January 22, 2011

African Americans being driven from NYC

The NYT has maps showing demographic winners and losers in New York City between the 2000 and 2010 Censuses. By far, the biggest losers are American-born blacks, whose numbers are growing only on the remote peripheries of the city. 

With crime in New York City way, way down as African-Americans are economically cleansed, American-born whites are resurgent across much of the more desirable central part of the city, especially recolonizing some convenient neighborhoods in northern Manhattan and northern Brooklyn. 

Much of the Waiting for "Superman"-style frenzy over school reform has to do with NYC whites trying to figure out how they can take back the schools as well as the streets -- all without ever coming out and articulating exactly what they are trying to do.

150 comments:

Anonymous said...

Staten Island is 2/3 white. A lot of white Italians and other ethnics have fled other parts of NYC, like Bensonhurst and the Bronx, for Staten Island.

Anonymous said...

For anybody that lives in NYC, question: How bad are Puerto Rican and Dominican areas, in comparison to black areas?

I would think pretty bad, considiering how dangerous Spanish Harlem continues to be. Washington Heights was also really bad not that long ago, but it's now okay.

Anonymous said...

Who's winning?

Whites have to live in NYC. Yikes. Sounds like a loss to me.

Anonymous said...

New York white liberals want diversity in their schools, as long as that means a smallish minority of charming blacks and hispanics who act like middle class whites. Oh, and not too many academically obsessed Asians.

Anonymous said...

Not quite, Mr. Sailer. Go back to the Albert Shanker strikes, and you'll see it was the same limousine liberals who wanted to bring in blacks to replace whites.

Whitey Lawful said...

Thank God that whites tend to value individual autonomy -- or at least -- know the difference between whites; rather then a racial-herd conformity. I'll take a native black a foreign white anytime... excluding Papists whom are the majority on the East coast.

Anonymous said...

I suspect an unconscious motivation for elite liberal supporters of the Waiting for Superman agenda is that blaming bad schools gives them a non-racial excuse to send their children to private schools.

For Republicans, the motivation is simply to bust the hated unions, and they're happy Democrats are divided. I don't think most GOP leaders and CEOs really care one way or the other whether public education is effective or not.

Anonymous said...

"For anybody that lives in NYC, question: How bad are Puerto Rican and Dominican areas, in comparison to black areas?"

Well, Inwood, which is largely Dominican, isn't all that bad. Not a good neighborhood but significantly better than the worst parts of the city.
Spanish Harlem (Puerto Rican) on the other hand, has one of the highest if not highest crime rates in the whole city. Higher than most of the predominantly black neighborhoods.

Keep in mind that blacks in NYC aren't your usual African Americans. A large portion of them are either black immigrants or the offspring of black immigrants.
The native born black neighborhoods are almost all worse than the predominantly foreign black neighborhoods.

Another trend in NYC now is the poorest native blacks being displaced by middle and upper class blacks.

But the main thing that the data confirms is working and middle class whites continuing to leave NYC for not only the suburbs but now often out of the whole Northeast region. Same with blacks. Upper class whites and immigrants (mostly Asian and Hispanic) are taking their places. Maybe not directly, but the complex reshuffling in the city results this way.

Even in Staten Island, whites will be a minority not too far in the future. They're already a minority for the northern part of the island. Same trend with Queens, the north half of the Bronx, and southern Brooklyn.

Figgy said...

Interestingly enough, I was in midtown Manhattan tonight, and couldn't help noticing the paucity of African Americans in that area. I recall the pre-Guiliani decades of the 70s and 80s when there were many streets you didn't want to walk down without plenty of friends. Those same streets are now virtually "cleansed" of Black people. I saw lots of white folks, a fair amount of Asians, and a few small groups of Hispanics. In the over-priced French inspired wine bar, I saw one attractive Black lady with a young white fellow, and, eventually, one Black guy. The rest of the clientele was pretty much whities, the diversity coming from the proliferating European accents to be heard in the bar area. I don't recall seeing one sleaze bar or peep show in the course of our walking, which encompassed a 10 block area. How things have changed in the big city, at least THAT area of the big city.

Anonymous said...

I've worked with a few black folks here in NYC who ended up relocating "down south". Most still had family there, which eased the move for them. I'm assuming that low rents and home prices in the South were the primary motivation, though I've never asked for the motives myself.

I should note that traditional American blacks form a minority of black people in NYC. The biggest group comes from the Caribbean and a small percentage arrived directly from Africa in recent years.

Caribbean blacks do better economically here than traditional US blacks, though not by very much. Their attitude is noticeably better. The attitude of African blacks is better still. I'm guessing that this is partly due to selection (not everyone emigrates) and partly to relative lack of leftist brainwashing where they came from.

"How bad are Puerto Rican and Dominican areas, in comparison to black areas?"

I've always wondered about this: Puerto Ricans tend to behave worse than you would guess from their appearance.

Whitey Lawful said...

Pardon me--i meant i'll take a native black over a foreign white...

agnostic said...

The picture looks even worse if you lump the Caribbeans (i.e. Dominican and Puerto Rican) with African-Americans, since most of them are mostly African by blood. The map of Caribbeans shows a big loss from northern Manhattan, and a growth of Central Americans there.

But don't worry, any day now the newly arrived Mexicans will give the rest of the society their own version of the Harlem Renaissance, much like things happened in southern California, so it'll all be worth it.

And at least whites in New York will finally be able to enjoy having a good whine about how bad the Mexican food is in the rest of the country.

Anonymous said...

A little more on this topic:

The dynamics of selection that are involved in immigration are mysterious to me. Puerto Rico is doing kind of OK considering, yet Puerto Ricans in NYC aren't. Haiti is a hellhole, yet the Haitians I've known in NYC generally had good attitude and were sort of middle class. The same is true of Jamaicans, though to a lesser extent.

Some waves of immigration (Arabs and Turks in Europe, Mexicans in the US) overrepresent the bottom of the social hierarchy of the countries of origin, while others (for some reason Africa and the Caribbean are examples of this) overrepresent the top,

OneSTDV said...

"African Americans"?????

Anonymous said...

Culturally, the blacks, Puerto Ricans, and Dominicans seem to have quite a bit in common. The Latinos seem to have picked up hip hop culture pretty thoroughly and listen to a lot of rap, wear bling, and love jerseys and Ne Era hats.

It's funny when you see a black New Yorker and he has a name like Rivera. It's not what you'd expect if you spent your entire life outside the east coast.

