October 22, 2011

Thank God McCain lost

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and other "dictators" should feel nervous after the death of Libya's Muammar Qaddafi, U.S. Senator John McCain said. 
"I think dictators all over the world, including Bashar al-Assad, maybe even Mr. Putin, maybe some Chinese, maybe all of them, may be a little bit more nervous," McCain said in an interview with the British Broadcasting Corp. late yesterday. "It's the spring, not just the Arab spring."

Maybe McCain really believes that Gadafi's demise was the result of the spontaneous uprising of democracy-loving Libyan citizens and that, in the big picture of things, the NATO death-from-above airstrike that blasted his escape convoy didn't have anything to do with Kaffaffee's lynching a few hours later. But Vladimir Putin didn't get where he is by being that deluded.

Putin is a bad man. I don't like him. But, when senior American politicians start issuing vague threats against Putin's life, allow me to point out pictorially a difference between Qazzafi and Putin. Above you see the kind of hardware that the Colonel had going for him: a statue of a giant fist crushing an American fighter-bomber. Below is a picture of the kind of hardware Putin has going for him:

Putin has about a dozen active boomers: nuclear powered submarines carrying nuclear-armed intercontinental ballistic missiles. (Most of them not Hunt for Red October-style Typhoon Class leviathans, but still ...) As a general rule of diplomacy, it's a good idea to restrict making personal death threats to only those national leaders without boomers.

88 comments:

Anonymous said...

McCain is just trying to impress neocons.

In some ways, McCain is less dangerous because of his big mouth. Sonny was less dangerous than Michael in the GODFATHER.

Also, this tough talk stuff is something he got from the Cold War, especially from Reagan with 'evil empire' and aggressive nuclear buildup which freaked out a lot of peole, not least the Soviets.

Assistant Village Idiot said...

It is my contention that the things that Bush got wrong started with his trusting Putin in the summer of 2001. Pooty-poot and all that. He believed, against all evidence, that Putin wanted to help contain dangerous ME regimes and would help us out with that. When the time came for us to find Iraqi WMD, ex-KGB agents had already helped them hide them the December before.

Oh, gee, wow. With the Russians smiling and actively undermining us, invading Iraq suddenly got four times more complicated, but hey, let's do it anyway!

Anonymous said...

Obama Presidency = air strikes, cruise missiles, drones, special forces

Bush/McCain Presidency = several hundred thousand ground troops, 'surges,' threatening other superpowers with no manpower or money to back it up.

Btw, a third poll just released shows Romney trailing Cain by ten percentage points. It echoes the two other polls from South Carolina and Florida showing Romney trailing Cain in those two states.

It might be a painful choice for many Southern Evangelical Christians. Do you vote for the cult Mormon guy or the black man?

We live in interesting times.

Anonymous said...

It seems to have vanished down the memory hole, but not too long ago McCain (and the American government in general) was all buddy-buddy with Qaddafi.

EYE OF HORUS said...

Guys like John McCain are the reason people think Republicans and Conservatives are Stupid, but in reality he's really a Neo-Con RINO. The myriad idiotic statements McCain issued during the campaign, including, but not limited to the one where he said the current POTUS was not an extremist left-wing radical is the reason he LOST the Election in 2008.
Conservative and Republican Voters stayed home in droves primarily because McCain was the Candidate...

Anonymous said...

Does McCain see Occupy Wall Street as people rising up against tyranny?

It's politically stupid what he siad, but I do think Russian and Chinese leadership are deeply shaken by recent events. Putin had the oil economy going for him, but if the economy slides, there could be major civil unrest in Russia.
Communist party in China has kept order with economic growth, but any dramatic turn around--orchestrated by new American trade policy--can lead to something far more grave than Tianenmen incident.

If the Chinese communist party is smart, it would create its own version of 'democracy' by splitting the communist party in two: Patriot Party vs Reform Party which would essentially be communist party A and communist party B. LDP ran Japan for over 50 yrs and still pretty much governs it from behind the scenes. One can have 'democracy' and essentially one party rule if one plays the cards right.

Anonymous said...

What McCain doesn't understand is the poor illegal Latina with 7 children is a bigger problem for the US than Putin with 7 nuclear subs.

Anonymous said...

Below is a picture of the kind of hardware Putin has going for him:

That's the thing, Russia's nuclear weapons are the only thing that would repel a US invasion.

In conventional warfare, the US would destroy Russia (including all its subs, aircraft and infantry divisions) in about 48 hours.

Once a nation has nuclear capability, it's completely untouchable. North Korea can actually shell South Korean territory and only receives 'strongly worded' condemnations in response. Gaddafi was a fool to give up his program.

It's also why Israel will soon act on Iran, whatever the USG's opinion on the matter is.

Speaking of Israel and thinking of the recent prisoner exchange, why don't the Israelis just remove all Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank and dump them on the territory of a US ally like Jordan? It would probably be brutal, messy work, but after doing that, expelling their Arab citizens and building some walls, they won't have to worry about Muslims again. Seems like no-brainer. And they wouldn't have to worry about PR, everyone hates Israel anyway.

