November 9, 2011

Chinese kindness

The L.A. Times has an article about how the Chinese are doing some soul-searching after videos have been posted of their callousness toward accident victims. In one incident, a lady from Uruguay was the only bystander to come to the aid of a victim.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if people in general are that quick to help out in emergencies, especially if they can tell themselves that somebody else will handle it. 

In 1993, I was driving down Lawrence Blvd. in Chicago, and was stopped at a red light at Western Blvd., third in line. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw somebody sprint across Western trying to make the bus at the corner. Bam! She got hit by a car, rolled up on the hood, fell off the right side of the hood, and landed on her head in the lane of traffic. 

"Wow," I said to myself. "If there weren't so many pedestrians, bus passengers, and other drivers closer to her than me, I really ought to get out and drag her out of the street before somebody else runs her over and finishes her off." I waited maybe two seconds, but nobody else moved toward her. So, I grabbed my keys and sprinted about 100 feet to her, waving my arms to alert drivers not to hit us. The young woman had a golf-ball size lump on her skull, but was moving enough, trying to get to her knees to crawl, to show that her neck and back weren't broken. I hauled her to the sidewalk. 

In May 1999, I was walking south along the west bank of the Chicago River toward, as I recall, the Madison St. bridge at 6 pm, in a huge crowd during rush hour. I saw something plummet off the bridge, which is about 50 feet high, heard a splash, and saw arms waving frantically in the cold river. Probably about thousand bystanders gawked at the woman in the water. 

I ran a half block down to the bridge, yelling for somebody to call 911 (I didn't have a cell phone), then sprinted across the river, passing hundreds of people, to the lifesaver ring attached to a rope in a glass case at the bridgetender's tower near the corner of Madison and South Wacker. That's probably a few hundred yards, and I'm slow, so that must have taken at least 90 seconds, but when I got to the life preserver, nobody else was there. (I am an old Boy Scout type, so I had noticed the life ring years before; I imagine most pedestrians never paid any attention to it.)

I whacked ineffectually on the glass with my casual leather shoe a few times, but then a well-dressed passer-by gave me his umbrella and I smashed the glass, wrecking his umbrella. (He didn't mind.) I then ran back to the middle of the river, tied the rope to the railing, yelled down to the woman, and dropped the buoy (managing to not clonk her on the head with the lifesaver, which would have been ironic but unfortunate). She grabbed it and hung on, and about 5 minutes later a fire department boat arrived and hauled her in. 

This was an upscale crowd, too, mostly Loop office workers on their way to the Northwestern train station to ride home to the nice suburbs. But the guy who volunteered his umbrella for me to use in smashing the glass was the first other person I noticed taking any self-initiated action in the first 100 or so seconds. 

So, while I imagine the Chinese do need to get better, it's not like Americans are all that forthcoming, especially when there is a huge crowd of others who might get involved first.

145 comments:

Anonymous said...

That is astonishing.

Steve, would you agree that something like 95% of the population are basically lemmings? Sometimes, they just seem completely inert.

Anonymous said...

Steve:
One word (at least for Americans)"liability." I have to think our litigiousness has filtered down to your would-be Samaritan. Suppose the woman you moved later claimed that by moving her you'd caused permanent paralysis?

Jehu said...

Its not really surprising at all---you've got Diversity + Diffusion of Responsibility all in one neat package.

Grumpy Old Man said...

The first thing they tell you in CPR training is that in an emergency, you have to point to a specific person and say, "You--call 911!" "Someone call 911" doesn't work.

Years ago, in New York, I called the cops because some guy was passed out on the street. Their comment: "Oh, that's Eddie. He's strung out on heroin."

You have to decide in your heart that you will help strangers. My Lord and my church tell me I must.

Anonymous said...

China probably doesn't have Good Samaritan laws. In the US, you learn about Good Samaritan laws only if you take special training like a lifeguarding class or an EMT class.

ben tillman said...

Bravo, Steve.

Anonymous said...

On the other hand, I'm not sure if people in general are that quick to help out in emergencies, especially if they can tell themselves that somebody else will handle it.

You also need to believe you know what to do.

A few months ago I was driving at night through a rural area from city to another. Maybe 20 miles out from my city cars traveling the other way began to flash their high-beams at me. I assumed they were warning me of an upcoming speed camera. But as I drove on I noticed cars pulling over and stopping. A bit farther on I noticed debris strewn over the road and I soon came upon the scene of a five or six card accident.

My girlfriend started shrieking ohmygod, ohmygod. When she noticed I wasn't stopping she started getting hysterical. What are you doing? Aren't you going to stop? Those people could be dying!!!

I said, look, do you know anything about administering first aid? I sure don't. Can you give mouth-to-mouth or perform CPR? I can't.

She admitting she didn't have any idea either.

I said I don't even know whether you're supposed to move their bodies or not. What if you move someone and you break one of his bones? I don't wanna get sued by some nutcase trying to make an easy buck. If we can't actually do anything then what's the point of stopping? Just to stand around and gawk and pretend we're giving them "moral support"?

But it's accident!! You're supposed to stop!! she shrieked.

Oh please. There were about six cars that had already stopped. They're probably those people's friends so they'll be able to do more to help than I can (BS, in a way, but it sounded good and helped calm her down). And obviously one of them has already called for an ambulance. So believe me there really would not have been any point in stopping.

She kept going on with "I can't believe you're not going to stop..." for a while, which I tried to ignore but eventually snapped at her that I'm not stopping or turning back and that's that. She shut up after that.

Then after about fifteen minutes of mulling it over in my head I turned to her and said, "Look, I'm going to have to say this. I'm not a bad person. I do plenty of things for other people, including total strangers, when I know I can actually help. For example, I stop for hitchhikers all the time, no matter how late the hour or how remote the stretch of road or if I have to go out of my way to get them to their destination. So don't make out like I'm some selfish asshole or something." [This is true, I do stop for hitchhikers all the time.] That made me feel better but I couldn't quite shake the feeling that I probably should have stopped... but again, just what was I supposed to do? and again, it's not as if there weren't other cars already stopped...

Silver

Fred said...

You're a good man, Steve.

Anonymous said...

I have to think our litigiousness has filtered down to your would-be Samaritan. Suppose the woman you moved later claimed that by moving her you'd caused permanent paralysis?

That's absolutely true in my case. In the story just described (assuming Steve posts it) I didn't quite relate the totality of what I said to my girlfriend in defense of my not stopping for an accident. (I didn't want to sound too callous.) "What if I move someone and I break one of his bones and the nutcase decides to sue me for it? Eff him! Let him burn in his effing the car, the effing goddam POS. If that's what you get for trying to help people, then eff them all!"

Logic isn't much of a friend when arguing with a hysterical female. Merely shouting back at her in itself doesn't do much either, but if you can if you call upon a reserve of righteous anger, that can sometimes help tip the moral scales your way and shut her up sooner than may have otherwise been the case.

Silver

Anonymous said...

And then there's Utah:

http://youtu.be/ts4s4KKQXmE

Simon in London said...

IME people in Britain always seem to respond instantly to accidents etc like this, certainly in Northern Ireland (where I have been the recipient of aid) but even in London, so I have never had to that I can recall - there are always helpers already leaning over the fallen.

I have to say I didn't feel any inclination to help the time I saw a silly Pakistani get his foot run over, but he limped off ok.

Anonymous said...

Like your story shows, people are plenty willing to help if someone gives the lead. 90% of the utility of Boy Scout training is that impresses on you to do something. In emergencies anything done quickly is probably better than doing nothing.

-osvaldo M.

Anonymous said...

Well done Steve- that's really great to hear you come through in emergencies. Completely insane that in a great city like Chicago nobody did sh3t. Depressing.

I like to think of myself as someone who roots for the underdog. That extends to helping people in need. Driving on 95 between DC and Baltimore, a lady on shoulder of left lane trying to change right front tire. Bad situation- she was incompetent and would have been there for hours. I pulled over and had to back up about eighth of mile. Told her to stand behind me and make sure nobody was veering out of lane.

I think I got more from it than her because I told EVERYBODY what I did.....