In New York state, Latinos are incarcerated at 2/3 of the rate of black New Yorkers. I'd be curious how PRs and Dominicans compare, compared to the other Latino subgroups.

Anonymous said...

MLB is filled with black Latinos from places like Cuba and the DR.

Black Sea said...

The NY Times is also running an article titled "Williamsburg, Toddlertown," which should probably be a companion piece. I've never lived in NY, but my impression is that Williamsburg wouldn't have been a choice location for young famlies with money and options 20 years ago.

I found the article interesting, which I can't always say for the Times. I used to wonder how these young(ish) people were able to afford these $600,000 to 1 million dollar condos, but as Half Sigma has pointed out, they're often relying on generous parents to help out, or at least, their first apartment was purchased with parental aide, and they've been moving upward from there.

I was particularly interested in the careers of the wives and mothers in the article. One is a freelance writer, another a jewelry designer and blogger. The third has her own design firm (which can mean anything from a thriving business to an at-home hobby), and the fourth works for the Associated Press. All things considered, someone, the husband or the in-laws, is subsidizing their Williamsburg lifestyle. I guessed they picked well. Two fo the four have Asian names. One of the husbands looks somewhat African-American, but may have had an Asian parent as well. Another husband and condo owner is 29 years old. Jesus, at 29, the only dwelling I could have purchased would have been a nylon tent, so it's kind of an exotic world to me. I guess that's why I liked the article.

Anyhow, the article is here.

Fred said...

The whiteness of Manhattan is almost jarring for anyone who remembers what the city looked like 20+ years ago. Neighborhoods that used to be sketchy, like the Lower East Side, are full of 20-something whites (plus a smattering of Asians) barhopping. White girls feel safe enough to walk alone at night.

Fred said...

"But don't worry, any day now the newly arrived Mexicans will give the rest of the society their own version of the Harlem Renaissance, much like things happened in southern California, so it'll all be worth it."

There are plenty of Mexican busboys and delivery boys in Manhattan, but I doubt many of them live there.

sabril said...

Yes I've noticed this too. Blacks I meet in NYC are constantly moving to places like Georgia and South Carolina.

Probably if the government stopped subsidizing NYC blacks through Section 8 vouchers and civil service jobs, 90% would be gone within a year or two.

TGGP said...

Since schools tend to draw from the local area (good neighborhoods = good schools = good neighbors), taking back the streets pretty much automatically means taking back the schools. I think Megan McArdle has called some such resulting schools "de facto private".

know-nothing said...

'I'll take a native black a foreign white anytime... excluding Papists whom are the majority on the East coast.'

Thank ye, Mr. Nast. And say hi to Santa Claus for me.

Simon in London said...

The New York fall in crime predated the ethnic cleansing of blacks, though. It was the fall in crime that encouraged whites to move in, property prices & rents went up, blacks sold to whites, or their landlords rerented to whites, and blacks moved to cheaper areas.

It's possible to have blacks + a low crime rate. It's just that if the black crime rate is low, the white crime rate will be extremely low. It's the crime ratio that seems more or less fixed, not the absolute crime level.

Steve Sailer said...

"taking back the streets pretty much automatically means taking back the schools"

Not necessarily -- fertility can be wildly different, especially in a densely populated urban neighborhood. And school district boundaries can cross demographic boundaries, especially for larger schools beyond fifth grade. There are a lot of tricky questions involved here.

jack strocchi said...

Anonymous said...

New York white liberals want diversity in their schools, as long as that means a smallish minority of charming blacks and hispanics who act like middle class whites. Oh, and not too many academically obsessed Asians.

Basically status-obsessed middle class SWPLs are anxious about the HBD pincer:

- mugged by African-American gangsta under-class

and

- trumped by Asian-American "tiger mom" upper-class.

This SWPL status-anxiety reaches a peak of intensity in the furious competition to get a decent apartment in a safe neigbourhood near a good school in NYC.

Unfortunately these fears and phobias cannot be publicly expressed in polite company. So the whole debate must be conducted in code.

No wonder liberal arts graduates are so hooked on "deconstruction".

Anonymous said...

Atlanta is pretty safe and prosperous, but has a very large black population and is majority minority. Same is true for Houston and Dallas.

Are southern blacks more easygoing than those up north? I'm just wondering, because it seems like a lot of white Southern conservatives don't mind having African-American neighbors.

Anonymous said...

There are a lot of tricky questions involved here.

And in a locale like Manhattan, you can bet your bottom dollar that all the right parents will be filling the school board meetings to Standing-Room-Only capacity so as to make dadgum certain that those tricky questions get answered correctly.

Anonymous said...

A similar thing is going on in Chicago. Many parts of the city are whiter than they used to be. You see a lot more white children than you did 20 years ago.

peter A said...

"trumped by Asian-American "tiger mom" upper-class."

You do realize that "Tiger Mom" is is married to an Ashkenazi Jew, right? Most pure Han Chinese are nowhere near as ambitious as Tiger Mom. It's the Asian-Jewish combo that's going to take over the world. Smart ambitious Chinese girls are all looking for Jewish men.

Simon in London said...

Anon:
"Are southern blacks more easygoing than those up north? I'm just wondering, because it seems like a lot of white Southern conservatives don't mind having African-American neighbors."

As a white visiting the US I quickly noticed that Northern blacks showed far more hostility to me than did Northern blacks. OTOH Southern whites are friendlier than Northern whites, too.

I general, I think Southern whites and blacks have mostly established a modus vivendi, except possibly in Louisiana. This is not the case in the North.

Going back to before the Civil War, Southern whites believed whites could live alongside blacks as the ruling class - they were 'white supremacists' - while northern whites believed the two races must live apart - they were 'white separatists'.

Even these days, northern whites seem much more scared of blacks. A Southern good ole boy white will happily get in a bar brawl with a black; Northerners seem more likely to flee or surrender.

SFG said...

"trumped by Asian-American "tiger mom" upper-class."

More upper-middle or middle, part of the reason they're not at top is the extracurricular emphasis of the Ivies (created 80 years ago to keep Jews out, and now for Asians). Other than that, it's as you describe.

Anonymous said...

"Atlanta is pretty safe and prosperous, but has a very large black population and is majority minority. Same is true for Houston and Dallas.

Are southern blacks more easygoing than those up north? I'm just wondering, because it seems like a lot of white Southern conservatives don't mind having African-American neighbors."