Anonymous said...

If only McCain had been as tough against Obama as against Putin. What the hell is he doing? Running for president of Russia?

Anonymous said...

When the time came for us to find Iraqi WMD, ex-KGB agents had already helped them hide them the December before.

Don't be an idiot.

Anonymous said...

The myriad idiotic statements McCain issued during the campaign, including, but not limited to the one where he said the current POTUS was not an extremist left-wing radical

Do you believe that POTUS is an 'extreme left-wing radical?'

NLF or Neanderthal Liberation Front said...

"Putin is a bad man. I don't like him."

Putin is a bad man. But I like him. The thing is he knows he has to be a bad man. Russia has been a gangster paradise since the day he was born: communist gangsters, oligarchs, military thugs, intelligence goons(of which he became one), devious foreign elements with their 'expertise' and 'advice'.
You can't be a nice dog among wolves. You have be the alpha wolf.

Anonymous said...

"It might be a painful choice for many Southern Evangelical Christians. Do you vote for the cult Mormon guy or the black man?"

Do even Mormons believe in Romney? Maybe they see his Mormonism as an act too.

Anonymous said...

It's possible McCain would not be saying stuff like this as president. Both Reagan and Clinton spoke harshly of China as candidates but toned down their rhetoric as presidents. Maybe McCain got beat so bad in 2008 that he needs to talk big and tough to maintain a sense of importance and righteousness.

Never trust politicians. Bush spoke of a humble foreign policy but then gave us Iraq War and Save Africa campaign.
Obama said he would be fair with the Muslim world but he hasn't done diddly squat for Palestinians and kowtows to AIPAC. He said he would do something about Wall Street crooks but has been their puppet.

Talk is cheap.

Skeptical Economist said...

I am not exactly in love with Obama or his foreign policy... However

"Thank God McCain lost"

is true. Who knows how wars we would be involved in at this point with McCain in office.

I *hope* the Republican party has sobered up at this point. Clearly McCain will die at some point, crazy as ever.

Michele Bachman seems quite sane on foreign policy as in John Huntsman (other than appeasing the Chinese). Perry is more dangerous than McCain if that's possible. Not sure about the rest.

Anonymous said...

Why is Putin a bad man? You haven't written much about him, so I don't know where you're coming from. I thought you'd be neutral about him.

Dennis Dale said...

Sonny was less dangerous to the other crime familis because he was, as his own father acknowledged, dangerous to his own. Somebody lure McCain out to the causeway. Tell him there are television cameras there or something.

He believed, against all evidence, that Putin wanted to help contain dangerous ME regimes and would help us out with that.

Against what evidence? Russia opposed us on Iraq because it had nothing to do with Islamic terrorism but oil. Of course they're out to undermine us in Eurasia--we're there undermining them, after all.

When the time came for us to find Iraqi WMD, ex-KGB agents had already helped them hide them the December before.

If that isn't a joke you are hereby promoted. But just for the record it was "assistant to the..."

Cathead said...

Israel has nuclear armed subs as well, enabling 2nd strikes against enemies.

Shawn said...

One one hand, Putin is a dictator.

On the other hand, who can say that the man does not have Russia's best interests at heart? He curbs immigration, took affirmative action regarding Khodorkovsky, works to raise Russian birth levels, and does not bow to the multicult.

Anonymous said...

"Putin is a bad man."

Says who? You eat the dog food of the people you despise without even noticing it.

Anonymous said...

Says who? You eat the dog food of the people you despise without even noticing it.

Do you have any idea how many Muslims Putin has let into Russia? You can see them celebrating Ramadhan and clogging up the streets of Moscow if you do a Google search.

Anonymous said...

For those of you who say Putin 'curbed' immigration, check up on how many Muslims entered Russia over the last ten years. The true numbers are probably much higher than the offical stats.

Fred said...

"Obama Presidency = air strikes, cruise missiles, drones, special forces

Bush/McCain Presidency = several hundred thousand ground troops, 'surges,' threatening other superpowers with no manpower or money to back it up."


You are ignoring Obama's tripling down on Afghanistan. Bush kept a light footprint there, perhaps because he understood despite his own rhetoric that it was pointless. Obama may have understood that too, but since he spent the campaign talking about how Iraq distracted from the "real war" in Afghanistan, he tripled the number of US troops there.

US KIA in Afghanistan in 8 years under Bush: 630

US KIA in Afghanistan in 2.5 under Obama: 1,184.

Fred said...

"Sonny was less dangerous to the other crime familis because he was, as his own father acknowledged, dangerous to his own."

Dennis Dale nails it.

Whiskey said...

Putin has been a disaster for Russia. As noted on the Corner at NRO, Russian strongmen tend to eliminate anyone who is bright and ambitious, crime-family type operations tend to produce worse results over time because anyone with any brains is a threat so they are found and killed. Mafia type organizations run on personal charisma and brutality (see also Saddam, Khadaffi, etc.) plus some patronage are fragile, lose the top guy and the place falls apart, every new generation has worse leaders.

