiction' to sex where a man keeps having sex not for pleasure but as something he must do.

Anonymous said...

So much is wasted through culturalism and economism. Sure, culture and money matters, but sometimes, it's biology that is crucial. If China wants to win the 100 m sprint, it would be best to recruit some fast runners from West Africa and have them mate with Chinese. Chinese don't have to bring millions or even 1000s of Africans. Just 100s of very fast Africans. This would create better faster runners in China than China spending billions on track facilities or training. China poured tons of money into the 2008 games, but how many Chinese track athletes won?
To create smarter people, have some of one's people mate with high IQ ashkenazi Jews or be inseminated with Jewish sperm. It's so much easier and less expensive.

edgy gurl said...

All those years of hard studying for not much of a relative advantage. It's no wonder Koreans run amok once in awhile.

Americans, and Europeans in general, have a decidedly different attitude towards academic success. Whites only expend huge amounts of money on remediation tutoring to get slower kids up to par. Average IQ kids and smart kids are expected to figure things out on their own; and not considered overly bright if they spend an inordinate amount of time studying. Our public school system typically reflects this attitude; allocating more resources to those who are below average and/or have learning disabilities. For higher IQ kids, learning is assumed to be effortless.

The Asian advantage is more that they have a tradition of supplementing their classroom education with tutoring rather than higher IQ. You people obsessed with the supposedly superior Asians being discriminated against in higher education aren't being honest enough about the extra money and time used to get Asians higher grades and test scores. Expect and respect the varied responses you'll no doubt get from American universities: Some will embrace the Asian way; others will remain more true to American academic traditions and values.

I hope the larger public isn't as simplistic about the resistance to Asians filling top schools being a simple case of racism; of course it's not. The biggest obstacle for the rest of the above average students in the US is the thought of embracing so much of Asian academic culture just to achieve results formerly attainable without focusing every waking minute on future goals. I can't imagine a childhood consumed this way!

edgy gurl said...

All those years of hard studying for not much of a relative advantage. It's no wonder Koreans run amok once in awhile.

Americans, and Europeans in general, have a decidedly different attitude towards academic success. Whites only expend huge amounts of money on remediation tutoring to get slower kids up to par. Average IQ kids and smart kids are expected to figure things out on their own; and not considered overly bright if they spend an inordinate amount of time studying. Our public school system typically reflects this attitude; allocating more resources to those who are below average and/or have learning disabilities. For higher IQ kids, learning is assumed to be effortless.

The Asian advantage is more that they have a tradition of supplementing their classroom education with tutoring rather than higher IQ. You people obsessed with the supposedly superior Asians being discriminated against in higher education aren't being honest enough about the extra money and time used to get Asians higher grades and test scores. Expect and respect the varied responses you'll no doubt get from American universities: Some will embrace the Asian way; others will remain more true to American academic traditions and values.

I hope the larger public isn't as simplistic about the resistance to Asians filling top schools being a simple case of racism; of course it's not. The biggest obstacle for the rest of the above average students in the US is the thought of embracing so much of Asian academic culture just to achieve results formerly attainable without focusing every waking minute on future goals. I can't imagine a childhood consumed this way!

Hacienda said...

"All those years of hard studying for not much of a relative advantage. It's no wonder Koreans run amok once in awhile."

The great difference is that Koreans get to spend all that wasted time with other Koreans. Americans have to waste their time with people like you.

Hacienda said...

"I can't imagine a childhood consumed this way!"

Very few Koreans I know who went to Harvard and other elite schools, got PhDs in STEM were consumed with the future and studying. Very well-rounded and fun people to be around. And they don't hang the internet much. A sure sign of decay.

Felix said...

Koreans have the hottest Asian girls. Nuff said.

Anonymous said...

"It's all relative. Watch movies like KIDS RETURN(Japan), BEIJING BICYCLE(China), and FRIEND(Korea), and there's plenty of bullying and violence there."

There is also this movie called "Once Upon a Time in High School". Be careful when a docile Korean has had enough.


Video:Once Upon a Time in High School- End Fight

beowulf said...

The Koreans are definitely the stars of Gladwell's Outliers chapter, "The Ethnic Theory of Plane Crashes":

In the Delta report on Korean Air that was posted anonymously
on the Internet one of the auditors tells a story of sitting in on a
Korean Air flight where the first officer got confused while listening to Air Traffic Control and mistakenly put the plane on
a course intended for another plane. "The Flight Engineer
picked up something was wrong but said nothing. First Officer was also not happy but said nothing…
Despite [good] visual conditions, crew did not look out and see
that current heading would not bring them to the airfield."
Finally the plane's radar picks up the mistake, and then comes the key sentence:
"Captain hit First Officer with the back of his hand for making the error."

http://book.zi5.me/book/689//ch7.html

Anonymous said...

There are two things you have to know about Koreans:

(1) They are two souls in one nation-body -- on the one hand, a Confucianism more stringent, more fixated on propriety, and more restrictive of conduct than anything in China, and, on the other, the wild ecstasy of the shamanic kut. There is the incubus of an imposed Chinese civilization and the straining chest that breathes freely in the Mongols and Tunguses.

(2) They are hard-pressed to do anything half-assed.

Hence the difficulty in characterizing them, and hence also the enormity of their suffering.

From the most stubbornly closed of all Hermit Kingdoms to the most fanatical evangelical Christians (who vie with one another to do idiotic things like proselytize in Afghanistan), with the world's largest congregations (1,000,000 in Yoido Full Gospel Church). But also the world's most fervent cult of individual personality, the God-Emperor of the DPRK. All of the competitive obsessions (in college admissions and world mountain-climbing and archery and figure-skating). The demonstrations where people cut off their fingers to protest some foreign politician's visit to Yasukuni. The incredible passions aroused over trivial things like the English term for the Sea of Japan (no, East Sea!) and the flyspeck of Dokdo Island. The most rapid industrialization. The most unreserved embrace of empty materialism. The highest rate of cosmetic plastic surgery in the world. The fertility rate of 1.21.

Anonymous said...

Here's an interesting quote from American missionary Homer Hulbert (1906) posted in the comments at agonostic's blog:

The Japanese are a people of sanguine temperament. They are quick, versatile, idealistic, and their temperamental sprightliness approaches the verge of volatility. This quality stood them in good stead when the opportunity came for them to make the great volte face in 1868. It was a happy leap in the dark. In the very same way the Japanese often embarks upon business enterprises, utterly sanguine of success, but without forecasting what he will do in case of disaster.

[...] The Chinese, on the other hand, while very superstitious, is comparatively phlegmatic. He sees no rainbows and pursues no ignes fatui. He has none of the martial spirit which impels the Japanese to deeds of patriotic daring. But he is the best business man in the world. He is careful, patient, persevering, and content with small but steady gains.

[...] The temperament of the Korean lies midway between the two, even as his country lies between Japan and China. This combination of qualities makes the Korean rationally idealistic. [...] And more than this, I would submit that it is the same combination that has made the Anglo-Saxon what he is. He is at once cool-headed and hot-headed. He can reason calmly and act at white heat. It is this welding of two different but not contrary characteristics that makes the power of the Anglo-Saxon peoples.

[...] In the first place, it is the experience of those who have had to do with the various peoples of the Far East that it is easier to understand the Korean and get close to him than it is to understand either the Japanese or Chinese. He is much more like ourselves. You lose the sense of difference very readily, and forget that he is a Korean and not a member of your own race. This in itself is a strong argument; for it would not be so if there were not some close intellectual, or moral, or temperamental bond of sympathy.

Anonymous said...

Anon said:

Obama administrations' war against Caucasians continues: Obama's war against Whites continues


Have you noticed what has happened to the employment rates of NAMs, or at least AfAms?

I think employers are waking up to the fact that a degree in African American Studies does not make someone employable, indeed, it is likely to make that person litigate over the smallest slight and every imagined instance of "waaaacism."

Anonymous said...

Puppens said...

"A few nights ago in Starbucks I saw a group of Korean guys and one girl hanging out. Two of the guys started physically goofing with each other, one using the flappy ends of his jacket sleeves to slap the other on the side, and the other pushing him in return."

It's all relative. Watch movies like KIDS RETURN(Japan), BEIJING BICYCLE(China), and FRIEND(Korea), and there's plenty of bullying and violence there.


I think there are psychiatric services for people who cannot distinguish fantasy from reality.

Anonymous said...