_____________________________

Maybe small towns are like this, but from my observations as a Yankee and non-native resident Dallasite, this is not true here at all. I will admit that blacks here are friendlier, with a few older ones even doing the disturbing old-schoool subservient schtick around whites. However:

City politics are deeply divided between black south side and white north side. (I guess not enough Latinos vote to count.) Whites here are conservative and not interested in paying huge taxes to subsidize blacks, so most blacks are not as well off as in the north. Dallas city public schools plunged in white enrollment since desegregation and are now 95% + black and Hispanic. The northern suburbs are 90% + white and many whites would never live "south of 635." There are just two "good" public elementary schools in Dallas proper, i.e. with a plurality of whites, and it costs real money to live in those zones.

And crime is huge in Dallas and Houston too! Constant, constant reports of burglary, post-nightclub shootings and spectacular drunk-driving crashes (a Latino specialty). Every single homeowner has a burglar alarm system -- I hadn't seen that before. Whites are hugely anxious about crime. You can relax at ease in the "nice white" parts of Manhattan in a way that you can't in the "nice white" parts of Dallas because muggers come there too.

So, the statements quoted above should be seriously qualified.

Anonymous said...

The U.S., at least the urbanized parts, will become just like Brazil where the whites/successful types live in the center of the city and the criminals live on the periphery.

Anonymous said...

"A lot of white Italians and other ethnics have fled other parts of NYC, like Bensonhurst and the Bronx, for Staten Island."

Alicia, her five illegitimate kids from different men, and live-in boyfriend Raphael now occupy Ralph and Alice's apartment at 358 Chauncey St. in Bensonhurst. But nothing interesting happens there anymore, except fist fights, noisy procreation, beer drinking, TV watching, and trash being dumped out the kitchen window. Occasionally Normando comes down the fire escape and tries to steal the flat screen TV when everyone is passed out on heroin. Later, Raphael will slice him up with a razor at the pool hall.

Severn said...

But the main thing that the data confirms is working and middle class whites continuing to leave NYC for not only the suburbs but now often out of the whole Northeast region. Same with blacks. Upper class whites and immigrants (mostly Asian and Hispanic) are taking their places. Maybe not directly, but the complex reshuffling in the city results this way.

This illustrates a useful point. Although people on the left give a great deal of lip-service to the need for an equitable society, one with a small range of income diversity, in practice what they always end up creating is a society with a wealthy cognitive elite lording it over a dirt poor, ignorant, and low skilled working class. NYC is a perfect example of this.

From the point of view of the middle class as an entity, liberalism is death.

Severn said...

Smart ambitious Chinese girls are all looking for Jewish men.

And your understanding of what smart ambitious Chinese girls are looking for is based on what, exactly?

Truth said...

"it seems like a lot of white Southern conservatives don't mind having African-American neighbors."

LMAO. Just read 'Born Fighting' by Jum Webb, he had a great anecdote, ostensibly from his father;

(paraphrase) "Son one thing I've learned while traveling the U.S.: White people in the south don't mind blacks getting close, as long as they don't get rich; whites in the north don't mind black people getting rich, as long as they don't get close"!

Anonymous said...

New Yorkers (and Jews especially) were never more racially tolerant than they'd have us believe. They are no more subject to integration under any environment than your average American, except, perhaps, on the subway.

They obviously don't attend church or synagogue with blacks, they don't live in the same neighborhoods as blacks, their kids don't go to school with blacks, and they don't really even work with blacks.

In the Southern city where I lived for a few years there was a Jewish section of town where all the synagogues, temples, yeshiva, etc. were located. The city had mandatory busing but, coincidentally - coincidentally! - the neighborhood schools had magnet programs that kept the local kids from having to sit in actual classrooms with any actual blacks students, except for the rare intelligent, well-behaved blacks that no one would mind their child attending school with.

In contrast, when busing was orderd, non-Jewish whites had to flee the city in order to escape its consequences. Jewish neighborhoods were preserved. Christian neighborhoods were not. I am not saying this was the intent, but it was certainly the effect.

SFG said...

"Smart ambitious Chinese girls are all looking for Jewish men.

And your understanding of what smart ambitious Chinese girls are looking for is based on what, exactly?"

Spend enough time in the upper-income areas of blue states and you'll see it's true. There are actually quite a few commonalities. The Chinese, without a religious distaste for usury or commerce, think the Jewish affinity for money is quite admirable and there are even books in Chinese discussing the business secrets of the Talmud--there's even a Talmud Business Hotel!

The Chinese are quite practical when it comes to picking mates--they go for money, and Jews have that.

Additionally, I've been told by American-born Chinese women that some of them prefer white guys (Jewish or otherwise) because we're nicer--the Asians like to boss them around and expect a 'traditional relationship'.

A Chinese-American friend also told me that a Jew was preferred if you couldn't get a Chinese girl--they still have values such as studiousness, etc. lacking in the white majority.

(He also told me that he felt the Holocaust was hyped up because, in his words, "white people got killed!")

Camlost said...

Atlanta is pretty safe and prosperous, but has a very large black population and is majority minority.

Ummm, I live here in Atlanta, and no it is NOT safe.

http://www.walletpop.com/2010/10/04/25-most-dangerous-neighborhoods-2010/?icid=main|main|dl3|sec1_lnk3|175093

Gaurav Ahuja said...

"Smart ambitious Chinese girls are all looking for Jewish men." Maybe, a few of them are but I have not seen such high numbers to corroborate this fact. Staten Island and the rest of New York City are not even close to having the White numbers are reported. Remember, there are many people who are of South Asian, Middle Eastern, and mestizo origin that report themselves as White or Caucasian. This inflates the number very heavily. Williamsburg is still relatively terrible. The crime is not as bad as it used to be, but there are still a lot of other horrible things about that area even with the gentrification. Crime is just one of many factors to take into account when looking at an area.

Simon in London said...

I wrote:
"As a white visiting the US I quickly noticed that Northern blacks showed far more hostility to me than did Northern blacks"

Should have been "than did Southern blacks"

Silver said...


Alicia, her five illegitimate kids from different men, and live-in boyfriend Raphael now occupy Ralph and Alice's apartment at 358 Chauncey St. in Bensonhurst. But nothing interesting happens there anymore, except fist fights, noisy procreation, beer drinking, TV watching, and trash being dumped out the kitchen window. Occasionally Normando comes down the fire escape and tries to steal the flat screen TV when everyone is passed out on heroin. Later, Raphael will slice him up with a razor at the pool hall.


Paging RKU!

Latinos (in the US, at any rate) are no way near as crime prone as the average WN appears to believe. There is city after city after city showing a tremendous decline in crime all the while growing more hispanic. That isn't to say latinos are reducing crime -- except perhaps where they are displacing blacks -- only that that there's no really good evidence of some massive hispanic crime wave, certainly no good evidence to justify the sort of hysteria you see in certain WNs.