Putin is far tougher, more competent, and dangerous than US President. But the people AROUND him are busy making sure they appease their boss by being no threat, so they are far less competent that those generally in the US Pentagon, Civil Service, various arms like the CIA and FBI, etc. Darwinism at the top tends to produce fifth raters at the near top, middle, and bottom. The US military is deadly because a Sergeant in the US Army has the same authority as a Russian Colonel.

Anonymous said...

In conventional warfare, the US would destroy Russia (including all its subs, aircraft and infantry divisions) in about 48 hours.

Is this the great strategic reason why we have to spend 12X of what Russia spends on its military?

Anonymous said...

Putin has been a disaster for Russia. As noted on the Corner at NRO, Russian strongmen tend to eliminate anyone who is bright and ambitious, crime-family type operations tend to produce worse results over time because anyone with any brains is a threat so they are found and killed.

Whiskey, you say this because Putin has cracked down on some ethnic oligarchs.

Assistant Village Idiot said...

Ion Pacepa. Sarindar.

So choose to believe otherwise.

I will note additionally the poor record of intelligence revealed in future comments of those who thinking playing off the Assistant Village Idiot name is somehow original and uproarious. You might pause briefly and wonder why I would find middle-school insults daunting.

Anonymous said...

"Do you have any idea how many Muslims Putin has let into Russia?"

Unfortunately, on that score he's as bad as Western leaders. But on many other issues he's better than them. Russia is solvent under him. Why? Because he's clamped down on thievery. Western nations are drowning in debt. Putin's government has been paying Russian women to have more children. Russia's TFR is up from something like 1.1 to about 1.6. Still not back up to Soviet levels, but at least it's going up. No improvement on that score in Europe. He's kept Russia out of NATO's wars. If Khodorkovsky was pulling the strings in the Kremlin now, Russian troops would be fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq alongside US troops. He's kept Russia united. Under a weaker leader it would have split further, and the process would have been violent. Temperamentally he's more traditionalist than any Western leader. If you think in relative, not absolute terms, then it's a no-brainer why the powers that be want to replace him so much.

Mr. Anon said...

"Skeptical Economist said...

Michele Bachman seems quite sane on foreign policy...."

Yeah, other than thinking that we will be cursed by God if we turn our back on Israel. Quite sane. It's funny that she is slavishly pro-Israel and yet many jews still seem to dislike her intensely.

Mr. Anon said...

"EYE OF HORUS said...

Guys like John McCain are the reason people think Republicans and Conservatives are Stupid, but in reality he's really a Neo-Con RINO."

I think the term RINO is a misnomer. Save for a relatively brief period, about 1910-1950, there was nothing especially conservative about the Republican party. In truth, Republicans are conservatives in name only.

Anonymous said...

On the other hand, who can say that the man does not have Russia's best interests at heart?

I can say that. His primary interests are interests of his x-KGB mafia.

He curbs immigration,

He doesn't.

took affirmative action regarding Khodorkovsky

Only because Khodorkovsky stepped out of the line. Prokhorov and Abramovich didn't and so they are perfectly safe.

does not bow to the multicult.

Multicult is all the rage in Russia.
The West had few decades of head start, that's all.

Anonymous said...

"That's the thing, Russia's nuclear weapons are the only thing that would repel a US invasion.

In conventional warfare, the US would destroy Russia (including all its subs, aircraft and infantry divisions) in about 48 hours.

Once a nation has nuclear capability, it's completely untouchable. North Korea can actually shell South Korean territory and only receives 'strongly worded' condemnations in response. Gaddafi was a fool to give up his program."

This is not true. You need megaton-level nukes AND the capacity to deploy them to be untouchable. Having a few kiloton-level nukes that must be carried by plane to hit the target does not make you untouchable because you can eliminate the threat by shooting down the planes. Even China does not have mass ICBMs. They have about a dozen themonuclear warheads and a couple of them in ICBMs. If the U.S went to nuclear war with China, the Chinese would take out New York and L.A whilst the U.S would wipe China from off the face of the Earth. The ONLY country in the World the U.S really can't f-ck with is Russia. They have huge megaton-level nukes and they are all in ICBMs. Putin can wipe out the U.S from existence in the blink of an eye if he wants to and is willing to sacrifice his country for it. And guess what? If he suspects the U.S wants to kill him, he MIGHT go as far as that. Very unlikely, but not completely out of the realm of possibility.

Baloo said...

Good point, Mr. Anon. For most of our history before progressives, the Democratic party was the conservative place.

Truth said...

"US KIA in Afghanistan in 8 years under Bush: 630

US KIA in Afghanistan in 2.5 under Obama: 1,184."

That's because he transferred so many troops from the Iraqi theater.

Anonymous said...