To create smarter people, have some of one's people mate with high IQ ashkenazi Jews or be inseminated with Jewish sperm. It's so much easier and less expensive.

I really like this blog. Usually the comments are interesting. But this one is pure crap.

Anonymous said...

"Average IQ kids and smart kids are expected to figure things out on their own"

Nope.

jody said...

"korean birthrate is lower than in Japan."

all i said was that the population is still going up in absolute terms. and it is. there are more korean people on earth now than there were 2 years ago. and meanwhile, that the japanese population is already falling in absolute terms. there are less japanese people on earth now than there were 2 years ago.

japan's peak population already occured a while ago. while it was building to that peak, it experienced some of the most dynamic decades in it's history. that period is over now, and japan seems to be in a permanent recession.

meanwhile, korea is still growing. it has not reached it's peak population yet. and in the last 10 years, korea began exporting lots of culture that wasn't on the international scene before.

china is still growing too, but the chinese are a lot less interesting than the koreans. they're still interesting, it's not like they're boring or anything. but they outnumber the koreans 20 to 1, while being about 10 times less interesting. roughly 10 times i would said, using the WAG (wild ass guess) calibrated scale of estimation. the koreans seem to be better...at everything, person for person. better athletes, better video game makers, better musicians, better scientists on average, better engineers.

jody said...

"Koreans have the hottest Asian girls"

well, er, um...

oh, ok. it's true.

lookism is still allowed. and boy, do they look good.

Anonymous said...

Koreans seem more intense than other East Asians. More fanatic about their studying, more into video games, more willing to work long hours, more clannish, more nationalistic, more quarrelsome, more into hard drinking. In a way, a more neurotic and disagreeable version of the Chinese.

edgy gurl said...

"The great difference is that Koreans get to spend all that wasted time with other Koreans. Americans have to waste their time with people like you."

I get so tired of your lies. I've known Koreans, fun they're not.

And what Ivy League school did you attend this time?

What about that law degree of yours?

Your music collection?

How great a dancer you are?

That great one-liner you delivered at the christmas party?

The last book you read?

edgy gurl said...

'...the koreans seem to be better...at everything, person for person. better athletes, better video game makers, better musicians, better scientists on average, better engineers.'

Not really. This place is sooooo creepy now.

Of course I'm just jealous. I know Korea is one of the top 10 honeymoon destinations and on everyone else's top 10 of places to visit. And those women built like legos, really hot babes in every magazine. Check out all the Korean chicks in the latest SI Swimsuit edition!

Anonymous said...

Off-topic, but steve, you might be interested in this article about the 18 children spawned by members of Pink Floyd:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2069424/Pink-Floyd-family-values-Its-just-rioter-Charlie-Gilmour--rock-stars-EIGHTEEN-children-women.html

beowulf said...

the koreans seem to be better...at everything, person for person. better athletes, better video game makers, better musicians, better scientists on average, better engineers.

We really should outsource fighting our foreign wars to them. They scared the hell out of the Vietcong.

Once, when the mutilated body of a Korean soldier was found in a Viet Cong-sympathizing village, the Koreans tracked down a Viet Cong, skinned him and hung him up in the village. Not surprisingly, captured Viet Cong orders now stipulate that contact with the Koreans is to be avoided at all costs—unless a Viet Cong victory is 100% certain.
http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2007/09/south-korean-troops-in-vietnam.html

Antioco Dascalon said...

To understand Koreans, you have to understand Han. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/05/world/la-fg-south-korea-han-20110105

Koreans are intensely proud of their accomplishments, most of all, of simply existing, between the two superpowers of Japan and China for thousands of years. I wonder if there are parallels to the survival of the Jews for thousands of years. Despite the pain, war, famine and hardship, Korea endures. I think the ability to endure is the most prized virtue for Koreans: to endure hours of studying for years on end, to endure days of playing online games, to endure any pain.
I think this embrace of pain makes Koreans appear totally insane to Westerners, who have traveled much further down the road of convenience and pleasure-seeking.
Koreans seek out pain: http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/03/5756202-nothing-but-shorts-and-ice-the-cold-endurance-world-record-competition

That's why they win.

Anonymous said...

"They scared the hell out of the Vietcong."

We wiped out the Viet Cong. Like, entirely destroyed the entire thing.

How does that factor in vs. one Korean killing one Viet Cong?

OwningYourOkayness said...

Not just rioting.They carry much of that passion and energy indoors -Koreans are the undefeated parliamentary brawlers complete with tear gas ,barricades and hammers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqvdJSO6Ssc

Interestingly another people known for cramming,over achieving along with violence and gangsta culture

-Sri Lankan Tamils whose contributions to Canada inlcude the most vicious gangsters as well as respected faculty members in STEM.

Anonymous said...

i'm an ex-(former, can't ever remember which is the proper term) marine.

ROK (republic of korea) marines were pretty notorious for being badasses amongst the generic USMC back in the 70's/80's which is saying something, although exactly what that may mean is up to the reader.

Anyhow, anyone who fertilizes their fields w/human shit doesn't get a whole lotta respect from me as an advanced life form.

Anonymous said...

Deckin: "Ask yourself, why didn't the Japanese use Chinese women for 'comfort women'?"

Er. They did. It's in Wikipedia. They used more from places closer to them.

I don't really understand why everyone thinks Korean women, who fair play to them, are averagely attractive for Asian people (maybe more if you like small noses and flat profiles and fair skin, maybe less if you dislike square jaws and faces as wide as a dinnerplate), are particularly attractive because of a minor boom in the Korean media industry. They're obviously not particularly attractive compared to other East Asians.

...

Koreans definitely have the most boring history of the Asians - basically they're North China junior with none of the interesting feudal history of the Japanese. No culture of the Samurai. And with a perversion of the admirable meritocracy in the extreme (non-admirable) bureaucracy of the Chinese, by making it a more caste like system.

Anonymous said...

"Koreans have the hottest Asian girls. Nuff said."

Aka Koreans have most plastic surgery.
Btw, most Westerners think Filipino girls are hottest.

Anonymous said...

"It's all relative. Watch movies like KIDS RETURN(Japan), BEIJING BICYCLE(China), and FRIEND(Korea), and there's plenty of bullying and violence there."


"I think there are psychiatric services for people who cannot distinguish fantasy from reality."


They are not fantasy movies but movies based on reality. KIDS RETURN was drawn from Kitano's own youth. BEIJING BICYCLE is in
neo-realist vein. FRIEND, the Korean gangster movie, is more outlandish but seems/feels real enough in many ways.

Anonymous said...

"The great difference is that Koreans get to spend all that wasted time with other Koreans. Americans have to waste their time with people like you."

That may be why so many of them wanna come here. They can't stand one another.

Pupster said...

"Koreans seem more intense than other East Asians. More fanatic about their studying, more into video games, more willing to work long hours, more clannish, more nationalistic, more quarrelsome, more into hard drinking. In a way, a more neurotic and disagreeable version of the Chinese."

There seems to be two reasons for this. Lunkhead simplicity. Lacking nuance, subtlety, irony, and etc, Koreans find in value in something only through quantity, purity, excess, strain, etc. So, Koreans equate DOING A LOT with DOING GOOD.
Lacking nuance and subtlety, Koreans prefer to lose themselves in the blind alley of excess and total devotion. It has therapeutic value cuz without blinders on, Kors would realize there's more to reality, and many people don't like complexity.

The other reason could be due to the IMITATION COMPLEX. The greatest honor goes to the people who invented something: like Greeks with drama and democracy; Jews with monotheism and theory of relativity; like Germans with Bach and Beethoven; like Anglos with Shakespeare and etc.
Koreans invented NOTHING. They make some laughable claims about the first 'iron-clad ship', but in fact the silly thing was nothing more than a conventional ship with a roof and turtle head. So, Koreans have nothing of originality to be proud of. Okay, they have their own language and kim-chee, but Korean is not an international language with a history of great literature--it's a truism that while Japan and China has a worthy history of classical literature, most classical Korean literature is dull Confucian moralizing imitating the Chinese--and Korean food aint much. When I used to live in an apartment complex in the city, there was an hierarchy of stinkers. Hindus were near the top with excess curry; blacks must eat tons of raw onions. But Kors took the cake as the cookers of the stinkiest foods.