I see it with kids acting wild in public as well. I generally get in their faces and shut them down..... amazes me how little respect they have for adults but not surprising cause adults so rarely hold the line....so what's to respect?

I still think you should have dove in after her..... a life ring after 4 minutes....thanks for nothing.

Kidding- keep up the good work!

Dan in DC

Geoff Matthews said...

When I was in college, a textbook called this Diffusion of Responsibility. I've heard Kitty Genovese thrown around a lot for this as well (though the story on that has been distorted).

I agree that we tend to ignore others problems, but I like to think that a kid would elicit more sympathy.

Don't know if it is true, but I like to think that.

There was something called an SEP field in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. SEPs (Somebody Else's Problem) supposedly made things invisible.

Get Off My Lawn! said...

Steve! You're a hero!

Anyway, this phenomenon has been pretty thoroughly explored by psychologists. It's called "bystander effect." You can Wiki the name for a longer discussion, but basically the idea is that people are slow offer help when other people are around. The more bystanders, the slower they are to help.

Several reasons are posited for this effect, all summarized in the article. They boil down to (among others): Assuming that someone else will act; assuming that the fact that no one is doing anything means there's nothing to be done; and fear of embarrassment by failing the effort to help. The latter is apparently especially common among hypermasculine men. No offense intended. :)

Conversely, people are very likely to help another person if they are alone.

I'm pretty sure this is a universal cultural phenomenon with a long history and has nothing to due with liability, religious faith, or nationality.

Anonymous said...

Wasn't there something in the story about how people fear that if they stop to help, they'll be somehow punished or held liable?

For comparison, former Massachusetts senator William Saltonstall was upset that the driver who killed his daughter never apologized; he was told there was a fear that private apologies could be legally construed as admission of guilt for lawsuit purposes. So he sponsored a bill to change the law.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/obituaries/articles/2009/01/25/william_l_saltonstall_at_81_former_massachusetts_state_senator/?page=2

Anonymous said...

Off Topic:

In the area of "patterns we aren't supposed to notice," what's up with the high percentage of serial killers who are gay?

If you look at the worst US serial killers by number of victims, the #1 victim type appears to be boys, followed by (female) prostitutes at #2. Presumably, male prostitutes are harder to subdue. But why have there been no, or fewer, famous serial killers of girls?

as said...

You're a good Boy Scout, Steve.

kurt9 said...

One word - LIABILITY

sabril said...

By the way, what were the races of the people you saved and would it affect your decision to expose yourself to risk and liability?

ironrailsironweights said...

If you look at the worst US serial killers by number of victims, the #1 victim type appears to be boys, followed by (female) prostitutes at #2. Presumably, male prostitutes are harder to subdue. But why have there been no, or fewer, famous serial killers of girls?

More difficult for (male) serial killers to get access to young girls?

Peter

Arkanabar said...

I was once hit by a car and knocked across three lanes while riding my bicycle through an intersection. I don't remember the impact, but I was alert once I'd skidded to a stop (I was wearing a helmet certified by Snell Labs). I looked around and saw that the others were waiting to see if I was going to get up or not. I knew I wasn't going to get up, and I was worried they were going to start trying to drive around me, so I screamed as loud as I could.

It worked. People jumped out of their cars and brought me blankets (it was February) and I started giving people orders -- "You! Call 911! I need an ambulance. You! Call my mom at (number)! You! call my work and tell them I won't be in today." (I don't think I gave that guy the number.)

People nearly always need some direction in a crisis.

Anonymous said...

prediction: as the number of orientals increases in this country exotic and endangered species laws will be as much enforced as immigration laws.

Anonymous said...

I once was indoors about half a block from a bar when a giant crowd spilled out to watch two football-player sized guys ready to violently mess each other up.

I, at 140 pounts, got between them and shouted for them to cool it. Either of them could have killed me barehanded, but they came to their senses and the crowd turn from cheering to policing in about half a second after I showed up. There was no bloodshed that night

Anonymous said...

Colonel Hackworth wrote, "The facts of life in the Army are these. Even in a good outfit, ten percent of the soldiers are warriors, the rest are rock huggers. It's human nature. But in a well-trained, disciplined unit, when the warriors get up and go the rock huggers move out, too, if only because they'd be ashamed to hang back."

That's probably the same everywhere. Steve is not only the ten percent who take action in the world, he is also the ten percent who discusses subjects that we rock huggers are afraid to do in public.

Truth said...

You left out the parts where you dodged the terrorist-sniper bullets, shimmied down the rope with one arm after explaining in a German accent to the ineffectual police captain, "Nice day for a Deeep", and met with the blonde, who was beguiled by the sun reflecting off your right molar, in Barcelona thirty days later after you foiled the insidious plot!

Anonymous said...

Steve, good for you. Well done.

I think everyone claiming liability is the reason for inaction is delusional. Most people are weak and uncertain; lemmings and not much more.

Years ago I pulled people from a burning car at 2 am in rural country. Several people passed by.

In grad school, I often spoke up and then one day stopped. A group of students came to me and asked why I had stopped speaking up. They informed me that they shared many of my same thoughts.

People are designed to go along with the flow.

Jeff

Elli said...

Geez, Silver. With 6 cars stopped and 6 cars involved, there could easily be more victims than helpers.

Don't know what to do? Someone there could have directed you. "Hold pressure." "Get a blanket." "Watch this one and yell if he stops breathing."

Or maybe you're right. Look at a bunch of amateurs who don't know first aid screw this one up.

http://www.firerescue1.com/rescue/articles/1122507-Video-Bystanders-lift-burning-car-off-motorcyclist-in-Utah/

Anonymous said...

Shocking! The Chinese behavior described is shocking. You, Steve, did good and all that but it is still shocking that so many others did not do anything. I grew up in Soviet Russia. The evil empire, right? There, helping strangers in accidents was absolutely the default way of behaving. To this last minute, I assumed that the same is true in all of the World, certainly in civilized world, and, without question, in the USA. Oh well, at least it was true here, in the American Whitopia, in few bike-related accidents that I witnessed (being a recipient of strangers' help in one).

David said...

Why are they making a movie of Gladwell's "Blink" (starring Leo DiCaprio), when they could be making a movie about Steve?

Anonymous said...

prediction: as the number of orientals increases in this country exotic and endangered species laws will be as much enforced as immigration laws.

Is there any data on this or is it just based on the fact that they eat exotic foods and use exotic animal folk remedies?

You hear it a lot, but I've never seen data or evidence regarding it.

The American agronomist F.H. King (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Hiram_King) toured the Orient about 100 years ago and wrote a book called Farmers of Forty Centuries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers_of_Forty_Centuries) and noted in the book that the agriculture and activity there was very "sustainable".

So perhaps it comes from more recent times. But the idea seems to be that they've always been that way.

I am a Cult, not a Cause. said...

But when it came to bankers, we sure bailed them out pretty quick. We went out of our way to save the very peole wh threw us to the sharks.

I am a Cult, not a Cause. said...

I think in America, most people don't rush to help because accidents are relatively rare. Though there are plenty of car accidents in America, it's not something you see everyday.
Also, as Sailer said, people think someone has already taken action since we believe in the system.

In China, it could be people don't care because accidents are all too common and people see it everyday all around them. And the pace of life is so hectic, cramped, and rancorous that they have little emotion left beyond self-preservation and own family.

I am a Cult, not a Cause. said...

I prefer Chinese disinterest in your misfortune than black interest in your fortune.

Anonymous said...

It's called Kitty Genovese Syndrome.

Anonymous said...

But why have there been no, or fewer, famous serial killers of girls?


The most famous serial killer of them all, Ted Bundy, was a killer of girls. College co-eds for the most part.

Jerry Sandusky said...

I would've helped that boy out.

Duke of Qin said...

Interesting examples Steve but I think you overstate your case. The majority of Chinese worship no god but Mammon. The Chinese are also more likely to express amoralism than most other peoples. It isn't cruelty that that keeps the Chinese from acting like good samaritans but simple indifference coupled with the potential fear of being extorted. The worship of Mammon cannot be overstated and the chances of your would be rescuee claiming you are the perpetrator in order to extract some money, whether marginal or not, is at least in the minds of the Chinese a not discountable possibility.