Maybe McCain really believes that Gadafi's demise was the result of the spontaneous uprising of democracy-loving Libyan citizens

I doubt it. I have a simpler explanation (because it happened to me personally during my college years):
Hang around Jews long enough and you'll start to talk and act like them. Jews have an incredible ability to live in a fantasy world and yet still be highly functional. Delusions are contagious. You can catch this stuff. I know this because it happened to me. I was once a proud Neocon. It's both embarrassing and hard to believe that I was once brain washed, but I was. My guess is that once McCain retires and moves to a quieter life, he'll be surrounded with his own kind and upon reflection will come to the same realization that I came to five years ago, that I was a useful idiot recruited to fight someone else's holy war.

stari_momak said...

""I think dictators all over the world, including Bashar al-Assad, maybe even Mr. Putin, maybe some Chinese

Classic

Lucius said...

Putin is unquestionably a man not to cross. Is he, by non-democratic standards, an evil man? Any worse than, say, Louis XIV, Napoleon, or-- most pertinent-- Peter the Great?

I've joked about polonium cocktails. It's not funny, of course; then again, it's not absolutely certain that's Putin's style. His is a very dangerous world, and he may well be the most enlightened of many alternatives (and better than his neighbours).

As a bit of a war nerd myself, I reject the idea the USA could crumble Russia's conventional arsenal at will. Its readiness is questionable, but theoretically at least it maintains some formidable strengths

The BTR-90 looks to be awesome. Why the devil would anyone build an armored fighting vehicle and then not hook it up with a grenade launcher and ATGMs on top of the 30mm main cannon and auxiliary machine gun?

The TU-160 'White Swan', the Su-35, the T-90, and even that lonely Queen of the North, the Admiral Kuznetsov, all have dreamy blow-'em-away sex appeal.

TGGP said...

It's not simply that Russia has "let in" Muslims". The Russian empire conquered areas that were already full of Muslims. Fortunately, the U.S was smart enough to locate itself between Canada and Mexico rather than near a bunch of Muslim territories.

Dictatorship of the Elite Proles said...

If the Chinese communist party is smart, it would create its own version of 'democracy' by splitting the communist party in two: Patriot Party vs Reform Party which would essentially be communist party A and communist party B.

I'd offer the terms Repcrats and Democons.

Allison said...

I never knew there were so many Russian trolls on boards just *waiting* for someone to bad mouth their leader. I guess the ex KGB need a job doing something. (wouldn't be current; usually the KGB are more subtle, taking internationalist realist positions on boards like Belmont Club.) This is as bad as how the PRC's lackeys do it.

Anonymous said...

In conventional warfare, the US would destroy Russia (including all its subs, aircraft and infantry divisions) in about 48 hours

... and then go bankrupt.

Dahlia said...

Steve,
How can you not like Putin? He truly loves his people and they have finally turned the corner after the rot caused by the oligarchs.
Putin is wise and not naive.

Captain Jack Aubrey said...

Obama wins: two years of the hell of a Democratic president and a Democratic Congress followed by two years of stalemate with a Democratic president and a Republican Congress.

McCain wins: two years of the hell of a liberal/neocon Republican president and Democratic Congress followed by two years of the even hotter hell of of a liberal/neocon Republican president and a Democratic supermajority Congress.

For me McCain was never an option.

Anonymous said...

I *hope* the Republican party has sobered up at this point. Clearly McCain will die at some point, crazy as ever.


Yes, that's why Bachmann became apoplectic when Ron Paul suggested we stop writing blank foreign aid checks to Israel. The fact that the rest of the GOP field treats Paul like some kind of weird Ralph Nader of the Right, for not wanting to invade the world tells you were the GOP is on the subject of military intervention.

Eric said...

Putin has about a dozen active boomers: nuclear powered submarines carrying nuclear-armed intercontinental ballistic missiles. (Most of them not Hunt for Red October-style Typhoon Class leviathans, but still ...)

Supposedly the Russians are going to be without boomers for a few years as they're forced to retire worn-out Deltas and Typhoons(only one of which is in service as a test bed, so I guess it ought to be singular). The armament for the replacement class (the Borei) is years late and still not working properly.

Of course, there are still thousands of ICBMs and bombers, so it doesn't really change the strategic picture.

Felix said...

If the Chinese communist party is smart, it would create its own version of 'democracy' by splitting the communist party in two: Patriot Party vs Reform Party which would essentially be communist party A and communist party B.

Hmm, I'm trying to think of another country or group of countries where the powers that be have adopted this strategy...nope, nothing comes to mind, nothing at all.... lol

Anonymous said...

Qazzafi

What's this supposed to be mocking? Sophisticates who think their transliteration is more 'authentic' than others?

Silver

jody said...