So, this means Kors don't have much to be proud of that is truly Korean; and what is truly Korean stinks to high heaven.
Though Japanese also adopted most stuff from other cultures, Japan 'improved' and 'adapted' them in ways that made them even more remarkable. So, there is Japanese pride in being able to 'perfect' ideas/elements from foreign cultures. But Korean imitations tended to be lackluster. Just look at any art book or go to any art museum and check out the Asian section. Japanese stuff: wonderful. Thai stuff: wonderful. Korean stuff: boring.

Pupster said...

Since Koreans couldn't take credit for originality nor for inspired imitation--as with Japanese--, all they had left to claim any morsel of pride was extremism. So, never mind originality or quality; excessivism or purism conquers all with ridiculous Koreans. Be more crazily communist than other commies. Be more insanely Confucian than other Confucians. Be more wildly consumerist and status-seeking-ist than other consumerist peoples. Be more skanky than other skankeroos(J-pop idiocy has nothing on K-pop idiocy). Be more blindly Christian than other Christians.

The other way to stake pride in one's people is to tell dirty lies, like saying most of Japanese culture came from Korea. This is like blacks saying (1) Egyptians were black (2) Greeks stole everything from Egyptians.
While many influences came to Japan via Korea-as-cultural-bridge, Koreans cannot lay claim to ideas such as Confucianism, Chinese style of art/architecture, printing, Buddhism, etc. But Koreans act Japanese directly imitated authentic Korean culture.

When Kors really feel desperate about their lack of originality and innovation, they turn to Korean eccentricities like torturing-and-killing-dogs to boost sexual drive. The fact that it offends Westerners is part of the appeal. It makes Kors feel badass and different in offending Western 'cultural-imperialists'. The proof that they have the balls to be heartless and do things Westerners are squeamish about makes them feel tough and proud. Never mind dogs have no understanding of culture and only cowards bully and torture helpless animals.

Anonymous said...

One thing for sure, Korea should never be given the Olympics again. Though I lost interest in the Olympics over the yrs, I was mad about it up until 1992 ever since seeing the Montreal events in
1976.
Olympics say much about the soul of a nation and the sign of the times. Moscow Olympics and LA Olympics were clouded by the Cold War. USSR really lost face, but US really gained much from 1984 Olympics: greater showbiz knack, hype, and global reach.
The 1988 Seoul Olympics was much hyped in the media as an earthshaking event because Korea was host for first time, it had recently turned democraic, it was a good friend of US, etc.
But has there ever been a worse host than Korean one? I think not. Okay, Americans didn't start off on the right foot, with American athletes disgracefully entering the stadium and treating it like their own living room. But at least that was an error of positive enthusiasm.
Korean foulness, in contrast, was rabid, petulant, and willful. This was nowhere more evident than in boxing, and in fact I recall boxing controversies became one of highlights of the Olympic coverage. In one fight, a bunch of Korean thugs--security guards included--jumped and attacked an Australian referee cuz they didn't like his calls. It must have been a first in Olympic boxing history. Worse, the idiot Korean boxer protested by sitting in the ring for over 2 hrs, beating the record of previous
in-ring protest by, you guessed it, another Korean boxer(in the
60s). I mean what kind of men are these? Many boxers in the Olympics had gripes over referees or judges, but they were man enough to walk away when the fight was over. But these childish Kors make spectacles out of themselves as if anyone gives a shit about their pitiful self-pity. (But sufficient numbers of idiot Koreans must condone such a thing; otherwise, why would such male behavior even exist? Can anyone imagine a proud America, Russian, or German male sitting on his ass inside the ring for 2 hrs pleading for goo goo pity?)
Another controversy flared up when some idiot Korean boxer mistook the wrong bell and dropped his guard and was knocked out by the American Todd Foster. Foster did NOTHING WRONG, but a rematch was scheduled(which Foster rightly won by TKO) because of Korean whininess. But, Foster, having had to fight the same guy twice, was obviously drained for his next match, which he lost.
But, NBC coverage of boxing went into downright riot mode on the final day of competition. Costas and others(and surely most Americans and maybe the entire world)couldn't believe in foulness they were witnessing. In the heavyweight fight, Ray Mercer took out the Korean guy in the first round. What did Koreans do? While US anthem was playing, they all walked out of the stadium. I mean what a bunch of petulant sore losers. As a host nation, you'd think they'd put their wounded nationalism aside and be gracious even in defeat. Nope.
And then surely the biggest boxing scandal in Olympics history with the Roy Jones fiasco. The fraud was so patently obvious. NBC commentators, who'd tried to be understanding of Koreans, lost it(rightfully so) when that stinkbomb went off. Worse, Koreans in the stadium stood up and sang the national anthem for a victory that was clearly not theirs. It made you wanna throw up.

Anonymous said...

Another big news item in 1988 was the introduction of Tae Kwon Do, not least because a whole bunch of Tae Kwon Do training centers had opened up in the US, even eclipsing Karate in some places as martial arts of choice.
But when an American girl beat a Korean girl, there was no American national anthem. The Korean explanation? They didn't think any American could beat a Korean.
In a way, it was doubly insulting. The arrogance aside, there was the petulant sore-loser syndrome that an American--in a nation where Taekwondo is just a minor sport--beat a Korean in a nation where Taekwondo is supposed to become national sport which people learn from childhood. Even Nazis acted more graciously when Jesse Owens won the 100 m sprin.

I think NBC commentators were privatley far more livid and outraged then they appeared on TV--and rightfully so.
The Barcelona Olympics, in contrast, was heaven(but then Atlanta or the Oprah Olympics kinda ruined it for me.) I never saw an Olympics as foul as one hosted by Koreans. (Maybe only multi-culti London one will top it in awfulness.)

Hacienda said...

"I get so tired of your lies. I've known Koreans, fun they're not. "

Because you have a bitchy presence when you are with them, and this chills the atmosphere? Could THAT have something to do with their being not "fun"?

Anonymous said...

For all their cumulative academic effort ethnic Koreans have won only a single Nobel prize (in Peace). Even the cretinous Mexicans have won three, including one in a STEM field.

My impression is that Koreans are the dumb cousins of the Japanese and that their high IQ scores only mean that they study a lot for IQ tests.

Felix said...

Of course I'm just jealous. I know Korea is one of the top 10 honeymoon destinations and on everyone else's top 10 of places to visit. And those women built like legos, really hot babes in every magazine. Check out all the Korean chicks in the latest SI Swimsuit edition!

I thought this blog had a "komment kontrol" function that threw out posts that were either too critical of the Scoth-Irish or just too effing stupid? What happened? Where did the system fail??

Paul Mendez said...

Korean wowen hot?

I suppose. IF you can get past the kimchi breath!

An attractive young Korean girl worked in our accounting department once. Her breath could peel paint.

eh said...

In other news, South Koreans kill themselves at alarmingly high rates. Which is not so amusing.

spandrell said...

You guys haven't been in Korea. It's a half-assed wannabe version of Japan. The guys aren't 'fun', just obnoxious with a chip on their shoulders.
If that's your idea of fun, be my guest.

David Davenport said...

Off topic, but maybe Steve will indulge me.

This morning, Glenn Reynold's Instapundit blog had a link, "The Lower Education Bubble," to this piece in the Washington Examiner. This evening, I notice that the Instapundit link is gone. I suspect that the piece drew some unflatttering comments, which are also gone.

Seems that crusading Lib Lib Libertarian Glenn Reynolds is against political correctness, except when he's perpetrating it:


http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2011/03/sunday-reflection-now-comes-lower-education-bubble


Sunday Reflection: Now comes the 'Lower Education Bubble?'

By: Glenn Harlan Reynolds | 03/05/11 8:05 PM


...

Getting rid of teachers' unions and overgenerous, underfunded public pensions is something states will have to do to remain solvent. But that's just the short term. Over the longer term - which means, really, the next three to five years at most - straitened circumstances and the need for better education will require more significant change.

When our public education system was created in the 19th century, its goal, quite explicitly, was to produce obedient and orderly factory workers to fill the new jobs being created by the industrial revolution. Those jobs are mostly gone, now, and the needs of the 21st century are not the needs of the 19th.

Perhaps there's still a role for teaching children to sit up straight and form lines, but perhaps not. Certainly the rapidly increasing willingness of parents to try homeschooling, charter schools, online school, and other alternative approaches suggests that a lot of people are unhappy with the status quo.


Glen, you are saying that the reason for "the rapidly increasing willingness of parents to try homeschooling, charter schools," etc., is that the government schools try to teach children "to sit up straight and form lines?" You're not being honest, Prof. Reynolds.