In China, criminal as well as civil cases result in a financial judgements. Justice may be sweet, but money is even sweeter. That mother with the son clonked by wooden board would have had better results by offering 100 Yuan to the first driver hailed.

Whiskey said...

As noted in many stories, in China good samaritans get sued (since there is no one else under Chinese law to sue). Hence, the deliberate choice of policy is to discourage people helping other people. This is done so the Party controls all. It is very common in formal oligarchical societies based on some organization -- suppression of individualism at all costs. In China this has characterized society since the very beginning, of the Warring States Period.

Anonymous said...

A good example of bystanders doing nothing is Mike McQueary, currently an assistant coach at Penn State, who didn't intervene when he saw Jerry Sandusky raping a 10 year old boy in the Penn State showers but just waited until the next day to tell his dad and Joe Paterno.

Chicago said...

While on a fairly crowded, rush hour elevated train home from work a few years ago, some black youth started beating up some late teens black girl. He was going all out, using his fists full force. When people realized what was going on they started shouting for him to stop, then began to move towards him. They were middle-aged white women, older people, at least one small statured Hispanic. The perp pulled out something which looked like a gun and put it to the Hispanic's head, causing a flight of people away and escaping to other cars of the train. The perp got off at the next stop and ran off, getting away. I noticed that two big black guys, separate from each other, were sitting in seats close to the perp as he was beating up the girl. Either one was easily much bigger than the beater and could have grabbed him. Yet neither one did anything whatsoever, did not lift a finger but just sat there as if nothing was going on. It was the half-pint sized, older crowd of non-blacks who actually tried to do something. It gave me something to think about.

Anonymous said...

Almost everyone i know in who's been to italy has a story of italian women beating a gypsie thief on public transit.

PSU hearts little boys said...

A good example of bystanders doing nothing is Mike McQueary, currently an assistant coach at Penn State, who didn't intervene when he saw Jerry Sandusky raping a 10 year old boy in the Penn State showers but just waited until the next day to tell his dad and Joe Paterno.

McQueary was a lowly grad student at the time striving to make it in a field with very few jobs. Grad students in situations like that are like court jesters to kings - one impulsive act could've destroy his career.

Now why untouchable JoPa never did anything and even continued to contribute monies to the pedophile's boys charity, serve on its board and allow him offices and access to his football facilities is far more difficult to justify.

Anonymous said...

McQueary was a lowly grad student at the time striving to make it in a field with very few jobs. Grad students in situations like that are like court jesters to kings - one impulsive act could've destroy his career.

Do you really think breaking up a rape in progress or going to security, the cops, etc. really would've destroyed him?

Life is Cheaper by the Billions said...

I've heard far worse stories about the cheapness of and indifference to human life from India. From people that have been to both, China sounds far more civilized than India.

Even so, neither approach the altruism displayed in the Anglosphere - especially in parts where homogenity has preserved this altruistic trait like rural VT or IA.

Anonymous said...

Is there any data on this or is it just based on the fact that they eat exotic foods and use exotic animal folk remedies?

i did say prediction.


@Komment Kontrol: i posted a youtube link to a similar chinese incident - a caucasian boy being beaten in the street while chinese stood and laughed. KK, i will never be able to figure out your kensorship policies..

Anonymous said...

This sort of thing isn't unknown among overseas Chinese. A decade ago in Vancouver BC, a tourist in Chinatown was struck by severe chest pain. She went shop to shop, beggining to use the phone, but got turned away by all the merchants. Finally she collapsed and died.

Having been to my share of Chinese restaurants, I can tell you that if you want to use the phone or a bathroom, you got to purchase something first.

My sense is that by culture, the Chinese feel no obligation to help a stranger. More assimilated Chinese seem to be similar to Westerners.

As to the comment about Indians, I think you're not completely correct. Callousness to suffering seems to be apart of life in India, but Indian merchants in Vancouver wouldn't turn down someone looking to use a phone or bathroom. I know from personal experience.

Anonymous said...

I've heard about a thousand takes on the penn state scandal and not one of them interesting. Steve???

McQueary- how do you walk away from that? Granted Sandusky was a legend and he may have been in shock but still?

Paterno had to have been privy to the rumors about Sandusky not to mention the two acts that were documented. What the F was he thinking?

"kid in a candy store" has now been replaced with "Sandusky in a Second Mile Group home"

Dan in DC

Svigor said...

Dan in DC should move to the southeast. He'd be getting in fistfights or on queue trying to help women with flat tires.

Glaivester said...

I remember once in grad school, a boy was holding a girl against her will. I sort of got between them, and she ran off to her room, I slowed the guy down but he managed to get in the room with her before she could lock the door.

I yelled at a person to call security, when they did not know the number I looked it up and called myself, then recruited someone else to come with me to the room to see if we could get in there and stop the guy from doing anything. Fortunately, by the time we got there, the guy had realized he would be in trouble and had left of his own accord. A lot of other people were up at that time (as I said before, I was yelling), which probably helped.

The police came and took a report. Ultimately, I don't know what happened other than that I was asked to testify in an assault case and then it was dropped.

Svigor said...

You left out the parts where you dodged the terrorist-sniper bullets, shimmied down the rope with one arm after explaining in a German accent to the ineffectual police captain, "Nice day for a Deeep", and met with the blonde, who was beguiled by the sun reflecting off your right molar, in Barcelona thirty days later after you foiled the insidious plot!

Sounds like a Schwarzenegger plot, except for the blonde - it would be a mulatto or a mestizo in a Schwarzenegger flick.

ironrailsironweights said...

Look at a bunch of amateurs who don't know first aid screw this one up

Link.

Of course, there's the recent case in Brooklyn, in which an injured motorcyclist was pinned under a car. Cops and firefighters jacked up the car so they could pull him out but neglected to shore up the vehicle as they should have done. The car slipped off the jack and crushed the cyclist to death.

Peter

Svigor said...

Thanks Duke, now I don't have to be the racist bastard talking about what he only intuits, having never lived in China.

Life is cheaper by the billion.

Anonymous said...

I think the Chinese are just embarrassed more then anything else. With the internet you see stuff you didn't see years ago. The fact is life is VERY CHEAP in China. Too many mice in the cage...

Bourbon said...

Steve Sailer is a remnant of a once-great civilization.

(BTW, I am not writing this in my sarcastic, Whiskey-mocking persona. I mean it. You really are pretty damn awesome.)

Anonymous said...

A bit farther on I noticed debris strewn over the road and I soon came upon the scene of a five or six card accident.

Another poker tragedy.

Shawn said...

Diffusion of responsibility has been studied quite a bit. You have probably heard about Kitty Genovese.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

Mr. Anon said...

I took a CPR/AED course recently, and a significant fraction of the course time was taken up discussing legal matters (liability, good-samaritan laws, etc.). The last time I had taken it, ten years ago, there was virtually no mention of those matters.

That said, I don't think that fear of liability exposure is what primarily keeps people passive in such situations. Some people are take-charge people - most people aren't.

There are also other considerations at work: squeamishness and a disinclination to get involved in a big bloody mess (people now are much more conscious of blood-borne diseases than they used to be).

It also seems to me that younger people are more inclined to get involved. With age comes a certain degree of timidity. I know that I'm not as willing to get involved as I once was. And I would have to admit I would be less inclined to help someone if I held some bias against their group.

agnostic said...

Definitely a Chinese / Asian thing. Did people see the one where two separate trucks run over the little girl and no one does anything, including the drivers? Would never happen here.

Helping out in these cases falls under the broader class of the kindness of strangers. Even Asians who've been here for awhile do not participate in trick-or-treating or sleepovers (one of Amy Chua's pet peeves).

And that's kids who aren't even total strangers -- your kid's friends, or neighborhood kids. Obviously they feel even less inclined to help out total strangers.

An obsession with guest-host relations only shows up in pastoralist cultures, especially around the Mediterranean, Middle East, and the lactose-tolerant parts of South Asia.

Europeans come from a mixed pastoralist / agriculturalist background, so we care a lot about honor and hospitality too, but not quite to the extreme that Arabs or Persians do.