Steve, have you ever given much thought to the decline in crime in Portland? Portland had incredibly high property crime rates during the 80s and while still very white today was even whiter 25 years ago, so it would seem that whiteness itself isn't a guarantor of not seeing non-whites-at-their-worst levels of crime.

Check this out:

1986
Burglary rate: 4678
Larceny/theft rate: 9695
Theft of motor vehicle: 1000

Also,
Robbery: 1000. Astounding for such a white town; trust me, it never gets that high in predominantly white cities.

Wow.

That's almost Brazil-like.

Detroit the same year:
Burglary: 3500
Larceny/theft:3800
Theft of motor vehicle: 2900 (Portland peaked at 2000 in '88)
Robbery:1500

Detroit of course had a vastly greater murder rate and its possible that Detroiters aren't as likely to report petty theft, so the real theft rate for Detroit may be much higher. On the other hand police preoccupied with serious crime may not put as much effort into solving or preventing less serious crime, which could potentially boost the rate of such crimes.

Source: http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/Crime.cfm

ben tillman said...

...from my observations as a Yankee and non-native resident Dallasite.... City politics are deeply divided between black south side and white north side. (I guess not enough Latinos vote to count.)

This is Dallas – we don’t have any “Latinos” here. Just Mexicans or Hispanics.

Whites here are conservative and not interested in paying huge taxes to subsidize blacks, so most blacks are not as well off as in the north.

Are you sure about that? Their housing is much nicer, and there’s no amount of money that can buy a warm day. And they feel less aggrieved and are happier for that reason as well.

Dallas city public schools plunged in white enrollment since desegregation and are now 95% + black and Hispanic. The northern suburbs are 90% + white and many whites would never live "south of 635."

And a lot of whites would never dream of living north of 635 among those gauche transplants.

There are just two "good" public elementary schools in Dallas proper, i.e. with a plurality of whites, and it costs real money to live in those zones.

I assume you’re excluding the four elementaries in the Park Cities, which are surrounded by the City of Dallas, but even in the Dallas itself there are three in my part of the city (White Rock, Merriman Park, and Moss Haven), where houses cost $250 to $300k. And you can get a two-BR apartment in University Park for $800 and send your kid to Bradfield Elementary while making $40,000 a year.

And crime is huge in Dallas and Houston too! Constant, constant reports of burglary, post-nightclub shootings and spectacular drunk-driving crashes (a Latino specialty). Every single homeowner has a burglar alarm system -- I hadn't seen that before. Whites are hugely anxious about crime. You can relax at ease in the "nice white" parts of Manhattan in a way that you can't in the "nice white" parts of Dallas because muggers come there too.

There is a lot of crime in Dallas (burglaries and shootings and crashes as you described), and people do generally have alarm systems, but mugging is not a problem. I sense that you haven’t spent much time in the nicer white parts of Dallas. There is a large area where you can feel totally relaxed.

Kylie said...

"Caribbean blacks do better economically here than traditional US blacks, though not by very much. Their attitude is noticeably better. The attitude of African blacks is better still."

I noticed the same pattern in the college town I lived in here in the Midwest.

Also, African blacks were leery of African-Americans, whom they considered to be too noisy and too violent. They mainly socialized with whites.

Simon in London said...

Jim Webb actually sent his son to a black-majority school, which is rare behaviour even for Southern whites. He definitely believes in the 'school of hard knocks'!

But my impression is that most white Southern men definitely don't have the extreme fear of blacks that seems to prevail among middle and upper middle class white Northern men.

BTW my wife used to live in Houston as a young woman with flatmates; the daily murder rate on the TV news was so high they used to play drinking games & morbid bets around it.

Ron Mexico said...

African americans are being driven from NYC by what exactly? Its hilarious to see this described as ethnic cleansing (if only milosevic had realized he could of cleansed bosnians by raising property values).

Most African Americans in NYC came north in the 1920s great migration, most have southern roots and moved north because of lynching, mass racial violence and economic discrimination, they're moving back south because that has ended, further like many Americans they probably prefer the climate.

High property values have transformed Manhattan and changed working class white (hell's kitchen, the west side) hispanic (alphabet city) and black neighborhoods into upper class areas, but NYC still has the largest black population of any city in America.
Further I think much of the population loss is less a product of being "driven out" and more a voluntary decision to leave. If you work on wall street or for a media company you have to live in New York and you'll have a high enough salary to ensure you can. If you work as a janitor or a mechanic you could live anywhere in American and if your a black NYC resident why not move to an area where there will be a lower cost of living and better weather?

Anonymous said...

The hasidam, eg Chabad are making HUGE inroads in many areas of brooklyn and manhattan, its bad news for anyone who isn't Jewish.

Anonymous said...

My first reaction on reading your headline was, turnabout is fair play. My first impression, looking at the NYT article, was that the color-coding was purposefully chosen to obscure and confuse.

Anonymous said...

This Severn guy is a legend!

Have you got your own blog?

More Anon said...

So where can one find a good statistical breakdown of the white ethnic/religious demographics of the city's boroughs? Have there been any useful white ethnic stats since the 1970 census?

Anonymous said...

severn,
you ask a good question.

If you are interested in the preferences of young asian women, click on the the online dating sites.

what you will see is that young asian women from the high IQ ethnic groups (Chinese, Japanese and Korean) prefer to marry Ashkenazis

At the same time, young asian women from the low IQ ethnic groups (Philippines, etc) prefer to marry non Ashkenazi white males.

Anonymous said...

As Steve has pointed out, there is assertive mating by IQ in the US. What that means is that the higher IQ Asians tend to marry higher IQ whites and that lower IQ Asians tend to marry lower IQ whites.

As has often been discussed here, The average Ashkenazi has a higher IQ than the average non Ashkenazi white and thus assertive mating leads Ashkenazi males to marry high IQ Asian females.

Robert Lindsay's blog has a worthwhile discussion of the white survivalist community. The highest IQ white Christians tend to be economically successful. Low IQ whites feel "betrayed" or "left behind" by the high IQ white Christians. Low IQ whites sometimes turn to "white survivalism"

Let me be clear, the "white survivalist" worldview doesn't cause male white survivalists to marry low IQ asians, when you note the number of white survivalists married to low IQ asians you are seeing correlation, not causation.

For more insight in to the white survivalist zeitgeist I suggest reading "Majority Rights"

Anonymous said...