Like striking steelworkers in the 1970s, today's teachers' immediate unhappiness may come from reductions in benefits. But their bigger problem is an industry that hasn't kept up with the times,

Hasn't kept up with the times? Let's see, what is it about the demographics of public school students that has changed in recent decades?

... and isn't producing the value it once did. Until that changes, we're likely to see deflation of the lower education bubble as well as the higher.

Examiner Sunday Reflection contributor Glenn Harlan Reynolds is founder and editor of Instapundit.com and a law professor at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville.

...

Comments for this page are closed.

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Glenn Reynolds frequently criticizes other people for "scrubbing" their websites and deleting opinion pieces that draw unflattering comments. Seems to me that the Instapundit has been doing a little Instascrubbing of his own web site.

Steve Sailer said...

Korean Olympic boxing ... oh, man.

I went to early-round boxing at the Sports Arena in the 1984 Olympics. I sat behind about 200 Koreans, including three monks in saffron robes. They didn't cheer once for any of the first two dozen fighters that day. Finally, after two hours, the one Korean fighter gets in the ring. They stood and screamed for the entire 45 seconds it took for their man to get knocked out cold. Then, rather than watch the last few bouts, they all filed out.

Anonymous said...

Girls and sons who have not been loved by their fathers seek attention once teens and adults to compensate for what they didnt have originally. Fathers either left them alone, or were distant most of the time and not encouraging them. Some even despised them which would shape their personality and the way they d interact with others for the rest of their life.
They are extremistic in everything they do, always looking exageratly for attention, and have troubles adapting to society's rules, because they also have troubles defining their own identity and respecting authority and hierarchy.


Also boys who got picked on by others during childhood and adolescence -often sons without a father figure- try to compensate by lifting weights, to develop muscles and survive in ther male world. They re insecure because they re girly, childish, feminine having been raised by a single mom. They lift obsessively hoping it will transform them into men, to compensate for their lack of influence from a father figure that was not there. Unfortunaltey they can get as big as they can it doesnt cure their insecurity and who they truly are, how they grew up being raised by a single mom. They re no as manly as other men whatever they do, and they often have a big lack of masculine presence they dont know how to balance, hence often being borderline homosexuals while trying to get their manhood back thru various manly activities (mma, cars, weight lifting etc). They are often the ones that, in order to get respect from other males will go the steroids route to get even "bigger" attemptint to cure their insecurity , but being natural not being "enough", they still feel "too small", insecure, amongst other males. The lack of a father figure also often means they didnt have guidance to continue studies and are often working shitty manual jobs.

Anonymous said...

Re the Olympics:
All thats nothing, try beating one of them at starcraft.

내 자지빠라 이놈들아 said...

"For all their cumulative academic effort ethnic Koreans have won only a single Nobel prize (in Peace). Even the cretinous Mexicans have won three, including one in a STEM field."

Given the size of China, more embarrassing for the Chinese. Mainland Chinese haven't won many either.

Anonymous said...

http://www.vdare.com/posts/ungrateful-asians

"They really hate white people, but are willing to pretend to be white when it benefits them. It seems that elite Universities have too many Asians, and some Asians are pretending to be white despite their contempt for whites and what they created out of the wilderness of the North American continent."

Why does Vdare assume that Asian-Americans hate white people? Or is the writer projecting and justifying his own hate of Asian people by claiming that Asians hate whites just as much as he hates Asians?
Why does Michelle Malkin write for a site that heaps such abuse on her kind?

Antioco Dascalon said...

Nobel Prizes are typically given decades after the achievements they recognize. For example, last years winners in chemistry were all born in the 1930s. Korea only modernized in the 1970s. We would need to wait a few decades before we can judge their achievement in this regard. Similarly, America will still win many Nobels even though it's education system has deteriorated.
Korea is #3 in the world in patents granted. Their leadership in the field of bioengineering, especially human cloning, is well known.
Not bad for a country less than 1/6th the size of the US and 1/20th the size of China.

koko said...

"One part of Koreanness acts like 'salt of the earth', poor helpless victims who deserve all the pity in the world"

I've always thought that the right-wing Japanese who post on 2ch forums, might benefit from the immigration. However, the "not-so-nice" commenting on Korea here suggests some of them have already found it. I guess I'll have to apologize for any more propanganda that might start to prop up here.

To put in words they might understand:

ネットウヨク セーラーさんのブログに来るな (don't come here)

Anonymous said...

Steve - have you commentated on this one yet?

Apparently it was document-dumped on Friday - I didn't see it until this morning:


U.S. Urges Creativity by Colleges to Gain Diversity
By SAM DILLON
Published: December 2, 2011
nytimes.com

The Obama administration on Friday urged colleges and universities to get creative in improving racial diversity at their campuses, throwing out a Bush-era interpretation of recent Supreme Court rulings that limited affirmative action in admissions.

The new guidelines issued by the Departments of Justice and Education replaced a 2008 document that essentially warned colleges and universities against considering race at all. Instead, the guidelines focus on the wiggle room in the court decisions involving the University of Michigan, suggesting that institutions use other criteria - students’ socioeconomic profiles, residential instability, the hardships they have overcome - that are often proxies for race. Schools could even grant preferences to students from certain schools selected for, among other things, their racial composition, the new document says...

mr_evergreen said...

Which proves it isn't just Black people that riot. White people have rioted alot in history. Riots happen in South Korea too.

Justthisguy said...

Well, nobody else has yet said it, so I reckon it's up to me.

Koreans are the Irish of Asia.

Jonathan Silber said...

I say lock them all up and throw away the answer key.

Quotas for One, Quotas for All said...

So the general complaint here is Koreans (among other outperforming groups) work too hard, NAMs work too little but Whites work the perfect amount just like Goldilocks?

That's a convenient arguement. I recall hearing a similar one mocked here awhile ago when a NAM firefighter similarly complained that NYC city exams favored white firefighters who were "firebugs" (eg whites who were interested in and studied the relavent details of firefighting).

Given that Koreans (and many other high-performing auslanders) concentrate in STEM fields where minimally elevated IQs and high conscientious are both required, results are usually demanded and more easily measured what is the problem here?

Koreans (and various other high-performing groups) are already actively discriminated against by elite admissions. Based upon percentage of employment pools and industry concentrations, they are underrepresented in most non-STEM fields like high-tech uppermost management, biglaw partners, etc.

Most qualified whites don't like STEM grunt work as evidenced by their college and career choices. For them, the rational choice is a life more secure, materially rewarding and easier outside of STEM.

Are critics here suggesting we impose quotas in STEM so uninterested or unqualified whites can be protected against Koreans? Are they then logically consistent enough to also support women and NAM quotas in firefighting, STEM, etc using idential reasoning?

David said...

>Why does Michelle Malkin write for a site that heaps such abuse on her kind?<

Malkin is not Korean. And her grandchildren will be Jewish. So why should she care?

Some Animals are more Equal said...

I realize this post is slight tongue-in-cheek anti-Korean. However, for all the round eyes who seem confused by the various flavors of inscrutible asians:

* It irrationally anti-Korean to selectively criticize their dog meat. Several sites list the most intelligent animals as:

Chimps & Primates
Dolphins
Whales
Cephalopods (Octopus, Squid, etc)
Crows
Squirrels
Dogs
Cats
Pigs
Pidgeon
Rat

The Japanese eat purportedly more intelligent animals than Koreans (incl dolpin and whale). The Chinese are far wider omnivores who eat dogs, cats, rat, crow, and almost anything you can image. SE Asian Indians also eat a wider vareity of animal than Koreans.

Even the enlighted American breeds, slaughters and consumes 112,000,000 pigs each year. Pigs are considered more intelligent than dogs and some breeds can make interesting pets (perhaps too smart to make ideal house pets).

Germans, Belgiums and the Dutch ate dogs as late as WWII. Some in Switzerland still eat dog.

Culturally engrained emotions aside, unless you are a PETA vegan who avoids all animal products like leather shoes these non-western dietary criticism are shades of hypocricy.

* Yes, the Japanese are basically a combination of earlier Siberian Mogoloid Jomon conqured later by invading Koreans who slightly interbred with the native Ainu and Ryukyuans. Even Emporor Akihito of Japan acknowledged his Korean ancestry in 2001.

Anonymous said...

London riots book. Blame consumerism? But Japan's pop culture is trashy and consumerist too. We don't see Tokyo going up in flames. Notice no discussion of race.