But once you get to a culture with no pastoralism, forget about people striving to be good hosts to their guests. I had several Asian best friends growing up, and they never held sleepovers or let us enjoy the main living room to watch TV (we always had to hang out in their own room). I hardly remember being offered anything to eat or drink, the exact opposite of how all of my European friends and I would treat a guest.

The Anti-Gnostic said...

Heh. This is pretty timely, Steve-o.

Hypothetical: I'm the head football coach for a venerable Eastern university. A shaken grad assistant has just told me he saw my defensive coordinator anally raping a boy in the shower.

Do I a. leave a voicemail for some university bureaucrat, b. go for a walk in the clear, cool Pennsylvania air, c. relax and not worry about it--this will go away; or d. CALL THE F***ING COPS.

beowulf said...

I've often that it'd be worthwhile to require Universal Military Training for every high school graduate. Even if (after basic training) you were never called up from the Army Reserve to send lead downrange, you'd be better prepared to take action in an emergency situation.

Besides, the Army's basic training manual is like the Boy Scout Handbook as written by Jason Bourne. My favorite part, ground fighting Royce Gracie-style. (p.3-181):
071-000-0006 React to Man-to-Man Contact
Conditions:
You are unarmed and facing an unarmed threatening adversary.
Standards:
Dominate the enemy using the basic fight strategy by achieving the clinch, gaining a dominant position and finish the fight.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/57714146/US-Army-Soldier-s-Manual-of-Common-Tasks-Warrior-Skills-Level-1

The Anti-Gnostic said...

"McQueary was a lowly grad student at the time striving to make it in a field with very few jobs."

Then that's just yet more proof college athletics is an insane, socially destructive institution that's so corrupt and dysfunctional it needs to be banned.

Steve Sailer said...

My impression from watching Chicago local news was that good Samaritans tended to be yuppie guys, roughly age 20 to 40.

Captain Jack Aubrey said...

"One word (at least for Americans)"liability." I have to think our litigiousness has filtered down to your would-be Samaritan."

For the most part I don't think so. However, when it relates to children and danger the answer might be yes. Several years ago I recall a case where 2 or 3 very young boys, 3 or 4 years old at most, were, for some reason, trying to cross an extremely busy highway at rush hour. Did no one driving by wonder why such young children were crossing this busy highway alone, or did they not want to be though of as molesters/kidnappers?

Anyway, here's the video from a few months ago of several people in Logan, Utah near the campus of Utah State University helping a motorcyclist trapped beneath a burning car. (Two others have mentioned it, but I'ce done you the favor of actually posting the link in HTML.)

Oh, and then there's this amazingly awesome man, Pierlucio Tinazzi, who by all rights deserves to be remembered.

"prediction: as the number of orientals increases in this country exotic and endangered species laws will be as much enforced as immigration laws."

You say that like it's a bad thing?

Anonymous said...

A good example of bystanders doing nothing is Mike McQueary, currently an assistant coach at Penn State


That's not a good example for several reasons. For thing, he was one "bystander" while the topic is multiple bystanders. Also he knew at least one of the people involved, while the topic here is helping strangers.

But I sense that you want to talk about it anyway.

ben tillman said...

he was told there was a fear that private apologies could be legally construed as admission of guilt for lawsuit purposes. So he sponsored a bill to change the law.

That's a nice story, but is there really anything to worry about? In my experience judges almost always sustain objections to legal opinions offered by non-lawyer witnesses.

Anonymous said...

I had several Asian best friends growing up, and they never held sleepovers or let us enjoy the main living room to watch TV (we always had to hang out in their own room). I hardly remember being offered anything to eat or drink, the exact opposite of how all of my European friends and I would treat a guest.

I had Chinese and Korean friends growing up, and my experience was the exact opposite. When I would play at their house or sleepover, we couldn't go an hour without being interrupted by snacks and food from their doting mothers. At my American friends' houses, their parents were more hands off.

Anonymous said...

Also he knew at least one of the people involved, while the topic here is helping strangers.

Unless he knew about his proclivities beforehand, he might as well have been a stranger. How well do you know somebody if they turn out to have been child rapists?

Anonymous said...

"McQueary was a lowly grad student at the time striving to make it in a field with very few jobs."

Witnessing a rape in progress isn't something where you pause to think about it, drop by the boss's office to chat a bit, go home to dad and ask what he thinks, then decide maybe you might possibly mention it casually, in between talking about the weather and the latest movie releases. It's a rape. It's a violent crime. You dial 9-1-1. The police show up ASAP. Easy peasy.

By the way, I hear Paterno may yet be able to go out on top. He's been offered the head job at NAMBLA.

Anonymous said...

"Several years ago I recall a case where 2 or 3 very young boys, 3 or 4 years old at most, were, for some reason, trying to cross an extremely busy highway at rush hour."

I failed to mention that all the boys were killed...

Anonymous said...

i posted a youtube link to a similar chinese incident - a caucasian boy being beaten in the street while chinese stood and laughed.

I've seen that one. He's not Caucasian. He's Uighur or something.

Anonymous said...

You'd think the least McQueary could have done was clear his throat really loudly or something.

Kudzu Bob said...

Twoof is always saying to posters And what have YOU done with your life that makes you so great? and then as much as sneeringly calls somebody a liar (Steve, in this case, but there are other examples) who tells about when he indeed did do wonderful things. What a loser.

San Franciscan non-monk said...

You are a very good man, Steve.

dnivie said...

People are actually perfectly willing, often even eager, to help. What they're unwilling, or unable to do, is take initiative.

You can have 100 bystanders doing nothing, yet the moment *one* person does something, and specifically requests concrete help, he gets it. (specific as in he says *who* should do *what*)

"somebody please help" doesn't work. "You with the red jacket, call 911!" does work.

eh said...

...the Chinese are doing some soul-searching...

Maybe it'll go so far that they'll stop finning sharks.

Nah.

Actually, it could be they don't have souls to search.

industrial-scale hollow men said...

Thanks to poster of "March of the Porcelain Soldiers" which I had not seen. I tend to be skeptical of applying the military academy model to the rest of society but have no doubt we are deep into a pervasive absence of leadership in the civilian U.S. board room to street level. I'm not old enough to remember Kitty Genovese but I think this is a universal component in the decline of every civilization. After re-unification the W. Germans would complain how, in addition to the Ostalgie of course, the east-siders had been broken of "normal" German social solidarity and civic-mindedness. It didn't take even 2 generations' time for that to happen.

Anonymous said...

Maybe it'll go so far that they'll stop finning sharks.

Whites caring about shark finning and acting as if they had always done so is a relatively recent development. It really started with the decline and contraction of the European empires and rise of modern liberalism. Up until then poaching was commonplace. Bear baiting was popular in England not that long ago.

Truth said...

"Sounds like a Schwarzenegger plot, except for the blonde - it would be a mulatto or a mestizo in a Schwarzenegger flick."

Dude, I HATE when us white guys are trying to watch a movie and the Cultural Marxists shoehorn one of those undeserving Mud-B.....es into the film; like Brigette Nielsen or Kathryn Harrold or Linda Hamilton, or Kelly Preston or Sharon Stone, or Penelope Ann Miller, or Jamie Lee Curtis, or Emma Thompson, or Wendy Crewson...

Anonymous said...

Our view of the Chinese is mirrored by their view of us. They tend to view the West as being amoral and about contracts and excessive legalism, and themselves as being based on a moral order.

Reg Cæsar said...

prediction: as the number of orientals increases in this country exotic and endangered species laws will be as much enforced as immigration laws. --anon.

I once asked a Chinese exchange student what panda tasted like. He just gasped, and said, "Death penalty, to kill one panda!"

Some species are more equal than others. Pandas are even safer than people!

Anonymous said...

Speaking of social cohesion, did Baby Truth censor hisself up there with the "B word" or was that proprietary moderation? I'd assumed that the tone of this Internet site was (refreshingly) profanity-free out of an elaborate concerted effort at self-restraint, possibly even due to a higher calibre of visitor, but Ockham's thingy would lead instead to gatekeeping by the blogger. Either way, please do carry on.

Anonymous said...

The level of "first care from strangers" should be factored into any discussion about a country's health care system.