"Probably if the government stopped subsidizing NYC blacks through Section 8 vouchers and civil service jobs, 90% would be gone within a year or two."

If anything, section 8 vouchers are getting them to leave at a faster rate. It's nearly impossible to rent with a voucher in NYC now. So New Yorkers who get one tend to port it out of the region, often to the South.

"The New York fall in crime predated the ethnic cleansing of blacks, though. It was the fall in crime that encouraged whites to move in, property prices & rents went up, blacks sold to whites, or their landlords rerented to whites, and blacks moved to cheaper areas."

You are correct. This is clear in the crime and census data. Sailer had the cause and effect incorrect.

"Are southern blacks more easygoing than those up north?"

Atlanta has a lot of crime, and the city crime rate may be decieving because of the white influx and annexation of mostly white neighborhoods.
Though yes, southern blacks have lower crime rates than northern blacks.
It depends on the location... for instance some would call DC and Baltimore the south, but it has some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the country. New Orleans is another obvious hellhole.
But overall they're less criminal, on average. A big part of it may be that the % of blacks living in rural areas is much higher in the south.
Whites in the south, on the other hand, have higher crime rates than northern whites.

"A similar thing is going on in Chicago. Many parts of the city are whiter than they used to be."

Except many more parts of the city are getting less white than they used to be. They're just further from downtown so people don't talk about it.

Anonymous said...

"in practice what they always end up creating is a society with a wealthy cognitive elite lording it over a dirt poor, ignorant, and low skilled working class. NYC is a perfect example of this...

In flyover country we see this at events like the Sundance Film Festival, going on now in Park City, Utah. The hipster who made the film documenting the plight of halitosis sufferers in Poingo Poingo, as it turns out, is a complete asshole to the people he passes on the street. And don't get me started on the guys who make films about environmental desecration, whose lifestyles, as we all know, would singlehandedly kill a few dozen rain forests.

Anonymous said...

What is happening in New York is a microcosm for what is happening in cities across America as the Elites have figured out that they can tear down inner-city housing projects and disburse the underclass out to the suburbs via Section 8 vouchers and HUD in homes and apartments.

Its as if the Elites have said, "We want the city back", so we will just dump these undesirables on the working class out in suburbia. Let the underclass wreck their home values and the educatiosn of their children, while we shield our own kids in private schools and we retake "downtown", pushing up our own real-estate holdings value.

Its despicable in my opinion. I see it not only happening in the great city to my northwest, but its fingers are getting out to the out-of-county-suburb in which I live.

Carl said...

There is no such thing as a native born African American. Either you're a native born African or a native born American, you can't be both.

Mr. Anon said...

"agnostic said...

And at least whites in New York will finally be able to enjoy having a good whine about how bad the Mexican food is in the rest of the country."

Very droll.

Anonymous said...

Atlanta is pretty safe and prosperous, but has a very large black population and is majority minority.

Yikes! Atlanta is always running neck and neck with Washington DC as the violent crime capital of the country. The crime was once concentrated in the black areas on the south side. However, the city is becoming desegregated and now violent crime is becoming pervasive.

Anonymous said...

"Smart ambitious Chinese girls are all looking for Jewish men.

And your understanding of what smart ambitious Chinese girls are looking for is based on what, exactly?"

Based on many observations in my social circle in SF:

A smart ambitious Chinese girl comes to America looking for middle age Chinese man with property. She probably won't have a child with him but the divorce settlement will leave her with a tidy sum which she will use afterward to open up her own little high commission business or real estate agency. Then she will marry a younger Chinese man with an engineering degree.

Chinese women are often charmed by Jewish men on first meeting but quickly catch on that there's something not quite right about the way they look and behave. Like the Irish, the Chinese assign a great deal of value to physical appearance.

Steve Wood said...

The whiteness of Manhattan is almost jarring for anyone who remembers what the city looked like 20+ years ago.

I would say there's no "almost" about it. Even compared to the early 90s - when the city was already coming back from the low point of the 70s - Manhattan is amazingly white, and it's most noticeable in formerly marginal neighborhoods.

In areas like "Alphabet City," the far West Village, the uptown end of Chelsea - all areas that were still a bit sketchy 20 years ago - almost everyone you see is white or Asian. Well, actually, you do see black people, but they all fall into two categories: middle class, trendy, SWPL-except-not-white types, and workers who obviously do not live in the neighborhood.

This phenomenon is happening in Center City Philadelphia and other cities, too, but it's most striking in NY.

Dutch Boy said...

Truth said...
"it seems like a lot of white Southern conservatives don't mind having African-American neighbors."

LMAO. Just read 'Born Fighting' by Jum Webb, he had a great anecdote, ostensibly from his father;

(paraphrase) "Son one thing I've learned while traveling the U.S.: White people in the south don't mind blacks getting close, as long as they don't get rich; whites in the north don't mind black people getting rich, as long as they don't get close"!

That's a paraphrase of Dick Gregory's version: "In the South, they don't care how close you get, as long as you don't get too big; in the North, they don't care how big you get, as long as you don't get too close."

Svigor said...

Are southern blacks more easygoing than those up north? I'm just wondering, because it seems like a lot of white Southern conservatives don't mind having African-American neighbors.

In my experience, yes. Everyone down south is more easygoing. Yankees are hardasses.

It's also population density, gun laws, etc. There are "no-go" urban black areas in every southern city I've ever been in. But they're fairly tame by urban "no-go" standards, at least that's the impression I get. In rural areas, you have country blacks who are much more spread out and easy-going than the typical Hollywood south central vibe. And everyone knows the police aren't going to ask questions about the body laying in your doorway. They're going to haul it away and get on with life.

Population density is huge. You'll find people talking about gun laws all the time, but almost never hear them talking about population density.

ironrailsironweights said...

A similar thing is going on in Chicago. Many parts of the city are whiter than they used to be. You see a lot more white children than you did 20 years ago.

Something sort of similar is happening in New York. In Manhattan, at least, you'll see ample numbers of white infants and toddlers, however school-age white children are a much less common sight. It's obvious that many white parents leave for the suburbs or other parts of the country when their children are old enough for school.

Peter

Average Joe said...

American-born whites are resurgent across much of the more desirable central part of the city, especially recolonizing some convenient neighborhoods in northern Manhattan and northern Brooklyn

I think you mean American-born Jews are resurgent. Most white gentiles could not afford to live in these areas.

Anonyia said...