Anonymous said...

"My impression is that Koreans are the dumb cousins of the Japanese and that their high IQ scores only mean that they study a lot for IQ tests."

A lot of the Singapore Math curriculum amounts to preparing for an IQ test.

Anonymous said...

Kooks of the year.

Truth said...

WhiteWimenz4Cain.com

Kylie said...

Korean movies as "disgusting" and "tormented sicko"?

In the thriller or horror or action genres, maybe.

I just watched No Mercy last night (only the second of my movie choices this year that my husband would sit through--the first one was The Mechanic). I thought it was a very good thriller and a pretty good exploration of the nature of revenge and the way injustice reverberates down through the years.

Korean films can also be thoughtful, understated and lyrical as in the aptly-named Poetry and Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter...and Spring or the charming Take Care of My Cat.

My personal experience with Koreans is that they tend to be quite combative and hot-headed.

beowulf said...

"Given the size of China, more embarrassing for the Chinese. Mainland Chinese haven't won many either."

The US dominates Nobel Prizes for the same reason we dominate battlefields, overwhelming firepower. Uncle Sam pours a ton of money into education every year (per OMB Table 9.9, $120B) and even more on R&D ($150B, Table 9.8). State and local spending is over and above that.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

Anonymous said...

I don't really understand why everyone thinks Korean women, who fair play to them, are averagely attractive for Asian people (maybe more if you like small noses and flat profiles and fair skin, maybe less if you dislike square jaws and faces as wide as a dinnerplate), are particularly attractive because of a minor boom in the Korean media industry.



I don't really understand why everyone thinks Asian women are particularly attractive. There are some very attractive Asian women, but as a group they are nothing special.

Steve Sailer said...

P.J. O'Rourke's impression from a visit to Seoul was that Koreans are the Protestant Irish, the Ulstermen, of Asia. (O'Rourke is Protestant Irish, by the way.)

Puppy said...

"Take Care of My Cat"

Okay, that, along with 'Friend', is a good Kor flick.

Puppy. said...

"My impression is that Koreans are the dumb cousins of the Japanese and that their high IQ scores only mean that they study a lot for IQ tests."

Not dumber. Just more barbaric and childish, at least by the movies they make.

Truth said...

"Given that Koreans (and many other high-performing auslanders) concentrate in STEM fields where minimally elevated IQs and high conscientious are both required, results are usually demanded and more easily measured what is the problem here?"

As Louis Armstrong once said about Jazz:

"If you have to ask what it (the problem) is, you'll never know."

Charlotte said...

"Why does Vdare assume that Asian-Americans hate white people?"

I agree. You have to put a lot of energy into hating somebody. Not usually worth it unless they done you wrong in a personal or deliberate way. Then it's a hard train to stop.

What VDare doubtless means is that Koreans just care more about their own interests than those of white Americans, and its easier to assume mutual interests with same-race people, generally. It's not "hate" of others. It's just self-interest.

That said, there are some that hate, but not a large percentage.

Anonymous said...

Why does Vdare assume that Asian-Americans hate white people? Or is the writer projecting and justifying his own hate of Asian people by claiming that Asians hate whites just as much as he hates Asians?
Why does Michelle Malkin write for a site that heaps such abuse on her kind?


VDare is officially or technically just about anti-immigration.

Anti-immigration sentiment tends to generally overlap to a degree with white nationalist sentiment, whether explicit or implicit sentiment. And it's pretty obvious that the anti-immigration sentiment at VDare overlaps to a large degree with white nationalist sentiment among many there.

But I think since they wish to be officially or technically just about anti-immigration and focused on it, any white nationalist sentiment tends to be expressed indirectly through critiques of and contempt for immigration and immigrants who of course tend to be non-white. Rather than directly through explicit, positive expressions of pro-white nationalist views.

It comes across as somewhat schizophrenic. You wish they'd just be more honest and frank about it, since the undercurrent is so obvious. There's nothing wrong with it. It's better than pretending that it's not there or doesn't exist. Brenda Walker talks about the environment but it's not like she would be supportive of immigration if the Mexicans were organic farming, zero carbon footprint, environmentalist hippies or something.

I think Michelle Malkin's articles are syndicated. I don't think she necessarily writes "for" VDare.

Kylie said...

"I thought this blog had a 'komment kontrol' function that threw out posts that were either too critical of the Scoth-Irish or just too effing stupid? What happened? Where did the system fail??"

The system failed when it allowed "edgy gurl" to become a regular commenter. S/he has quickly made this place into the kind of place I used to come here to avoid.

Anonymous said...

Not dumber. Just more barbaric and childish, at least by the movies they make.

I've watched plenty of Korean and Japanese movies. Japanese ones struck me as more "weird" and horrific and violent.

Otis McWrong said...

Apologies in advance for my "all over the place" post. I have spent a LOT of time in Korea, Japan, and China over the past 20 years and know (just) enough to be dangerous.

All three, if you know them well enough and get enough drinks in them, will eventually tell you why they are the master race. To the Chinese it is because of their 6,000 years of civilization. The Japanese it is because of their modernity, their cleanliness, they're often right), and the fact they beat the s**t out of the Koreans and Chinese until we stomped them. That however DOES NOT mean Americans are superior to them. This makes sense to them. One Japanese guy told me that Americans would be close to them "if it wasn't for your blacks". The Korean's explanation for their superiority is that their language contains significantly more distinct sounds than either Mandarin or Japanese. Seriously...

Koreans are good people and Seoul is a fun city. They definitely have an inferiority complex, however today they also admit their behavior during the Seoul olympics was awful. They say "we were young" meaning as a democracy. They strike me as being physically the largest between them the Japanese and the Chinese. They are the most Christian country in Asia and in business they are far and away the most honest. The Chinese will lie as easy as breath.

They do have very short fuses and while they can drink a lot, I would say the Japanese do more pointless binge drinking, while the Chinese drink only because they think its Western. I have had to chug countless glasses of bad red wine with ice cubes in it after Chinese toasts. The best wine to them is that which costs the most.

In terms of sickness, nobody has anything on the Japanese. Check out their porn sometime - most of it is some gal in a school uniform getting raped. As a Korean colleague said of the Japs "What the f**k is wrong with those people"?

The hottest women in Asia are in the SE. Thailand and Vietnam, particularly if they have some white blood.

A friend of mine's father saw extensive duty in Vietnam in the USMC. He said they loved deploying with the Korean (ROK) Marines. On one particular mission they had grabbed 6 North Vietnamese prisoners and were in the chopper heading back to base. The pilot radioed that they had 6 POWs. The message came back that the interrogators asked for 5. The USMC guys figured so we have an extra, no big deal. One of the ROK Marines then grabbed the nearest NVA and flung him out of the helicopter to the jungle several thousand feet below. The USMC guys were wide-eyed and stunned while the ROKs didn't even blink. It may bave been an effort to show they were badass but it worked.

Anonymous said...

Why does Vdare assume that Asian-Americans hate white people?

Yeah, no wonder people think VDare is such a moronic, hateful site. You can't just say Asians hate whites, while posting a story that shows nothing of the kind.

Anonymous said...

"I've watched plenty of Korean and Japanese movies. Japanese ones struck me as more "weird" and horrific and violent."

But here's the difference. Japanese weirdness is just that. Korean weirdness really seems to be coming from the gut.

Hacienda said...

"Okay, that, along with 'Friend', is a good Kor flick."

"Once Upon a Time in High School"

This is a terrific movie. It's a kind of "commentary", if you need that, on the sullen, stifling nature of Korean high schools. More about the bullying, not about the oppressive test prep. Actually Korean high schools are great fun. Demonically fun and depraved. Imagine sexually predatory kpop stars run amok, bullying and sexed up, who in a US high setting would be the band members, first chair in the orchestra, Nat'l Honor Society, etc.

I really don't understand this idea that Koreans are missing out on something. I think it's whitey that's missing out.

Anonymous said...

"(Koreans)are the most Christian country in Asia and in business they are far and away the most honest."

Maybe most honest in being forthright. Japanese, being more inhibited, tend to hide stuff more, but they are more trustworthy.

Puppokawa said...

"In terms of sickness, nobody has anything on the Japanese. Check out their porn sometime - most of it is some gal in a school uniform getting raped. As a Korean colleague said of the Japs "What the f**k is wrong with those people"?"