Anonymous said...

"On the other hand, I'm not sure if people in general are that quick to help out in emergencies, especially if they can tell themselves that somebody else will handle it. "

The part of Western Ave Steve describes is in da hood. It's the kind of place you can see a baby standing out on a street corner alone at 1am (Dave Chapelle reference). If you get hit by a car in a black neighborhood it is likely that your wallet will be taken as you like unconscious, and if you are white, somebody will urinate on you for fun.

As for Steve's second example, at the bridge, well, he's a quick thinking guy. There is a very good chance in a crowd of 1000 Chicagoans that Steve is the smartest person (he's a National Merit Scholar from pre-Mexican CA, right?). He's also very tall so others would definitely notice him taking action -- he probably looked like he knew what he was doing, so folks stepped aside. In both Steve's examples the time frame is 10s of seconds, not tens of minutes, as was the case in recent events in China where people just ignored their fellow citizens in extremis.

Anonymous said...

"On the other hand, I'm not sure if people in general are that quick to help out in emergencies, especially if they can tell themselves that somebody else will handle it. "

The part of Western Ave Steve describes is in da hood. It's the kind of place you can see a baby standing out on a street corner alone at 1am (Dave Chapelle reference). If you get hit by a car in a black neighborhood it is likely that your wallet will be taken as you like unconscious, and if you are white, somebody will urinate on you for fun.

As for Steve's second example, at the bridge, well, he's a quick thinking guy. There is a very good chance in a crowd of 1000 Chicagoans that Steve is the smartest person (he's a National Merit Scholar from pre-Mexican CA, right?). He's also very tall so others would definitely notice him taking action -- he probably looked like he knew what he was doing, so folks stepped aside. In both Steve's examples the time frame is 10s of seconds, not tens of minutes, as was the case in recent events in China where people just ignored their fellow citizens in extremis.

Charlotte said...

"I've heard far worse stories about the cheapness of and indifference to human life from India. From people that have been to both, China sounds far more civilized than India."

Not according to the 23 yr old Sikh guy, 2 yrs in the US, who sold me my computer. When he was in China & Korea he was totally freaked out by the dog-meat trade, the way the dogs were slowly beaten to death, their howls of agony meant to make their meat more powerful and more able to help with any "sexual" problems. Sometimes these monsters would take fresh dog flesh and let the dogs waiting to be beaten and eaten smell the meat. The dogs' fear and despair made for even more powerful juju.
Now there's a scenario where they'd have to hold me back from helping the animals.
The Sikh guy said he got to hate the Koreans with a passion because of this, which suprised me a little. He's a sweet person but I didn't think Indians were well known for their love of dogs. To him it was a matter of basic humanity. He thought the relationship between dogs & people was too emotional to eat them anyway, but it was more how they were killed that was loathsome.
Many, probably most, Koreans & Chinese would never participate in this stuff and are working against it, but it is an old custom, and took outside intervention--someone giving directions: stop this cruelty, this is insane, inhumane. If your "sexual problems" require that kind of fix, it's best for all concerned that you die out.
The Sikh guy was also in Singapore and Malaysia.
Sometimes I think whole populations remain in a sort of trance until someone with perspective snaps their fingers and says, "wake up, it's a nightmare." The cannibals of Papua New Guinea were only too happy to stop their raids that killed so many of them. They just could never see a way out, till western laws said, "stop that."

So I can see how people need direction and relatively few are primed to give them. Naturally such an individual would have the courage of his convictions.

Anonymous said...

"McQueary was a lowly grad student at the time striving to make it itn a field with very few jobs."

Then that's just yet more proof college athletics is an insane, socially destructive institution that's so corrupt and dysfunctional it needs to be banned.

at this point the saddest thing is, that i can find it believable that alumni and penn state fans (or any intense college football fans) would look the other way or let the guy off the hook if they had a winning program. (numerous cases of high school (usually black) atheletes sexually assaulting or harassing white cheerleaders is an example)

I am a Cult, not a Cause. said...

In America, when a black guy attacks a white person, most white people stand around and do nothing. They know that one-on-one, the black guy will kick his ass. And if whites all ganged up on the black guy, it would be 'racist'.

PSU riots for pedophilia enablers said...

McQueary was a lowly grad student at the time striving to make it in a field with very few jobs. Grad students in situations like that are like court jesters to kings - one impulsive act could've destroy his career.

Do you really think breaking up a rape in progress or going to security, the cops, etc. really would've destroyed him?


Of course. This especially if a nobody like McQueary snitched on a titan like Sandusky and his good friend JoPa. These guys would use their powerful networks boot him out of the PSU program, defame him and exile him permanently from any decent coaching career.

Academic grad student advisors have incredible power over their students. They can freely steal credit, abuse and destroy the reputations and budding careers of their advisees.

The situation can only be worse in for football coaches where there is no quantitative measure like in hard sciences, the job market is tiny relative to the applicants and it largely runs on old boy, alumni and loyality networks.

Undying loyalty is probably the #1 or #2 quality a big time football coach must have given all the criminal activities in big name sports: player crimes (rapes, assaults, drugs, etc), recuriting violations, academic cheating, pay-to-play scandals, steroids, etc. To keep things moving along smoothly, everyone in the organization must be 110% loyal and fall in line or the whole things falls apart. Even with Sandusky and JoPa making his life hell, no one would ever take a risk hiring a potential traitor like MacQueary if he ratted out PSU program.

DISCLAIMER: This is not to justify MacQueary's actions, only to explain them to the ready critics who don't seem to fully appreciate the power dynamic of peon grad student snitching on coaching legends.

Given the fact that most career climing men are risk-adverse, go-along-to-get-along types I suspect most would act as MacQueary did or worse.

Anonymous said...

Steve,

I wonder if there is a culture among the most responsible adult male members of urban black communities of being unusually willing to help strangers in public places whom they perceive to be in danger. Over the past year two strangers intervened to save members of my family from danger. On both occasions, the strangers were large black men apparently in their 40s, the potential victims were my twin two-year-olds, and the danger was me.

On the first occasion, I was pushing a stroller with my twins across the top of a snow bank which rose about three feet above the sidewalk next to a busy stretch of road, and a large new SUV screeched to a halt in front of me, and a well-dressed man who spoke like Wesley Snipes jumped out (leaving a large family inside the vehicle) and accosted me, saying This is child abuse." He insisted that he drive with his hazards on in front of me and that I walk in the road rather on the snow bank. In my view, the good Samaritan's solution was marginally more dangerous, but certainly easier for me.

On the second occasions, I was stopped at the door by a black ticket taker when I was taking my children to see an art exhibition at a large museum. The ticket taker saw that I was holding a (silk) rope of which either end was tied around my boys' wrists. When he said "Untie them!" I responded with an attempt at humor to explain the logic of the rope, saying "Without this rope, they will destroy the museum. They are animals!" This enraged the ticket taker, who said in tones reminiscent of one of the Amistad protagonist ("Give us free!"), "They are not animals! You cannot go in until you free them."

Although my somewhat peculiar behavior was not a danger to my twins in either of the situations I have described, the good Samaritans recognized my public presentation as odd and therefore possibly dangerous. Perhaps most responsible adult black men live or have lived in dangerous areas in which they have seen an unusually large number of tragic consequences of lack of intervention by the public. This would explain a culture in which responsible men are extra-willing to jump in and save the day.

-Morgan C

Anonymous said...

Hunting Turkey

Anonymous said...

For all the trashing of Mexicans and their culture that goes on here, it should be noted that at least in California, Mexican guys tend to be really good about being good Samaritans. A lot of the really nasty car fires here seem to end with Mexican guys in trucks helping pull people out of the flames.

Anonymous said...

How about those big heart All America Penn state big a-holes, who didn't report the raping of 10 years old boy by a well known assistant coach for about 10 years. Good Samaritan indeed. LOL

Evil Sandmich said...

A few months ago I was walking across the parking lot of a small local mall when an older woman about 50' behind me had collapsed. I figured I could help, but she was already beset by about a half dozen people who seemed to materialize out of thin air, two of whom were nurses, ah well...

Anonymous said...