Southern blacks are easygoing in rural areas and small towns. In big or mid-sized cities, not so much. They are still surly as ever there, although there are of course middle class exceptions which comprise like 15-20 percent of the black pop in the South.
Black-white tensions are worse in some cities than others too. Tensions actually seem lowest in Mississippi, probably because there is only one major metro area.

But it's true that whites don't mind living around blacks, for the most part. Really horrible crimes aren't very common thankfully, but even in nice neighborhoods burglaries/property thefts occur with some frequency. I don't think I know anyone who's never had their car/house/garage broken into at some point.

Anonymous said...

Atlanta is one of the least segregated of all the major metros and also has one of the nation's most prosperous black populations. There are a lot of mostly black rich neighborhoods with lots of doctors, lawyers, business executives, dentists, etc. It also is gaining a lot of whites, both conservative and liberal. You've got a startlingly pleasant combination of well to do blacks, a growing white population, and racial harmony.

I'm sure places like Atlanta or Dallas have problems, but a lot of white conservatives prefer these cities to very white cities like Seattle, Portland, or Pittbsurgh. Atlanta seems to be especially popular with them.

ANybody have any opinions on Raleigh? I don't know anyone from there.

Steve Sailer said...

I saw somewhere that Atlanta's blacks have a fine college graduation rate of something like 24%.

TrashTalkinWifTrolls said...

Even these days, northern whites seem much more scared of blacks. A Southern good ole boy white will happily get in a bar brawl with a black; Northerners seem more likely to flee or surrender.

It's all about the juries. The Southern good ole boy is assuming he'll be acquitted of, or never charged with, the inevitable Nifong routine. The Northerner knows that he is in for a humiliation either way; if he beats down the Holy Blameless Blackman he'll just get it in prison anyway, after the hostile elites convict him in the press.

Anonymous said...

"Smart ambitious Chinese girls are all looking for Jewish men."

I think you have it the other way around. Jewish men are crazy for Chinese girls.

Anonymous said...

"As Latin American immigrants move into traditionally African-American parts of New York City, tensions have increased between the groups and occasionally result in violence."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqp07hITcRo

Anonymous said...

"but NYC still has the largest black population of any city in America. "

What a surprise, considering it has by far the largest population of any city in America. In percentage it's down to 25% from a high of 29% just 20 years ago. Comparing that to the other major Northeastern cities, that's pretty low. Even Boston is over 20% black.

"If you work as a janitor or a mechanic you could live anywhere in American and if your a black NYC resident why not move to an area where there will be a lower cost of living and better weather?"

And the cost of living has raised drastically in the poorer parts of NYC mostly due to housing costs increases. How voluntary is it if a person leaves because they cannot afford the drastic increases in rent?

"The hasidam, eg Chabad are making HUGE inroads in many areas of brooklyn and manhattan, its bad news for anyone who isn't Jewish."

All the while secular Jews are leaving, dying, and not reproducing in NYC or anywhere else in the USA.
Hasidics actually vote Republican...

"So where can one find a good statistical breakdown of the white ethnic/religious demographics of the city's boroughs? Have there been any useful white ethnic stats since the 1970 census?"

The US census website is very useful not just for plain numbers but also thematic maps of demographics.
socialexplorer.com also has their own version of a race map from 1910 for NYC. http://www.socialexplorer.com/pub/maps/map3.aspx?g=1&animation=true

Simon in London said...

"It's all about the juries. The Southern good ole boy is assuming he'll be acquitted of, or never charged with, the inevitable Nifong routine."

Yeah, this happened to my good ole boy brother in law and he was never charged, he just spent a night in the cells - and I think that was more because his buddy bad-mouthed the cop. Being in the catch-wagon with a bunch of criminal and/or similarly-drunken blacks did make the pair of them wary, though.

Anonymous said...

""A similar thing is going on in Chicago. Many parts of the city are whiter than they used to be."

Except many more parts of the city are getting less white than they used to be. They're just further from downtown so people don't talk about it."

The south suburbs are getting blacker, but which city neighborhoods are you referring to?

Anonymous said...

NYC Summary of Vital Statistics, 2009:

"Since 1990, births declined 36% among non-Hispanic black mothers to 27,405 in 2009 and increased 43% among Asian and Pacific Islanders to 17,729 in 2009. On the other hand, births to non-Hispanic white women and Hispanics have remained relatively stable with a 1% and 9% decline, respectively, since 1990."

http://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/2009sum.pdf

To recap: blacks down by 36%, Hispanics down by 9%, Whites down by 1%, Asians up by 43%. Obviously, this mostly reflects population movements, not changes in TFRs. By the way, census numbers are notoriously inexact. A lot of people don't mail back their forms. Birth and death statistics like the ones quoted above are far more trustworthy since almost all births and deaths are still registered by authorities.

Anonymous said...

It's apparent that in coastal cities, white guys are intimidated by blacks. Recently I was riding on a bus and saw a group of white guys in their 20s chatting loudly. Two black guys boarded and sat nearby. There was an immediate change in the composure of the whites who became silent and uncomfortable looking.

Anonymous said...

How much black-Latino exists in New York? It seems like blacks get along pretty well with the Dominicans and Puerto Ricans. You don't read much about tension among these groups, which is in contrast to the very apparent racial tensions of Los Angeles county and southern California.

I was reading about tensions in Staten Island, but those mainly involved blacks and Mexicans. Not Nuyoricans.

Average Joe said...

Jewish men are crazy for Chinese girls

Actually it seems that Jewish men are crazy for any non-Jewish girls.

Anthony said...

"Son one thing I've learned while traveling the U.S.: White people in the south don't mind blacks getting close, as long as they don't get rich; whites in the north don't mind black people getting rich, as long as they don't get close"!

I'd heard this as "uppity" instead of "rich". Haven't spent much time in the South, so I can't vouch for the truth of it.

Also - have you ever noticed that the only people who support gun control are liberals who live near blacks?

Average Joe said...

The average Ashkenazi has a higher IQ than the average non Ashkenazi white and thus assertive mating leads Ashkenazi males to marry high IQ Asian females

How come Ashkenazi Jewish males don't want to marry Ashkenazi Jewish females?

Average Joe said...

what you will see is that young asian women from the high IQ ethnic groups (Chinese, Japanese and Korean) prefer to marry Ashkenazis

I think the Chinese, Japanese and Korean women prefer to marry men with money. An Ashkenazi Jewish male with a low income would have a hard time getting an Asian wife of any IQ.

Svigor said...

Robert Lindsay's blog has a worthwhile discussion of the white survivalist community. The highest IQ white Christians tend to be economically successful. Low IQ whites feel "betrayed" or "left behind" by the high IQ white Christians. Low IQ whites sometimes turn to "white survivalism"

Survey says - WNs are high IQ, not low.

peter A said...