But here's the difference. Japanese create separate spheres for normal behavior and 'sick fantasies'. So, in most places they act normal, but in fantasy zones, they act out their 'sickness'.
This release-valve for their sick fantasies do have a therapeutic value. This tradition goes back to the Floating World culture of prostitutes, artists, entertainers, underground elements in feudal Japan. We had to read this guy's book in a college course on Japanese society. Though not necessarily approved by society, they were tolerated and even regarded as neceesary outlets for creativity, eccentricity, and fantasies. Though Japan was profoundly influenced by Confucianism, their worship of nature, native pagan traditions(like worship of penis statues), and vibrant merchant class led to a greater appreciation of the weirdness of life. So, the Japanese, instead of completely repressing that stuff, compartmentalized it. As long as people played weird in the weird zone or red zone, it was okay. So, it's okay for a middle aged salarymen to screw cartoon character cosplay hookers in the red zone as long they act normal at home and at work.

Korean culture was traditionally more monomaniacally Confucian-moralist, and so their weirdness wasn't given much of an outlet. So, they tend to be sicker and more demented in the normal sphere.
Japanese may fantasize about rape and etc, but Japanese are not known for high rape rates and violence toward women. Koreans, in contrast, are famous as wife beaters and real rape.
Koreans repress their sickness more, which is why they are more sick.

Puppovich said...

"P.J. O'Rourke's impression from a visit to Seoul was that Koreans are the Protestant Irish, the Ulstermen, of Asia. (O'Rourke is Protestant Irish, by the way.)"

From that article, I got the impression that Koreans are legendary farters. I don't remember much else.

Puppoleon said...

Napoleon once said, "Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world."

I say "Let Asia study, for when she learns to think, she may take the world."

Studying is good, but Asian style is most certainly counterproductive. Instead of efficiently selecting talent(through understanding of genetics and IQ), nurturing creativity and originality among the smart set, and etc, Asia grinds everyone--smart to dumb--through the educational sausage grinder. Thus, Asia produces lots of capable and well-trained people, but few visionaries and revolutionaries in science and technology.
As long as Asia carries on this way, it will never outperform the West where it matters most: cutting edge stuff.

Jonathan Silber said...

Next on Dog the Bounty Hunter: Dog tracks a fugitive Korean grind and, while hauling the recreant back to face the music, persuades him to withdraw from a Kaplan GRE test prep class.

Ask any allied POW how civil the Japanese were said...

Puppokawa

Japanese may fantasize about rape and etc, but Japanese are not known for high rape rates and violence toward women. Koreans, in contrast, are famous as wife beaters and real rape.
Koreans repress their sickness more, which is why they are more sick.


Exactly the opposite. Koreans are not repressed which is why they can express anger and even fight in public. The Japanese salarymen meekly rides the subway home to whack off to comics and fantasize about violently raping innocent little schoolgirls as hoary old men or obscenely endowed aliens.

Japanese are far more repressed than Koreans. This explains how they can be meticulously polite at home but gorge themselves in over-the-top mass murder, rape, human experimentation and excessive abuse in places like Nanking, Manila, Mongolia (Unit 731) and in their treatment of allied POWs and women (Korean, Chinese, Dutch, etc) by forcing them into being confort women.

Self-reported rape stats by country are probably not very accurate for either Korea or Japan (shame in both societies leads to underreporting). The first nat'l rape stats I could find have Japan #12 (1,582) and S.Korea #69 (13.3). What stats do you have to back up your counterclaims?

"The Japanese are a cruel people"
- Bridget Jones' mother

Hacienda said...

"The first nat'l rape stats I could find have Japan #12 (1,582) and S.Korea #69 (13.3). What stats do you have to back up your counterclaims?"

1. France
2. Germany
3. Russia
4. SWEEEEE-DEN

Lol. Now just what would be the ranking of the most hypocritical nations of Earth? If would probably closely mirror the list above.

Skebe Sararimanu said...

Hacienda

Lol. Now just what would be the ranking of the most hypocritical nations of Earth? If would probably closely mirror the list above.


Agreed - I raised the overall validity of the list given that S.Africa is #40 and Sweden is #4 in rapes.

But the shame of rape is similar in Japan and Korea to a first approx so it's more like comparing apples and oranges than pebbles and watermelons.

As another comparison, many Western women complain of being groped, videotaped upskirt or being subjected to some other perversity by strangers on the Tokyo Subway who act innocent or vociferously deny it when called out. I have not heard that complaint coming from Westerners in Seoul.

Puppy said...

"Japanese are far more repressed than Koreans."

In public they are. But they are allowed to enter into zones to act out their fantasies.
Koreans have fewer such outlets, so their anger explodes more in public.

Also, it's not just a matter of repression but manners. Japanese culture has greater emphasis on form with deep roots in its arts and cultural expression. It's not just about Confucian hierarchy but an aesthetic pride in proper expression.
Korean manners are rooted in Confucian propriety but Koreans have a less developed aesthetic sense of behavior. In some ways, this is not a bad thing. Koreans may be more vital and spontaneous in their actions. But it can also be stupid.

Anonymous said...

"The first nat'l rape stats I could find have Japan #12 (1,582) and S.Korea #69 (13.3). What stats do you have to back up your counterclaims?"

1. France
2. Germany
3. Russia
4. SWEEEEE-DEN

-------------

Some cultures generally don't report rape, so stats like this aren't necessarily reliable. Most rapes in South Africa are not reported, so official and unofficial stats vary widely.
Sweden is very feminist so just about ANY woman will report rape.

Many rapes in Korea may not go reported. I took an anthropology course in modern Korean society in college and was told Korea has very high rape rate, but many women don't go to the police out of shame. Police, family members, and etc are likely to blame the victim than the perpetrator. Even when the victim is not blamed, the stain of having been raped is thought to taint one's life forever.
I recall listening to NPR in the 90s about Korean comfort women used by Japanese in Manchuria. Many of them never said anything about their ordeal when they returned. And if their families found out, the women were often kicked out of the house as objects of shame. And until relatively recently, Korean society didn't touch on the issue as a kind of national shame. (Today, with victim politics having spread to Korea, Koreans make lots of noise about it. But even though I acknowledge their pain, I cannot sympathize much. I read in the Chicago Tribune that former comfort women protest the Japanese embassy by hurling decapitated dog heads on the streets. What a bunch of barbaric sickos. Though I would never say any woman should have gone through what they went through, can't they put 2 and 2 together? If it was horrible for them to be abused by people with power, can't they see it's horrible for them to abuse dogs, poor animals that are completely at the mercy of humans? Koreans should learn like act human.)
Anyway, in the NPR report, a woman said she finally told her son, and her son screamed at her like it was her fault. Terrible guy, but I wonder why he ended up that way. Maybe because he was raised in a culture--of which his mother is a part--that shows little sympathy for the weak, helpless, and downtrodden. Koreans who raise their kids to beat and kick dogs shouldn't expect much in the way of mercy or sympathy.

Btw, I wonder if Korean antipathy to dogs is a kind of self-loathing. Since the are not allowed to bloom as complete humans and must grovel like dogs, maybe they see their doglike status in society reflected in dogs. So, by abusing dogs, Koreans are saying 'I'm not a dog' or attacking the dog-inside-them. Paradoxically, Koreans could be obsessive about distinguishing themselves from lowly dogs cuz they act like lowly dogs.

Some commentator said Koreans acted badass in Vietnam. But they were mere pitbulls of the US doing the bidding of Uncle Sam. They barked loud to feel tough and manly, but the louder they barked and attacked at the behest of Uncle Sam, more they were acting like running dogs. But Korean society well-prepared for this kind of doggishness. Koreans seem too stupid to confront the contradictiosn of their own demented psychology.

Puppy said...

"today they also admit their behavior during the Seoul olympics was awful. They say "we were young" meaning as a democracy."

So they've matured? Is that why they acted like total louts over Apollo Ohno, who rightfully won the race?

Hacienda said...

"Some cultures generally don't report rape."

True. Stats are touchy. Maybe France has a lot more than the huge number reported. The French are an excessively vain people after all. France maybe be one man, one rape. It does have that Napoleon to Washington complex, oui?

Bansai Bansai Bansai said...