Regarding the Saundusky Scandal:

At the moment, is there any compelling reason for people not familiar with the details of the case (i.e. all of us commentators) to be certain that a crime was actually committed?

TTBOMK, everyone charged - whether with lying to a grand jury or molesting a boy - has proclaimed their innocence, there have been no convictions, and those being crucified most in the court of public opinion haven't even been charged with anything.

Shouldn't we wait before jumping to condemnations?

Marc B said...

I've been involved helping out in a several similar incidents and I am reminded of an old saying "95% of the population is waiting for the %5 to tell them what to do next". Most people expect somebody else to come to the assistance of somebody in peril or at least take the lead.

I forgot the term I from high school psychology class to describe this phenomenon, but there is a term describing that the larger the mass of people, the more likely for each person to expect somebody else to come to another person's rescue.

Anonymous said...

How about those big heart All America Penn state big a-holes

Apparently it wasn't known about just at Penn State:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023

"It actually gets worse. Madden went on to say "When Sandusky quit, everybody knew; not just at Penn State. It was a very poorly kept secret around college football, in general. That is why he never coached in college football again and retired at the relatively young age of 55, young for a coach." Madden also called the Second Mile Foundation "the perfect cover" for Sandusky's scheme."

Steve Sailer said...

If you can't get your car started in Chicago, the most likely passerby to offer to help will be a black man 30-60, in my experience.

Anonymous said...

"If you can't get your car started in Chicago, the most likely passerby to offer to help will be a black man 30-60, in my experience."

I've noticed this too, but they seem to want a favor afterward, especially if you live around the same block.

Anonymous said...

"In America, when a black guy attacks a white person, most white people stand around and do nothing. They know that one-on-one, the black guy will kick his ass. And if whites all ganged up on the black guy, it would be 'racist'."

No it wouldn't. And the black guy wouldn't necessarily kick the white guys ass. Not even if he was 30 years younger (I'd insert a link to video of the Oakland bus fight between Epic Beard Man and young black punk, but YouTube requires that you be signed in to watch it.)

Anonymous said...

Sometimes I think whole populations remain in a sort of trance until someone with perspective snaps their fingers and says, "wake up, it's a nightmare." The cannibals of Papua New Guinea were only too happy to stop their raids that killed so many of them. They just could never see a way out, till western laws said, "stop that."

This is the basic Judeo-Christian narrative: the light unto nations, the Jews ("salvation is from the Jews") and then Christ, were necessary to show the light and civilization to the Europeans who were until then "barbarians". It now gets extended beyond Europeans to the whole world and it's about "human rights" now, not Christianity proper.

I am a Cult, not a Cause. said...

I think maybe the problem with China is due to:

1. Familism. With morality and feeling centered around community/friends/close associates, Chinese have less of a civic sense when it comes to strangers.
Chinese guy at carryout told me something like, 'Chinese people no care about stranger, but if you become friend, they treat you special, almost like family.'
So, Chinese care A LOT about near/dear ones but NIL about people outside the circle.
In the West, bonds within family is weaker but there is more civic feeling for strangers.

2. Not-make-a-stir-ism. Chinese society, like rest of Asia, favors people who conform and not make a big show of their individuality. So, Chinese might consider 'heroism' kinda show-offy and calling attention to one's superior virtue. So, instead of making a scene by acting the GOOD GUY, most Chinese just walk by as if nothing is wrong.

3. Basic-ism. China is still poor and even most middle class people are just making it and have memories of horrible poverty and tragedy. And so, Chinese are probably raised with the notion/attitude that one's sympathies must not be expended on others.

4. You-not-save-me-either-ism. It could be that the Chinese figure most people won't help them when they're down, so why should they help others when they are down? So, when Chinese see accident victims, they see selfish people who wouldn't help them if they were in trouble.

5. No-rewardism. If you help someone who's hurt, it could be very time-consuming, especially if ambulance doesn't arrive quickly. You could end up arriving at work late or home late. If you tell your boss that you did something good, he may not praise you but fire you. Or you might end up going home late at night since commute in China is awful as it is.
It's also too much trouble. When I was young, I brought a homeless dog home,and but my mom tossed it out of the house. Not that she didn't have a heart but she thoght it be too much trouble--and might even encourage me to bring home more stray animals. I always felt sorry for that dog.

I am a Cult, not a Cause. said...

Anyway, a scene in GOODFELLAS comes to mind. Young Henry sees some guy bleeding from a knife-wound and tries to help him. His boss gets very upset and says 'I gotta toughen this kid up'. As far as the boss is concerned, Henry got involved in something that wasn't his business. Also, Henry brought attention to his boss's store/outfit by dragging the victim by the door. And he wasted a bunch of aprons to soak up the blood. And in GODFATHER II's ending, Sonny says only suckers fight for their country and die for strangers, a sentiment he got from his pa, Vito. It's kinda funny though. We do see Vito being generous to other people, so why such coldness to the nation? But the 'other people' tend to be fellow Sicilian-Americans, and besides, he expects a favor in return sometime in the future. It's not just do-goodery but honor/politics among men of shared culture.
In this sense, maybe Chinese are more like Latins than Anglo-Germans. Yet, in their work ethic, Chinese are more like Anglo-Germans than Latins. Interesting people. Maybe they're like Anglo-Latins.

One of the most chilling scenes in movies for me as a kid was in ENTER THE DRAGON where Bruce Lee's sister(Angela Mao)is running from a bunch of rapist-thugs; she taps on the door of an old woman to seek refuge, but the old woman doesn't lift a finger; worse, there isn't even the slightest sign of sympathy on her face. But maybe in a poor brutal society where power is held by organized gangs and crooks(and rule of law is weak), people come to think sympathy-for-stranger = fool's errand and danger for me as well.
In lots of Asian kung fu movies, the themes are less about abstract justice than personal revenge. It's more about honor than morality. Avenging the death of master, father, mother, sister, friend or some such. BETTER TOMORROW boils down to brotherhood and friendship. So, the emotions center around close bonds, not some general sense of doing the right thing for society as a whole.
Also, Asian culture's stress on hierachrism means one's main emotions must be ordered according to certain social obligations. The inferior must be devoted to parent, teacher, master, boss, etc. Or, the superior must feel obligated to help out child, student, loyal servant, etc.
Emotions are defined and invested so hierarchically and close-relationally that Asians might not have as good a sense of how to feel about people who don't fit into this hierarchy. A stranger is just a stranger; since his status vis-a-vis other strangers is not known and since Asian emotions are attached to close-relations-within-an-hierarchy, it could be Asian morality about society as a whole is confused rather than downright immoral.

Anonymous said...

The big question now. Will Germany come to the rescue of PIIGS or see them as junkies who messed up their nations than as victims deserving of help?

Anonymous said...

I wonder if the Kitty Genovese was truly distorted. I grew up hearing references to the case, but it wasn't until I was much older did I learn that Genovese was a white woman who rapist attacker/murderer was a black man. I suspect there might be some PC revisionism going on here. I mean, didn't black men automatically get lynched for even looking cross-eyed at a white woman back then? The Genovese has the wrong colored victim and attacker to the be the poster case for crowd in difference, especially if it contradicts the way the racial left wants to teach history. Yes, it was not the deep south, but it was the early 60s and isn't the northern corollary to the southern redneck the racist italian guido?

I am a Cult, not a Cause. said...

"In America, when a black guy attacks a white person, most white people stand around and do nothing. They know that one-on-one, the black guy will kick his ass. And if whites all ganged up on the black guy, it would be 'racist'."

"No it wouldn't. And the black guy wouldn't necessarily kick the white guys ass. Not even if he was 30 years younger (I'd insert a link to video of the Oakland bus fight between Epic Beard Man and young black punk, but YouTube requires that you be signed in to watch it.)"

In my experience in the city, almost no one intervenes when black thugs attacks other people. One time, I saw this big negro punching the daylights of a short mexican and stealing his cell phone, but no one did anything. It was plain fear.

In other cases, decent people don't care less out of fear than out of yojimbo-like-attitude that it's best if punks-knock-off-other-punks. Once, some gangbanger got smashed in the head with a baseball bat, but the attitude of most good people in the neighborhood was, 'oh good, one less punk in the street'. Personally, I also liked it when gangbangers got killed by other gangbangers. I just hated them.