"In conventional warfare, the US would destroy Russia (including all its subs, aircraft and infantry divisions) in about 48 hours."

the US military couldn't even do that to iraq. it would win, but it would take a lot longer than 48 hours. that you, obama?

how it would kill all of the russian army in 48 hours is a great mystery to me. russia is set up to sweep across europe with tanks. it has A LOT. and lots of artilley and infantry too. the russian army is such a threat that the united states military keeps 50 THOUSAND troops in germany at all times. right now. right this second. they're fairly concerned about T tanks ever rolling into action under MiG cover.

especially with F22s grounded and F35s not coming along nicely, it's a potential situation. not likely of course, but nevertheless. the russians can definitely see and intercept the american's stealth aircraft, anyway. i would also retire the B-1. designed to invade russia, back before stealth, and not really necessary now and an easy way to cut the ludicrous defense budget.

the US navy would be able to sink most of the russian navy in 1 or 2 weeks, though, that's true. while taking heavy, heavy losses. world war 2 level losses. whole ships with thousands of guys on them, killed sunk and drowned. once the US subs sank all the russian subs, the US navy would still have trouble getting close to russia's coasts because of all the great missiles russia has for finding and sinking the american's surface vessels.

Anonymous said...

"Qazzafi

What's this supposed to be mocking?"

Steve's orthographic Gaddafi joke jumped the shark long ago and it just keeps getting worse.

Vilko said...

It's funny that [Michele Bachman] is slavishly pro-Israel and yet many jews still seem to dislike her intensely.
Being slavishly pro-Israel is the norm for US politicians, so why should any American jew be grateful to her for that?

Anonymous said...

One idiot here wrote that 'both Chinese and Russian leaderships are shaken by recent events'.

Pure unadulterated bullpoopy - and unfortunately and sadly indicative of the intellect (are rather lack of) of some of the downright idiots who post here.
The fact is Putin is a democratically elected leader - and during the recent turmoil in Russia and the surrounding republics following the collapse of the USSR he live through - at very first hand - far, far worse than the pathetic little fisticuffs we saw in Libya.And we have the little matter of that brutal Chechen insurgency.
As for China, doesn't Mr. Idiot realise by now, can't he get it into his thick skull that this day October 2011 it is CHINA that is massively bankrolling the USA, and not the other way around.If China was so minded it could screw, literally destroy the USA overnight without letting off a single ICBM let alone fire a single bullet - a total liquadation of all dollar asets ordered from on high (unlikely but entirely possible), would f*ck up the USA overnight.
You'll be just as pathetic and enraged as the Greeks are.
If you don't believe just look at the bottom line, the assets/liabilities balance sheets.
Of course for an older person this is hard to take in and believe - the image of rickshaws and conical straw hats still comes to mind.But that dear friends is what 40 years of globalist, neo-con and Republican 'free trade' policies have got you.
Policies that McCain would back to the last starving American.

headache said...

Funny, I kinda like Putin. I wish our western leaders were doing for our countries what he is doing for Russia.

Anonymous said...

"Steve,
How can you not like Putin? He truly loves his people and they have finally turned the corner after the rot caused by the oligarchs.
Putin is wise and not naive."

Steve is of the wasp 'play fair and gentlemanly' school. It's in his blood.

Svigor said...

Yeah, other than thinking that we will be cursed by God if we turn our back on Israel. Quite sane. It's funny that she is slavishly pro-Israel and yet many jews still seem to dislike her intensely.

More sad than funny. Ashkenazis make "spoiled for choice" look like an understatement.

Kylie said...

"Putin is a bad man. I don't like him."

Exactly how I feel about Obama.

Well, maybe not exactly, but it's a good start.

Anon87 said...

Are these the same subs that are sinking in docks and leaking radiation?

Georgia Resident said...

"We live in interesting times."

Maybe McCain provoked the Chinese into cursing us?

Georgia Resident said...

"Putin is a bad man"
The vast majority of Russians seem to like him okay, and he mightily pisses off both the left and the neocons. He may be a bad man, but he's a bad man that I like better than George Bush or Barack Obama.

Maya said...

"Any worse than, say, Louis XIV, Napoleon, or-- most pertinent-- Peter the Great?"

Peter the Great paid his whores way under the agreed upon fee after services were rendered when he was an adolescent. He was a BAD man! It's one of a very few facts I remember from my pre-immigration history class... I'm gonna go now...

Anonymous said...

"For me McCain was never an option."

I dunno. I can tolerate McCain's dumb talk. Besides, I don't think he could have gotten us into another war. In fact, even Iraq War happened only because of 9/11.

But think... if McCain had won...
No Sotomayor and Kagan for the next 30 yrs. No Eric Holder.
I'll take McCain over Obama anyday.
I think all this McCain-is-worse talk is just therapeutism to soft-peddle our defeat.

Under McCain, there would have been bailout of Wall Street. But then, there would have been more liberal opposition to Wall Street, which is more effective than conservative opposition to it. Because Obama's been president, liberal criticism of WS has been very muted.

Even so, what I find funny about Occupy Wall Street is it's not so much between Right vs Left but liberal elites vs liberal freaks. It's rich NY vs angry NY.

Anonymous said...