Response to Nippon Nationalist Anonymous
Judging from how passive Japanese women are compared to Korean women and the fact that Japanese girls and women routinely quietly tolerate having dirty old businessmen grope them during subway rushhour, rape is probably more underreported by Japanese than Korean women (Saa, sho-ga nai ne).
Korean men are generally physically bigger and stronger as well as more masculine and impulsive than Japanese men due to Korean genetics and culture (which still has mandatory military training). In general, Japanese men are on the leading edge of the feminimized metrosexuality although Korea appears to be following this trend.
However beaten down and submissive the typical Japanese man seems today, they have sublimated their martial spirit and masculinity partially into violent rape fantasies that are overwhelming popular among Japanese men as evidence by such stories in nearly every businessman comic book (manga). Certainly, the well-document history of Japanese sadistically and violently behavior throughout Asia towards every non-Japanese nationality, especially women, shows their extremely high potential for beastiality, especially sexual.
As with all things Korean, the dog issue is divisive. Although technically illegal, you still have elite, well-educated urbanites who protest against even mistreatment of dogs and a others who support consumption of dogmeat for cultural or business reasons. Koreans were only introduced to dogs as pets on a large scale since the 1990s. Now it seems hip Korean women are status jockying, carrying dogs with them everywhere to see who has the most pampered pooch.
Korea is 10-15yrs behind Japan due to the intensity and dates of WWII and the Korea War. My guess is that when Japan gives up killing the more intelligent whales and dolphins, the Koreans will follow behind by giving up on killing the more empathtic dog. Or they could be like the Chinese and continue for superstitious reasons. There are ignorant backwards peasants in all countries - the ones in Japan clean up better and melt into the background because that what Japanese highly conformist society demands.
BTW, I can't find links to your purported NPR and Chicago Tribune story - they sound (esp the Trib) bogus.
I liked your parting shot of Koreas as the running dogs of Uncle Sam. So is Japan Uncle Sam's lap kitty? Say a prayer to your Korean Emporer Akihito when you go to the gates of the Imperial Palace to offer prayers this New Year.

Ohno, isn't that Japanese? said...

Puppy

So they've matured? Is that why they acted like total louts over Apollo Ohno, who rightfully won the race?


It's not clear cut that Apollo Ohno deserved the gold by disqualifying the S.Korean winner. Reading the comments, it seems it came down to the judge's discretion and Ohno hammed it up like a soccer flopper.

Ohno also clearly took out S.Korean skater Ahn and others for which Ahn was blamed. However, it appears Ohno was first brushed by a Chinese skater trying to pass on the outside.

I don't know what the Korean reaction was to Ohno, but it's probably not too different from the trash talk that I see from SEC college football jock sniffers - warranted or not. Koreans do add a unique intensifying agent to everything they do as Steve notes (work, study, riot...).

Puppy saga said...

Heartless and stupid Korean loonies. They protest against politial oppression--Japanese imperialism--by abusing their own power over helpless adorable dogs.

Puppy head-butt said...

"In general, Japanese men are on the leading edge of the feminimized metrosexuality although Korea appears to be following this trend.
However beaten down and submissive the typical Japanese man seems today, they have sublimated their martial spirit and masculinity partially into violent rape fantasies that are overwhelming popular among Japanese men as evidence by such stories in nearly every businessman comic book (manga)."

No, all this wimpy weirdo Japanese fantasy has little to do with sublimination of martial spirit. For most of Japanese history, martial spirit-stuff was allowed only to samurai caste who made up 5% of the population. The other 95% has to kiss samurai ass. It was with modernization that outlawed the samurai caste and democratized martialism in the name of Japanese nationalism(in late 19th century up to end of WWII). For the bulk of Japanese history, most Japanese were not allowed to be martial; they had to be
mouse-cial. So, Japan has had a long history--among most of its men--of servitude, wimpery, gimpery, and bow-low mousery.

My first introduction to Japanese stuff--other than Godzilla and Gamera movies--was SHOGUN, a howler that became a major topic of discussion at school. We couldn't believe the stuff we saw. Some Japanese guy fails to bow and this samurai runt named Omi chops off his head. Soon after, Omi pees on Richard Chamberlain and boils a man alive. Wow! It got me fascinated about Japan--watching KAGEMUSHA around the same time helped some too.

Anyway, martialism for most of Japanese history was limited to a few. Most people had to be obedient mouses... or else get their heads chopped off(at least according to SHOGUN). And Japan's long civil war probably led to lots of tough guys killing one another, which means when the dust settled, there were fewer tough guys left. Paradoxically, the extreme martialism of the samurai elite may have made Japan less manly. Samurai not only killed one another in huge numbers but weeded out the unruly members of lower castes by lopping their heads off over the slightest infraction.

Indeed, one could see the histories of Japan and Korea as social experiments in different forms of violence. Japanese, over many centuries, practiced
head-choppery.
Korean society, in contrast, wasn't dominated by a ruthless warrior caste that carried deadly swords. It was dominated by bureaucrats, scholars, and landlords. They could be brutal with their underlings or lower folks who got out of line, but they didn't regularly chop off heads of those who got out of line. Chances are people who were unruly got their asses whupped.
I google-imaged 'traditional Korean punishment' and came upon this. Instead of chopping heads, Koreans practiced butt-bashing. Now, butt-bashing, I'm sure, could be mightly unpleasant but I don't think it killed most people. So, if unruly Japanese died on the spot--with their heads chopped off--and didn't pass down their genes, unruly Koreans got aching butts but still passed down their genes. Maybe some did die from butt-bashing, but tougher and meaner ones--with tougher butts--surely survived. So maybe this explains badassness and rage among Koreans. Unruly among them have been butt-bashed and multiplying over the centuries. It could be unruly people, after getting their butts bashed, were even hornier cuz they needed to restore their sense of manhood after the humiliation; so maybe they had more kids.

So, two experiments. One that practiced head-chopping of unruly elements over many centuries and one that practiced butt-bashing of the unruly elements over many centuries.
Japan vs Korea: head-chop nation vs butt-bash nation.

Korean dog whisperer said...

That pic is nothing like the description given of elderly former comfort women (implied) decapitating live dogs and tossing their bloody heads into a Japanese embassy in protest.

As disturbing as it is to Westerners, it is a former ROC army commando who appears to be symbolically putting knives into professionally butchered dog heads duct taped in a neat row in a formal ceremony commemorating the Japanese bloody repression of the peaceful declaration of independence by Koreans. In the West you can buy similarly butchered pigs heads.

The article says the 5 dog heads represent 5 Korean traitors. The implication is that, in this context, dogs serve the same symbolism as pigs do in the West For example, when protesters call brutal cops "fascist pigs" or throw pig blood on someone they revile.

I like dogs as much as the next American, but I have traveled enough in the world to realize that a lot of cultural values are culturally relative. Given that many Koreans just started adopting dogs as pets less than 20yrs ago, I suspect this image and role of the dog in Korean society will change as it has in Europe and other areas.

ChiRePan said...

cat("Puppy",varEnd)

The Japanese demonstrated pretty widespread martial spirit in WWII. It wasn't just confined to the well-bread samurai families that populated the officer corps of Imperial Japan.

Just look at the waves of suicide attacks against US Marines and the widespread refusal to surrender - committing seppuku if necessary. The miniscule Japanese POW rates probably also had something to do with GIs utterly pissed at the treachery and brutality of the Japanese when either surrendering to or capturing enemies.

Japan's long feudal history with Confucian influence no doubt helped groom a nation of overwhelmingly obedient followers. However, the same goes for Korea.

In fact, the Samurai period is dated to as early as 100yrs after close allies Japan and Baekje were defeated by the Tang and Silla in the Battle of Baekgang. Some scholars believe the Kaekje Kingdom in Korea was a remnant of the Koreans who invaded Japan. Over 10% of early Kofun Japanese aristocratic families were distinctly immigrants from China and Korea. The Chinese, Korean and Japanese records are unclear but there is definite proof of close cultural, political and technical flow from Korea/China to Japan.

I have a hard time thinking the Japanese were generally less tolerant or violent than Koreans. Also, the image of a Shogun frequently beheading an underling on a whim sounds like another Samurai myth. Human history and social organizations consistently correct excessive and capricious tyranny.

Anonymous said...

Interestingly, I've heard the Korean soldiers of the Empire of Japan were quite the worst of the Japanese troops, in terms of behaviour, in the Second World War. "The Korean POW guards were notably even more brutal than the Japanese".

They're not an even sample of Koreans, perhaps, but...

I think there's definitely something more weird and screwed up and repressive in their culture. They didn't really stumble into the mix of late feudalism with early twentieth century extreme nationalism (the kind that most Europeans at least got skeptical of after WWI) that Japan did, but that doesn't mean that they aren't just more violent and odd in general over time.