PS. Epic Beard Man didn't beat up a young punk but a small out-of-shape negro in his late 40s or early 50s.

Anonymous said...

Sometimes I think whole populations remain in a sort of trance until someone with perspective snaps their fingers and says, "wake up, it's a nightmare." The cannibals of Papua New Guinea were only too happy to stop their raids that killed so many of them. They just could never see a way out, till western laws said, "stop that."

This is basically what Islamic fundamentalists think of the decadent West today. They think the West today is immoral, amoral, inhumane, cruel, insane, etc., and that Islamic law shows the "way out".

I am a Cult, not a Cause. said...

One thing for sure, rich whites don't give a shit about working class and poor whites whose well-being is jeopardized by black crime, illegal immigration, and loss of good jobs. And if it happens to be white South Africans who are being raped, beaten, or murdered in huge numbers, the Western World looks the other way and pretends the bloodbath isn't even happening.
One thing for sure, Chinese care more for their own kind than white people do.

Anonymous said...

Neoliberals and neocons have greatly maligned "cultural relativism" in their quest for globalist, cosmopolitan imperialism at home and abroad. In this way they're no different from pre-modern theocracies and their moral imperialism. But it's a valid concept if you take sociobiology seriously and if you're opposed to multiculturalism. It doesn't get accepted easily because there is always great competition among people for moral territory. The benefits to holding positions of moral authority and controlling moral indoctrination over people are so great that people will always be tempted away from cultural relativism.

Cult, -Cause. said...

"One thing for sure, Chinese care more for their own kind than white people do."

It seems one reason for this is there's no warm glow around the idea of whites helping fellow whites. Such sentiment could at best be tolerated as 'reactionary' and at worst be condemned as 'racist'.
So, if a rich white guy says at a cocktail party that he founded or donated to an organization helping poor whites or saving white victims in South Africa, others would move away from him--and he may never be invited to the cocktail party again. White sympathy for other white is simply not allowed. But if a white guy says he donated money to help Africans or black students, he would be praised as a wonderful wonderful man. It's gotten so that even conservatives care more about helping a 300 lb black highschool football player(BLINDE SIDE)than helping poor white kids beaten up and bullied by black thugs in integrated schools.

Since most rich people are white and since such people, in their megalomania, tend to project their own reality onto the entire world, they seem to think 'we whites are powerful, rich, and privileged, and so it makes no sense for whites to help other whites'. But of course, most whites are not stinking rich, many are merely in the middle bracket, and many are on the poor-side. But even so, rich whites may feel that poor whites deserve far less sympathy since (1) whites have enjoyed group power and privilege over other groups for a long time (2) white failure must be well-deserved since our society still favors whites over non-whites(or so says pc liberalism though, in fact, poor whites are the biggest victims of affirmative action),i.e. whites fail due to genuine laziness or dumbness than social oppresion of conscious or subconscious 'racism'.

Also, given that many of the top white elites are Jewish and most rich Jews (1) disdain the white mob as pitchfork wielding latent antisemites and (2) fear nothing more than unity among white gentiles(rich-middle-poor whites forming into one political identity bloc), it's unlikely that sympathy for poor whites is gonna be a favorable issue in rich society. (And conservative emphasis on hierarchy and success tends to sneer at all poor people as loser-saps. Most cons care more about millionaire Herman Cain than some white guy who lost his factory job.)
Besides, if we start talking about poor-white-victims, victimhood will no longer be the sole prize of Jews, blacks, and other 'people of color'. And given that many whites have been victimized by Jewish communists, black thugs, neocon warmongers, Wall Street financiers, and the like, the issue of 'white victimhood' might trigger a real revolution in current politics that favors the Right.

eh said...

...did I learn that Genovese was a white woman who rapist attacker/murderer was a black man.

Interesting exercise for you: try helping others learn that simple fact by placing it in the Wikipedia article about her/her murder. Let us know how long it stays there.

Anonymous said...

In America, when a black guy attacks a white person, most white people stand around and do nothing. They know that one-on-one, the black guy will kick his ass


A lot of white guys on HBD blogs have severe psychological problems, including but not limited to a deep inferiority complex.

Anonymous said...

Interesting exercise for you: try helping others learn that simple fact by placing it in the Wikipedia article about her/her murder. Let us know how long it stays there. I believe that's incident has been 'law and ordered' several times when depicted in the media- it's always a white guy.

Anonymous said...

This first aid principle - help first ask questions later - is a slippery slope. What next, Steve: réaliste de race sans frontières?

Remember Camp of the Saints. 'Who?' always matters. Sometimes it is necessary to harden your heart. Sometimes it is necessary to growl...

Truth said...

"Twoof is always saying to posters And what have YOU done with your life that makes you so great? and then as much as sneeringly calls somebody a liar..."

I didn't call Sailer a liar, I just feel that it would be a tragedy if he injured is writing hand patting himself on the back.

ironrailsironweights said...

i posted a youtube link to a similar chinese incident - a caucasian boy being beaten in the street while chinese stood and laughed.

I've seen that one. He's not Caucasian. He's Uighur or something.

That pretty well explains why the people watched and laughed.

Peter

Truth said...

"A lot of white guys on HBD blogs have severe psychological problems, including but not limited to a deep inferiority complex."

I know one guy That recently developed one.

Truth said...

"I'd assumed that the tone of this Internet site was (refreshingly) profanity-free out of an elaborate concerted effort at self-restraint, possibly even due to a higher calibre of visitor,.. Either way, please do carry on."

Yeah, I agree, the relative lack of profanity is a good thing. Now if we could only do something about all of the emasculated whiners -- Oh wait bro, sorry my bad. No offense.

Anonymous said...

People in fires don't realy do anything either. I saw a show on fire tragedies and it turns out that people don't stampede to the door when they are alerted of a fire. They just mill about until the fire spreads quickly THEN they realize that they should get out but it's too late.

I read a story about a 9 year being killed by a rock slide in Lassen Volcanic Park. It turns out people just stood around on the trail until the father threw someone a phone and told them to call 911. Even the ranger told the parents he couldn't do anything when he arrived because he wasn't trained. If someone has internal injuries, there isn't much anyone, including paramedics, can do, except transport them to the hospital.

Svigor said...

Dude, I HATE when us white guys are trying to watch a movie and the Cultural Marxists shoehorn one of those undeserving Mud-B.....es into the film; like Brigette Nielsen or Kathryn Harrold or Linda Hamilton, or Kelly Preston or Sharon Stone, or Penelope Ann Miller, or Jamie Lee Curtis, or Emma Thompson, or Wendy Crewson...

Yeah, I don't recall 'negger ever having a lead romantic interest like Nielsen (yuck, btw) or Hamilton; can't recall him even being in a movie with Thompson; never heard of Crewson; when he did have a lead romantic interest in the same racial ballpark as himself, like Stone, he shot her in the face because she was a villain (sounds like the ideal Hollywood would promote if it could) standing in the way of the mestizo; when he had a romantic interest like Preston she was in the movie maybe five minutes, or his glory days were already behind him, like with Miller. You got me on Curtis though...since I forgot to say "mulatto, mestizo, or half-Jew." My bad.

Svigor said...

Scwharzenegger Action movies where he had a love interest:
Conan the Barbarian: you got me there, they found an ugly blonde of unknown ancestry for this one.
Red Sonja: good call, I forgot this cheese-fest, a Nielsen vehicle driven by Schwarzenegger's co-star role, if you can believe that math. Incidentally, Red Sonja's concept includes an explicit injunction against her ever being anyone's love interest. So, that's two ugly blonde chicks.
Commando: mulatta
The Running man: mestiza
Total Recall: mestiza
True Lies: half-Jew
Eraser: mulatta
Batman and Robin: you got me here; 'Negger plays a raving psychopath villain with an Aryan ice-block (literally; the other Hollywood model?) girlfriend.

Svigor said...

But don't let defeat get you down - this is where you change tactics and start talking about how it's all just a reflection of 'Negger's tastes in real life.

Svigor said...