"Jewish men are crazy for Chinese girls."

Yeah, well that goes without saying...

Anonymous said...

John Derbyshire is a very high IQ white Christian race realist. Derbyshire married a high IQ northeast Asian.

Northeast Asian females tend to marry white males with high IQ. This means you will find them marrying Ashkenazi, you will find them marrying high IQ race realists like Derb, you will find them marrying high IQ whites that are apathetic about racial issues. The only constant is assortive mating by IQ.

If you click over to Stormfront it will be clear to you that among Stormfront readers it is much more common to marry low IQ asians than it is to marry high IQ asians.

As always, Steve Sailer's concept of assortive mating by IQ explains a lot of things that are otherwise impossible to explain.

SFG said...

"Actually it seems that Jewish men are crazy for any non-Jewish girls."

"How come Ashkenazi Jewish males don't want to marry Ashkenazi Jewish females?"

Look, Betty Friedan. Gloria Steinem. You do the math.

Anonymous said...

"How come Ashkenazi Jewish males don't want to marry Ashkenazi Jewish females?"

Ashkenazi Jewish males are smart; i.e., too smart to put up with the demographic that defined "high-maintenance". Jewesses can be hot, but not more so than any other demo, but they are ridiculously full of themselves.

Camlost said...

There are a lot of mostly black rich neighborhoods with lots of doctors, lawyers, business executives, dentists, etc.

Ummm, no. I live here. so I know.

The nicest majority black areas are in Southwest Dekalb County, near Lithonia, or near Stone Mountain - but no one in their right mind would call them "nice" by white standards. Schools are still bad and crime is still pervasive and at the end of the day blacks still have 72% illegitimacy rates.

In these nearly 100% black suburbs you may assume that they are "nice" because you don't see they type of crime that you'd see in a northern-style housing project due to less density, but there's not a high enough percentage of high-salary, high-IQ, two parent homes to anchor the culture that it takes to foster "good" school. You usually have a single mom with a decent government job raising 3 kids who ultimately achieve less than her. Call it the "John Ogbu effect."

The best majority black school in the Atlanta metro is Stephenson High in Stone Mountain (3% white/asian), and it has a very unimpressive SAT average of about 874 on the old scale. It also has the highest average black income (by far) of any public high school in Georgia.

ben tillman said...

In the Southern city where I lived for a few years there was a Jewish section of town where all the synagogues, temples, yeshiva, etc. were located. The city had mandatory busing but, coincidentally - coincidentally! - the neighborhood schools had magnet programs that kept the local kids from having to sit in actual classrooms with any actual blacks students, except for the rare intelligent, well-behaved blacks that no one would mind their child attending school with.

You lived in Memphis.

Anonymous said...

Right. Gentrification is mainly happening in the more desirable sections of the cities. Most other urban areas are seeing no shift or immigrants (primarily Latino and sometimes Asians) are pushing out blacks. A lot of minorities are headed for the inner suburbs too and sometimes even the exurbs. It's easier to afford a big house and a lawn out there, which you can't in San Francisco or Manhattan.

Even when whites move into an area, they tend to be hipsters or gays or yuppies. A place like Manhattan is filling up with these types, but then white ethnics are seeing their majority diminish in more conservative Staten Island and Bensonhurst. In Southie (Boston), which is super white ethnic, a lot of the Irish guys are being driven out by the gay and yuppie gentrifiers.

Neighborhood demographics don't always match school demographics. I've seen a lot of affluent white urban neighborhoods with predominately NAM local schools. I'm not sure if the local whites are childless or old or utilize private schools (probably a combination of all these), but it's surprising when an overhwelmingly white SF neighborhood has lots of Hispanics and blacks in the local schools.

Truth said...

"There is no such thing as a native born African American. Either you're a native born African or a native born American, you can't be both."

So I take it there's on such thing as a native born Italian-American either?

Anonymous said...

"What is happening in New York is a microcosm for what is happening in cities across America as the Elites have figured out that they can tear down inner-city housing projects and disburse the underclass out to the suburbs via Section 8 vouchers and HUD in homes and apartments."

My community has been destroyed by section 8 vouchers. It began happening under Clinton's HUD guy, Henry Cisneros. It was his idea to take the perennially lazy and dysfunctional out of urban housing areas and ship them out to the suburbs. It has destroyed our schools as well.

ironrailsironweights said...

The picture looks even worse if you lump the Caribbeans (i.e. Dominican and Puerto Rican) with African-Americans, since most of them are mostly African by blood.

Dominicans, perhaps, but not Puerto Ricans. I don't know what DNA results may say, but based on physical appearance I would guess that the average Puerto Rican is maybe one-quarter African or even less. Of course there is much variation from person to person.

Peter

Anonymous said...

How come Ashkenazi Jewish males don't want to marry Ashkenazi Jewish females?

The JAP (Jewish American Princess) phenomenon. Many will stay within the religion, but a majority outmarry.

Charlesz Martel said...

Here is the article on crime and section 8 messing up the suburbs:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/6872/

I believe Steve commented on this at the time. Plus ca change.....

sabril said...

"Actually it seems that Jewish men are crazy for any non-Jewish girls."

Any more than men in general are crazy for girls in general? I haven't noticed it.

In fact, I would guess that the Jewish intermarriage rate is a good deal less than what you would expect if people chose their spouses without regards to race or religion.

But I would be interested to see your evidence, for example match.com response rates.

Anonymous said...

Steve,
yes, you are correct. African Americans are indeed being driven out of New York.

But this is part of a larger trend, with lower IQ groups being driven out of almost all highly coveted places in America.

Indeed, what do you think happened to the low IQ white people that used to live in Aspen? All gone now.

Venice, California used to be filled with low IQ dregs of all races, but the price of land has gone up 5X in the past 20 years and many of the lower IQ people can't afford to live there anymore.

On the same subject, Steve have you viewed "Animal Kingdom" A spectacular Australian movie about a family of white people in Melbourne who murder police officers? In the movie a law abiding family in their neighborhood allows their teenage daughter to date a teenage member of the family of cop killers, with the result being that the teenage daugher winds up murdered herself.

The point being, there are good reasons for high IQ whites to not want to live near low IQ whites.

Reg C├Žsar said...

It's really stomach-turning that New York City is thriving and "blanching" (i.e., whitening), while New York State experiences the opposite, despite having a less hostile business climate. (Than the city, not other states!)