Pup said...

"That pic is nothing like the description given of elderly former comfort women (implied) decapitating live dogs and tossing their bloody heads into a Japanese embassy in protest."

I swear I didn't make it up. Email Tribune and ask if they have an article about Korean comfort women and dog heads. Tell them you need it for research. They might look it up for you.
Not everything has been archived online.

The article was from the 90s or early 2000s.

Puppisawa said...

"The Japanese demonstrated pretty widespread martial spirit in WWII."

That's what I done said. Martialism was DEMOCRATIZED with the creation of MODERN Japan. But traditionally, most of Japanese weren't allowed to partake of martial spirit. In the great civil wars, peasants were employed as ground troops with lances or muskets, but traditionally, only the samurai could be martial folks.

Anonymous said...

"Work hard, study hard, riot hard."

And let's not forget 'massacre hard'. The V-tech nut holds the record as top killer in America. Dang.

Puppisan said...

I wonder to what extent Asian craziness--when it flares up--is a matter of anger/aggression or frustration/desperation.

I think Westerners, especially Anglo-Americans, have many more gears. Low gear would be social mildness and high gear would be social rage. But there are many gears in between. In fact, at work and school, shifting among various gears is a kind of social play among Americans. And this play sharpens their wits. Ribbing one another is a great American pasttime(though PC dampened some of the fun); just look at Screwball comedies. You win respect by giving as well as you get. And you keep your cool and rely on wit. And even if you come off worse, you laugh afterwards in the spirit of fun and in admiration of the better wit. Though blacks are known for rage, they too have lots of gears when necessary--in some ways, more than whites. Obama knows how to play everything from uncle tom gear to radical black nationalist gear, though he cruises somewhere in the middle most times. Also, blacks take pride in a jazzy ability to 'toy with white boy', and this requires some pizzazz.

Maybe Westerners--and Western-influenced people--are thus cuz their linguistic culture became richer and more expressive than the Asian stuff. This could be based on genetics. After all, the Red man is related to the yellow man, and his entire language seems to consist of few expressions: 'how', 'pale face have firewater?' ' this bad injun; me good injun and kill bad injun for good white man'.

But Westerns could have more social gears cuz their societies were more equal(relatively speaking). Since there was more social freedom and since one couldn't rely solely on one's social allotment in relations with others, one's worth or status vis-a-vis other had to be gauged by how one could shift or negotiate 'among' gears. If Asian ideal was 'bow to system', Western ideal is 'keep your wits'. In fact, Western bosses don't like slavish twits(who only take orders) and prefer fast wits(with some initiative). Take Linc Bartlett in the series NOBLE HOUSE.

Another reason could be Western competition and imperialism. Having competed so much with one another in Europe and then conquering and dealing with so many peoples/cultures, Western man might have developed better ability to understand and negotiate.(Of Jews are better at this than anyone, but they've been middlemen folks for millennia.)
Asians, for most of their history, lived in isolation and weren't(and still aren't)used to shifting gears and socially improvising on the spot. They are used to few fixed gears agreed upon by a holistic community of shared values. This could be why the Irish were such hotheads. An isolated European nation, it was less adept with dealing with the rest of the world, that is until they learned the art of negotiation from the Anglos. Today's archetypal Irishman is Bono. Hugging Irish than Fighting Irish.

Puppisan said...

In SHOGUN, consider the relation between Chamberlain and the Portuguese guy(Jean Rhys Davies). They are bitter enemies of opposed empires, but they have many gears to play between them. They can insult each other's mothers and still laugh about it. Imagine a samurai going to a samurai of another clan and trashtalking about 'yoru mamasan' and both guys laughing. Not likely.
For the Asian mind, there are the low gears of peace-by-obedience-or-being-obeyed and the high gear of intense conflict/violence. There isn't much in between. So, when Asians are caught in the zones between those gears, they might feel lost and frustrated. They are more likely to go into fight or flight more, or bite or bow mode. Hot and cold, but not much that is cool or warm.
They're used to being socially superior or socially inferior. They don't know how to navigate as free individuals with strangers.

This could be why friendship may be, in some way, valued more in Asia. In the Korean movie FRIEND, friends are social equals in a society where, outside friendship, everything is strict hierarchy--whether in school, family, gangster world, politics, etc. Friends can bullshit one another and laugh about it, but one cannot do this outside friendship. But among Westerners, it can even be done between arch enemies like the two white guys in SHOGUN.

Nippon Ichiban Da Yo said...

I've heard the Korean soldiers of the Empire of Japan were quite the worst of the Japanese troops, in terms of behaviour, in the Second World War. "The Korean POW guards were notably even more brutal than the Japanese".

Japanese Imperial brutality began with their intrigues into Korea in the late 1800s. The Japanese were brutally massacring Koreans decades before they were doing the same to the Chinese, Filipinos, Vietnamese, Indonesians, Allied POWS, etc.

Yes, there is a psychology to brutality and humans can be trained to be such much like pit bulls. Like Koreans POW guards, it is said that some of the most cruel and brutal guards in Jewish ghettos were Nazi-appointed Jewish guards.

As bad as any collaborator Korean guards may have been, I think their actions were merely pale imitations of their unquestioned Japanese leaders who gave orders and set the example in places like Nanking and Unit 731.

Given the historical and cultural similarities, if Korea had outpaced and conquered Japan as well as took on the Allies in WWII, the outcomes may have been little different. The biggest difference being that the Japanese social order and aesthetic appeals to the West more, so they have come under far less scrutiny considering their behaviors.

Hentai Skebbe Chikan said...

And let's not forget 'massacre hard'. The V-tech nut holds the record as top killer in America. Dang.

Yes, Koreans are noted for taking everything they do to extremes. I think they are the #1 Missionary per capita and send their holy rollers into the most Godforsaken places in the world.

Regarding mass shooters, Koreans don't really stand out. Whites, and anglos in particular, have a lot of mass murderers. The VTech guy, like the Norwegian guy, was probably smarter, more disciplined and better trained than the average shooting loon. Smart guys can create do a lot more evil if given power (witness the financial elite raping US and global taxpayers via "bailouts" giveaways).

On the other hand, the Japanese have some pretty uniquely F'ed sh*t going on like rape comic porn and otherwise respectable businessmen groping women on subways. Check out any hentai search on YouTube or Google to see what I mean.

Here is an article entitled Japan Raises the Pervert Bar Once Again for a restaurant where diners who love meat can really *love* meat.

Check out the Japanese celebrity Issei Sagawa famous for murdering and eating the body of a female Dutch classmate at the Sorbonne. And this guy is walking free in Tokyo and celebrated by the Japanese media and public? WTF?

Anonymous said...

Regarding mass shooters, Koreans don't really stand out. Whites, and anglos in particular, have a lot of mass murderers.

North Americans stand out, without much difference in per capita rate between East Asia and Europe, last time I did the numbers (from wikipedia).

Asians Americans are more overrepresented than White Americans.

Matt said...

Given the historical and cultural similarities, if Korea had outpaced and conquered Japan as well as took on the Allies in WWII, the outcomes may have been little different.

Good point actually. I think if "The Cleanest Race" had run wild, we probably wouldn't have seen too much difference in outcome, for all that I'm guessing that their feudalism combined with early 20th century military nationalism made the Japanese rampages slightly more likely.

Seismic Puppy said...

I think I got it. The problem with Asians is they treat people(at least social inferiors)like dogs and treat dogs like things.
They should treat humans as humans, dogs as dogs, and things as things.
Since Asians are not allowed full human-dom, they compete with dogs for dog-dom. So, dogs must be pushed down a notch as 'things'.

Dogs, All of You said...

Seismic Puppy said...

I think I got it. The problem with Asians is they treat people(at least social inferiors)like dogs and treat dogs like things.


The elite in Europe (and the West ingeneral) have historically treated the masses as inferiors and animals like dogs as well. You should read how Russian, British, French and German aristocrats viewed their inferiors.

In what may be a historical anomoly, the West seems to be ending a relatively brief period of liberte, egalite and fraternate. We are returning to historical norms as a tiny global elite have captured governments and put the masses in perpetual financial servitude under the guise of "national debt" and private bank/financial speculating bailouts/ handovers.

Seismic Puppy said...

It may be a matter of degrees but degrees matter.

After it's only a matter of degrees between 95 C and 100 C. But with difference of only 5 C, water boils or doesn't boil.