"As a bit of a war nerd myself, I reject the idea the USA could crumble Russia's conventional arsenal at will. Its readiness is questionable, but theoretically at least it maintains some formidable strengths"

Russia's great advantage--at least as a defensive power--is its size and natural resources.
Japan had to take and hold Asia cuz it was deficient in raw materials. Japan never gained sufficient mastery of Asia or had enough time to exploit those resources.
Germany was also resource deficient.
In the war between Germany and UK, UK controlled the seas and had access to raw materials all over. Germany had to be depend on Soviet supplies. If Stalin had cut off supplies to Germany, Hitler would have been in a tough spot.

Soviet Union, in contrast, had tremendous natural resources to keep it fighting for a logn time even without supplies from outside its own empire.
So, even though US destroys much of Russian military, it could be replenished from within.

Anonymous said...

"This is as bad as how the PRC's lackeys do it."

There's a bizarre idea in some circles that the people who defend the Chinese government on the Net are paid by that government to do so. Where do the people who propagate this idea live? Do they not know any Chinese?

I'm a round-eye who's never been to the Far East, but I do know some Chinese-Americans. I haven't met a single one of them who shared the NY Times/Economist magazine view of China. It's like anti-Muslim, pro-"democracy" Muslims. They only exist on TV. Ever. Have you ever talked about politics with any Muslims? Well, with the Chinese the intensity isn't the same, but the level of unanimity is similar.

ALL the Chinese with whom I've ever talked about politics in real life defended the Chinese political system, were touchy about Tibet (in the opposite way from the one in which the Western media wants them to be touchy about it), and so on. Some of these people were born in the US, some were brought here when they were toddlers.

People saying that everyone who defends the Chinese government on the Net is paid by Chinese security forces is like Dick Cheney saying in 2003 that American soldiers would be met with flowers in Baghdad.

Anonymous said...

Suppose neither US or Russia had nukes and war were to break out. Let's play some war games. I would never want such but let's just play it for fun.
I think US vs USSR(as opposed to US vs Russia, the game we are playing) would have been madness, especially before high-tech/computer technology gave US a decisive edge in quality over quantity. When hardware mattered more than software in war, USSR was mighty indeed. Also, Russia had tight grip over Eastern Europe, and Central Asia--and its vast resources--was all part of USSR. Such a war would have been bad for US. USSR could just steamroll into Western Europe, where bulk of the war would have been fought.
But today, it's a different story.

US vs Russia in a conventional war may be doable. Not to invade and totally defeat Russia but to smash it as a regional power.
How? First, let's begin with Clausewitz's dictum 'war is diplomacy by other means'. Begin first with diplomacy and then extend it into war where force is necessary and useful. Go to Eastern Europeans for support. After 50 yrs under Russian rule, they might like to see Russia crippled forever as a major power. Make a secret deal with Ukraine where we promise them a chunk of Russia territory if they support us. Make deals with Kazakstan, Uzbekistan, and Turkemistan too. The Muslim-majority territories of Russia will be divided among them if they join us. Afghanistan too will get a piece of Muslim-Russia if they join us. Promise China a big chunk of Siberia if they don't oppose us in the UN. Promise Finland the land they lost to Russia. Of course, much of this has to be done very secretly so as to prevent preemptive Russian invasion of those areas.
American Jews and exiled oligarchs in Europe can use their muscle to bring EU/Nato into the program. Russia is now surrounded and isolated.

War begins. Use long range missiles--tons of them--to take out all Russian military bases. Use drones to gain air supremacy. Knock out communications and transportation. Etc, etc.

We win.

Get Off My Lawn! said...

Speaking of Israel and thinking of the recent prisoner exchange, why don't the Israelis just remove all Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank and dump them on the territory of a US ally like Jordan?

Uhhh ... because they already did that? Gaza and the West Bank didn't used to belong to Israel. They belonged to Egypt and Jordan, respectively, before the Six-Day War. These territories were full of Palestinians back then, too, and they were none too happy with the way their Muslim overlords treated them. Israel could accomplish exactly what you propose simply by returning to its pre-1967 borders.

With regard to Bad Vlad Putin: Officially, I don't like him because he is a dictator in all but name, presiding over a state that is the only serious military threat to my own country.

Unofficially, I think he's cool. His macho (and often shirtless - looking pretty good for a guy who's nearly 60) posturing may seem ridiculous to us in the West, but the Russian people seem to enjoy it, either seriously or ironically. Under his leadership, Russia has come a long way back from the dark days of the 1990s.

Also, I like the fact that Russia remains strong enough to check Chinese military power. The Russkies will never tolerate a China that's even close to the US in terms of military strength because they have a lot more lose.

Anonymous said...

My theory is that Cindy McCain gets all hot and bothered when John goes all mavericky...

Seneca said...

"ALL the Chinese with whom I've ever talked about politics in real life defended the Chinese political system, were touchy about Tibet (in the opposite way from the one in which the Western media wants them to be touchy about it), and so on."

Bullseye! I am an American guy with friends in China. This has been my experience when discussing politics with Chinese people. Many, particularily the young, are suprisingly nationalistic too.