I hardly remember being offered anything to eat or drink, the exact opposite of how all of my European friends and I would treat a guest.

My experiences are similar.

Anonymous said...

agnostic tries to fit everything into a lame "pastoralist/farmer" heuristic that isn't very valid, and he tries to overcompensate so that he appears as impartial as possible.

If anything, the Chinese and other orientals are too overbearing as hosts and don't stop trying to feed you and give you crap.

Truth said...

Well if you keep calling Schwarzey's blonde chicks "ugly" why wouldn't the cast him with another from time to time?

Truth said...

Face the facts, Sviggey, you're just not attracted to white women.

I would have done Brigitte Neilsen or Sandahl Bergman in a New York Minute 20 years ago.

Anonymous said...

Epic Beard Man didn't beat up a young punk but a small out-of-shape negro in his late 40s or early 50s.

I don't think the black was anywhere near late 40s-50s. More like early 30s.

Kudzu Bob said...

I didn't call Sailer a liar, I just feel that it would be a tragedy if he injured is writing hand patting himself on the back.

Whatever. If the people here don't talk about the worthy things that they do, you accuse them of having done noting with their lives. And if they do, you call them liars or accuse them of self-congratulation.

Anonymous said...

"Epic Beard Man didn't beat up a young punk but a small out-of-shape negro in his late 40s or early 50s."

No way the black guy was in his 40s. He was early 30s, at most.

In my experience a fairly large portion of intimidation is by people convinced their targets will back down out of fear. Quite often the inimidator isn't even stronger than his target - he uses the perception that he may be unhinged to scare someone off, or the stereotype that members of some groups are stronger than others: black > white, white > asian, young > old. When the member of the perceived weaker group doesn't back down he/she often finds the intimidator is really just a coward.

Svigor said...

Whatever. If the people here don't talk about the worthy things that they do, you accuse them of having done noting with their lives. And if they do, you call them liars or accuse them of self-congratulation.

I never noticed that little catch-22, even though it's true and been staring me in the face for years.

Face the facts, Sviggey, you're just not attracted to white women.

I would have done Brigitte Neilsen or Sandahl Bergman in a New York Minute 20 years ago.


See what I mean about you and the medicine wheel thing? The mouse? Everything goes back to the personal with you.

Movie ugly, genius. Female romantic lead ugly. Like we call some college/pro players in speed positions "slow"?

If we go by who you'd roll in the hay with, all we have left is beautiful, beautifuler, and beautifulest.

Truth said...

"Whatever. If the people here don't talk about the worthy things that they do, you accuse them of having done noting with their lives"

Bobby, I think that you misunderstand; I don't criticize anyone for being unaccomplished, I criticize unaccomplished people who spend their lives criticizing ACCOMPLISHED PEOPLE for being unaccomplished (read it again, it makes sense.)

And Steve-O's my boy I'm just having a spot of fun with him, Old Bean.

"See what I mean about you and the medicine wheel thing? The mouse? Everything goes back to the personal with you."

Of course it goes back to the personal, that is, by complete coincidence, the subject I know the most about.

Truth said...

"Movie ugly, genius. Female romantic lead ugly. Like we call some college/pro players in speed positions "slow"?"

Dude, I totally get it, you'd rather dong Rae Dawn Chong and Vanessa Williams than two 6'0 plus Nordic specemins like (note the names) Stendahl and Nielsen...

Truth be told, so would I, but hey, I'm not as sexy as you are with flecks of warm magnificent amber peaking through my well-coifed beard, so I take what I can get.

Truth said...

Just to set the record straight, Amberlamps was a 50 year old gay college professor who thought that it would be fun to pretend to play gangster.

Kudzu Bob said...

Bobby, I think that you misunderstand; I don't criticize anyone for being unaccomplished, I criticize unaccomplished people who spend their lives criticizing ACCOMPLISHED PEOPLE for being unaccomplished (read it again, it makes sense.)

I did read it again, and it did make sense, except for the punctuation (no surprise there, alas) and the part about criticizing what you describe as "unaccomplished people," by which you mean the lawyers, physicists, geneticists, anthropologists, screenwriters, and so on who post on this blog. Why, I have it on good authority that you yourself are devising an automobile powered by a Supersoaker.

Anonymous said...

"Just to set the record straight, Amberlamps was a 50 year old gay college professor who thought that it would be fun to pretend to play gangster."

Proof yet again, Truth, that you don't know shit. Amber Lamps is the babe sitting next to Black Punk (Michael) who appears completely oblivious to what's happening around her.

Truth = Alex Pareene? said...

Somebody mentioned the John Woo film "A Better Tomorrow I-III" So OT does anybody remember that MTV Films release "Better Luck Tomorrow?" ("Justin Lin's breakout film challenges the societal expectations of Asian American youths") I wanted to see this but it's not on Netflix, shockingly enough. I've always wondered what kind of society it takes to create that Vancouver hockey stick guy.

wow said...

I hadn't seen the beard-man-fight video until now (weird how punch-drunk muttering passenger angrily calls him N word at the end). Is Oakland really *still* that much of a cesspool? None of that dot com slush trickled down?

Lise said...

@Arkanabar
Exactly right, I remember in my First Aid training many years ago that they instructed us to pick an individual and look them in the eyes or point and instruct "You - call 911." Otherwise, everyone thinks someone else is doing it.

@agnostic
While I've had different anecdotal experiences with my Chinese neighbors growing up - they were incredibly kind, warm and freindly, the ghosti relationship runs throughout Indo-European culture(including Hindi speakers.) It may not be unique to Indo-Europeans but non the less a strong cultural trait.

Harry Baldwin said...

Shawn said...Diffusion of responsibility has been studied quite a bit. You have probably heard about Kitty Genovese.

Read the chapter on the Kitty Genovese case in "Superfreakonomics." The facts of that case are completely different from the way it has been mythologized. It absolutely was not a case of a woman being killed on the sidewalk while 38 people watched out of their windows.

Also, in follow-up interviews with the principals in the Epic Beard Man video, the black man who started the fight claimed to be in his fifties. I wouldn't have guessed it, but why would he lie?

Truth said...

"and the part about criticizing what you describe as "unaccomplished people," by which you mean the lawyers, physicists, geneticists, anthropologists, screenwriters..."

You forgot "cartoonists" this time!

"Proof yet again, Truth, that you don't know shit. Amber Lamps is the babe sitting next to Black Punk (Michael) who appears completely oblivious to what's happening around her."

Yeah that's it, the chick's name was Amber Lamps. I get it bro.

ben tillman said...

Proof yet again, Truth, that you don't know shit. Amber Lamps is the babe sitting next to Black Punk (Michael) who appears completely oblivious to what's happening around her.

No. Truth was right.

rec1man said...

@Charlotte

In Hindu-Sikh society, a dog eater is considered the lowest form of untouchable

And many of the upper caste brahmin and merchants and jains are vegetarian

from wiki - Dogs also held the cultural significance of 'dog eaters' (Sanskrit: candala) those who existed beyond the confines of Varnashrama Dharma. ( Candala is untouchable )

Skeptical Economist said...

At least in Texas, lots of folks try to help. I have run to the seen of several accidents over the last few years. In each case, I was perhaps the 12th person on the scene.

Perhaps Texas are unusually publicly spirited. On a couple of occasions I have called 9-11. The usual answer is "your number 7 - click".

Anonymous said...

Looks like Chechnya.

Looks like Afghan war

Looks like sure death

Charlotte said...

"@Charlotte

In Hindu-Sikh society, a dog eater is considered the lowest form of untouchable

And many of the upper caste brahmin and merchants and jains are vegetarian

from wiki - Dogs also held the cultural significance of 'dog eaters' (Sanskrit: candala) those who existed beyond the confines of Varnashrama Dharma. ( Candala is untouchable )"

People throughout India, the mid-east & Africa have traditionally had an aversion to dogs, and dogs may be grateful for that. But many modern-style folk from th areas do like dogs.

Dog-as-unclean may have influenced my pal, but it was the cruelty towards the dogs that made him more disgusted, not eating the meat. He was sincerely spiritual--warned me that not all Sikhs are good people despite the loveley teachings.
But that's parr for the course considering any religion.