Derbyshire, whose wife I believe is of Chinese descent, and who speaks and reads Chinese has also written about this phenomenon and has stated that this is the result of nationalism replacing marxism in the Chinese school systems (something had to fill the void when Mao's ideas became obsolete).

The process has created a strange amalgam of nationalism and reverence for the communist party that is hard to describe.

On the other hand, I have met some older highly successful Chinese professionals who lived in China during the Chinese Cultural Revolution but managed to get to and stay in the U.S. via graduate school studies who told me some real horror stories about the communist party and that period of Chinese history. I would say these people were highly skeptical about the communist party.

You are right though about the young people or those young enough to have avoided most of the Cultural Revolution (those born after 1970 or so).

Anonymous said...

"I'm a round-eye who's never been to the Far East, but I do know some Chinese-Americans. I haven't met a single one of them who shared the NY Times/Economist magazine view of China. It's like anti-Muslim, pro-"democracy" Muslims. They only exist on TV. Ever. Have you ever talked about politics with any Muslims? Well, with the Chinese the intensity isn't the same, but the level of unanimity is similar."

Chinese-Americans enjoy the best of both worlds. As Americans, they enjoy freedom, rights, and democracy. But as Chinese, they root for the quasi-fascist regime in China to suppress chaotic freedom and whip/shape China into a superpower.

"I likey freedom for myself in America but freedom no good for China. It too messy. China grow strong under strong hand."

Steve Johnson said...

Whiskey -

"The US military is deadly because a Sergeant in the US Army has the same authority as a Russian Colonel. "

You're remarkable.

How you can know so much about military operations and comic books and television series and celebrity gossip!?! It's amazing.

Please fill me in on a few areas (you know, for my curiosity):

1) What is the process for calling in an air strike in the US Army and what is the corresponding process for doing so in the Russian military? Who needs to approve of this?

2) What is the process for calling in artillery fire in the US Army and what is the corresponding process for doing so in the Russian military? Who needs to approve of this?

3) Exactly what authority does a US Army sergeant have that a Russian Army major lack (you know, given that US Army sergeant == Russian Army colonel)?

Why do I have the feeling that you won't answer this?

Anonymous said...

Tribute to Gaddafy

Anonymous said...

I've always considered Vlad P a common gangster, w/in the historical mainline for autocrats but certainly nobody to emulate; funny, I didn't know that made me a "neocon" chicken-hawk Lockheed lobbyist secretly covetous of Serb greatness. As for the politics of the more acute Chimericans they're not any more monolithic than American Jews' (which largely descend from Russian bias cuz the European Jews are, well, dead). My private high school's enrollment in the San Gabriel Valley was shaped somewhat by the influx of rich Taiwanese and HK machers (hence "Chan Marino"). Equal parts exile/carpetbagger IMO but their muted expressions of race pride never included abolishing Tibet. There are ample testosterone-addled Chinglish message boards, I wouldn't take em as seriously as 4chan or Free Republic.

neil craig said...

Putin has been repeatedly voted in by the free choice of the vast majority of the Russian people. They even have a PR system which, unlike in America, allows third (4th & onwards) parties to be represented according to their support). If Putin is not a democratically elected leader certainly no US President has ever been.

There seems to be a feeling that "democracy" means "rule by somebody approved of by the US/NATO". It doesn't.

Putin's enormous popularity is explained by the fact that befot has been growing 7% annually. I think most American would vote for somebody able to promise that, or even a bit less, over Obama. And they may now get that choice. A choice not open to them when, for example Bush beat Gore.

I wonder how long it will be before China has a strike drone capable of infiltrating the US borders and hiting McCain's house. If they have, or shortly will, would they be ethically justified in using it? If not, why not?

GFC said...

Being slavishly pro-Israel is the norm for US politicians, so why should any American jew be grateful to her for that?

They are never grateful for anything, goes with the territory.

Also lol at all of the jingos in this combox - WE COULD TOTALLY TAKE RUSSIA IN 48 HOURS WE WIN - as if the past decade of not totally taking Iraq and Afghanistan didn't happen. STFU you idiots.

Conatus said...

I like Putin so much I have a Putin t-shirt.He had a Labrador Retriever named Amy who scared Angela Merkel when she came to visit. That says a lot about what Germany is like now.

Putin seems like the old fashioned macho leader, not some effete, manicured, Davos man who uses his massive verbal ability to be all things to all people. Wasn't Russia looted in a fire sale and sold at ten cents on the dollar to eight oligarchs, seven of whom were Jewish. Didn't Putin come in and take Russia back and give it to the people who, as I recall are mostly white.
Putin is much more a man of the Russian people than any of our elite elected leaders.

I tip my hat to Putin and drink my favorite drink(also the fav of the Big Lebowski) The Caucasian, aka the White Russian.

Anonymous said...

Steve must not have seen this clip , as he'd have linked to it if he had.

McCain, just back from a visit to Libya in 2009, says that the US and Libya can "work together as partners" and says that "the ties between the United States and Libya have taken a remarkable and positive turn in recent years".

Felix said...

We win.

Haha, something tells me 99% of the people who post here are not really included in that "we."

Otis McWrong said...

People repeatedly miss the most obvious explanation for McCain's pronouncements: he is stupid. Not mouth-breathing struggles with 2+2 stupid, but approx 100 IQ combined with zero intellectual curiosity combined with boundless self-confidence stupid.

I have met him a couple of times and once knew of his sons quite well. Both are afflicted with The Confidence of the Idiot. Loudly pronouncing gibberish with complete confidence. Those differing are ignored or assumed to be "corrupt".

We all know at an intellectual level that there is no screen in the US preventing an imbecile from holding significant power, yet when a Exhibit A like McCain is presented to us we look for alternate explanations.

McCain's entire worldview was shaped by the invincibility of the mid-to-late 1940's US Navy in which his father served. He has not admitted anything into his pedestrian brain in all the following years.

Anonymous said...

TGGP said...
It's not simply that Russia has "let in" Muslims". The Russian empire conquered areas that were already full of Muslims.

And not all of these were in the Central Asian "stans" either. There are many small muslim nations such as Tatarstan and Chechnya that are within the actual Russia border.

And there are also a good many ethnic Russians who have converted to Islam.

TGGP said...

I'm skeptical about the conversion claims. Conversion is predicted by the religion of folks in your social circle, so immigrants and their children converting to the majority religion is common. Do ethnic Russians seek to demonstrate their hipness through having lots of muslim friends?

Maya said...

"Do ethnic Russians seek to demonstrate their hipness through having lots of muslim friends?"

I recentely found a long lost childhood friend who is a pureblooded ethnic Russian. She is super hip nowadays since her job as a high price prost..., I mean her job as a party representative in the company that sells boats to multi-millionairs allows her to travel all over the world and to meet all kinds of sorta famous people. She demostrates her hipness by asking her Facebook friends to suggest the types of gifts she could give the Muslim janitors and Muslim snow shovelers for their religious holidays. She also said that she greets them in Arabic (even though they are Kyrgyz and Tajik).

Anonymous said...

Yep. Lol.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Libyans will now become a bunch of Libyarals.

Anonymous said...

Gaddafi should have concentrated on Libya. He was once popular. Hitler too should have just concentrated on Germany. Germans loved him too. They were both undermined by expansionism. George W. Bush too. He should have had a humble foreign policy.

Anonymous said...

"And there are also a good many ethnic Russians who have converted to Islam."

Only through intermarriage. The only religion Russians are converting to oddly enough is Hinduism (Hare Krishna).

Anonymous said...

"And there are also a good many ethnic Russians who have converted to Islam."

Only through intermarriage.

There are, and have been, mostley in the last ten years, ethnic Russians consciously converting to Islam. Many did so to protest betrayal by the Russian Orthodox Church.

The only religion Russians are converting to oddly enough is Hinduism (Hare Krishna).

Is Hare Krishna even true Hinduism?

Anonymous said...

"I like Putin so much I have a Putin t-shirt.He had a Labrador Retriever named Amy who scared Angela Merkel when she came to visit."

I like Putin as long as he's president of another country. I think white folks feel toward Putin as Chinese-Americans feel toward Beijing.
Chinese-Americans want all their freedom and rights here but are proud to see the rise of mighty China under a strong-patriotic government.
White conservative Americans cherish their full democratic rights in the US, but they feel good to see a proud white man act real badass in (Eastern)Europe.
Freedom for me but power for my race.

Anonymous said...

"There are, and have been, mostley in the last ten years, ethnic Russians consciously converting to Islam. Many did so to protest betrayal by the Russian Orthodox Church."

I was being a little glib but of course some ethnic Russians that consciously chose to convert to Islam but most of the cases I've heard involved marrying a Muslim. Heartfelt conversions are actually quite rare and sometimes there is a political component such as sympathy for the Chechens. Based on the numbers I've seen, since the early 1990's there have been at most 5,000 Russian converts to Islam whereas there have been close to 60,000 Russian converts to Hare Krishna Hinduism. If you visit some Muslims sites they laugh at the idea that Islam is going to take over Russia by 2050 since there aren't that many Russian converts to Islam and also because many of the Muslims in Russia are converting to Orthodox Christianity.

"Is Hare Krishna even true Hinduism?"

No such thing as true Hinduism. The Hare Krishna revere a Hindu deity so that makes them Hindu.

Anonymous said...

‘Neocon John’ McCain raises prospect of military option in Syria (for Israel of course!)


http://america-hijacked.com/2011/10/23/neocon-john-mccain-raises-prospect-of-military-option-in-syria/


Cindy McCain and John McCain don't care about US Navy sailors and marines murdered by Israel on the USS Liberty:

http://tinyurl.com/CindyMcCainUSSLiberty

‘Humanitarian’ Cindy McCain doesn’t care about Palestinian children starving in Gaza

http://america-hijacked.com/2011/10/25/humanitarian-cindy-mccain-doesnt-care-about-palestinian-children-starving-in-gaza/

Additional via http://America-Hijacked.com