Finance, media and similar "industries" which dominate the city appear to be immune to even the worst business climates. Perhaps that's due to their relative exemption from local regulation.

But the economy of the more normal 60% (of the population; 98% of the land) north of the Tappan Zee has been bleeding for decades. They're much more vulnerable to the whims of Albany.

Anonymous said...

I think it's a pretty commonly noted phenomenon that Jewish men (especially in New York) have a huge thing for Chinese women. It was even a Seinfeld episode. So I think asking for evidence from analysis of match.com data to support such a non-controversial statement shows some kind of defensiveness on your part. Is there some ego issue over Jewish women being displaced in the free market?

Anonymous said...

I wonder what Malcolm Gladwell, the out-and-out-liar, has to say about this.
But I'm sure his kind know all about all about how light-skinned 'blacks' maintained their oasis of power in an ocean of blacks. Come to think of it, that's probably why white NY liberals like him so. He qualifies as 'black' but is really one of them.

Average Joe said...

Sabril:

Check out this link:

http://matzav.com/intermarriage-rates-among-diaspora-jews-at-all-time-high

Quote: "While in the United States 55% of all Jews married non-Jewish partners, intermarriage rates in Australia, Canada and Turkey fluctuate between 25%-30%.

An intermarriage rate of 35%-45% was recorded among the Jewish Diaspora in France, Britain and most of Latin America.

The study revealed much higher figures in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union, where 65% of Jews exchanged nuptials with non Jews, while Russia came out on top of the list with a 75% rate of intermarriage.

Mexico, on the other hand, recorded the lowest level of intermarriage, with only 15% of Jews marrying outside of their faith."

Fred said...

"How come Ashkenazi Jewish males don't want to marry Ashkenazi Jewish females?"

About half do, which is why sites like Jdate are so popular. A plus of marrying an Asian girl is it will give some hybrid vigor to the kids. And since most Chinese don't have any strong religious traditions, they usually won't have a problem raising the kids as Jews.

sabril said...

"I think it's a pretty commonly noted phenomenon that Jewish men (especially in New York) have a huge thing for Chinese women"

I'm willing to accept this is likely true, and not just for Jewish men. In my experience, European-descended men who are somewhat educated,intellectual,and (I hate to use this word) beta,
tend to have a thing for Oriental girls. This applies to Jewish and Gentile men.

It makes sense, since our hypothetical nerd is of higher value to the girl and her family.

But that's not the claim I was questioning. The claim on the table is that "Jewish men are crazy for any non-Jewish girls" That includes a lot of girls besides Chinese.

"in the United States 55% of all Jews married non-Jewish partners"

So American Jews are at least 10 times more likely to marry another Jew than would be expected by chance, agreed?

ben tillman said...

Ashkenazi Jewish males are smart; i.e., too smart to put up with the demographic that defined "high-maintenance". Jewesses can be hot, but not more so than any other demo, but they are ridiculously full of themselves.

Which isn't much of a drawback. In fact, it's entertaining.

Anonymous said...

Finance, media and similar "industries" which dominate the city appear to be immune to even the worst business climates.

It doesn't hurt matters when a Ben Bernanke can invent trillions of dollars out of thin air [and funnel them through a Fed Governor Tim Geithner*] to keep you from going bankrupt.

Normal folks just don't have access to a line of credit like that.

But the economy of the more normal 60% (of the population; 98% of the land) north of the Tappan Zee has been bleeding for decades.

Yeah, the part of the state - IBM, Kodak, Grumman, Dow Corning, GE - which actually produced something of real, tangible value.



*Son of Stanley Ann Dunham's mentor, Peter Geithner.

Anonymous said...

"The south suburbs are getting blacker, but which city neighborhoods are you referring to?"

Too many to list? Almost all the south, southwest, and northwest sides.
http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/su/maps/citywhitechange.jpg
Many of the inner ring suburbs are starting to go now too.

Marc B said...

"Are southern blacks more easygoing than those up north?"

Southerners of all races are more polite and pleasant than their counterparts in the rest of the US, but Southern blacks residing in urban centers where they realize their strength in numbers are less friendly and far more dismissive or rude to whites than in the past.

"I'm just wondering, because it seems like a lot of white Southern conservatives don't mind having African-American neighbors."

Not as long as they are bougie blacks. It's the upper-class black neighbor's uncouth friends and family members that usually follow them into an area with their ghetto ways that they don't want ruining their neighborhood.

Severn said...

Quote: "While in the United States 55% of all Jews married non-Jewish partners, intermarriage rates in Australia, Canada and Turkey fluctuate between 25%-30%.


Intermarriage by Jews is meaningless concept, since Jews are not a distinct ethnic group to begin with. It might be an exaggeration to say that anyone can be a Jew if they want, but its not much of one. It's an ideological disposition, not a genetic one.

If you think about if for even a moment it's obvious that this is true. What makes Tim Wise "Jewish"? Basically, it's that he wants to be. Why is Harrison Ford not Jewish? He chose not to be. That is, he chose not to adapt the Jewish view of the world. And to reject that is to reject Jewishness root and branch.

Severn said...

A plus of marrying an Asian girl is it will give some hybrid vigor to the kids. And since most Chinese don't have any strong religious traditions, they usually won't have a problem raising the kids as Jews.

And by "raising the kids as Jews" you do NOT mean having them read Torah. You mean thinking of themselves as Jews, as members of an elite, as people apart. That's an attitude which comes easily to many Asians to begin with.

Severn said...

John Derbyshire is a very high IQ white Christian race realist.

Ok.

Derbyshire married a high IQ northeast Asian.

Is there any evidence for this other than the peculiar HBD belief that all northeast Asians are high IQ by definition?

ironrailsironweights said...

But the economy of the more normal 60% (of the population; 98% of the land) north of the Tappan Zee has been bleeding for decades. They're much more vulnerable to the whims of Albany.

The Tappan Zee Bridge is a bit too far south to serve as New York State's upstate/downstate dividing line. A line drawn about 15 to 20 miles north of I-84 would be a better choice.

Peter

corvinus said...

It's apparent that in coastal cities, white guys are intimidated by blacks. Recently I was riding on a bus and saw a group of white guys in their 20s chatting loudly. Two black guys boarded and sat nearby. There was an immediate change in the composure of the whites who became silent and uncomfortable looking.

I think it has something to do with how liberal the white guys are. Conservative white guys (like Southerners, but in other parts of the country too) paradoxically get along better with blacks one-on-one, and are less afraid of them, whereas liberals, despite their holier-than-thou attitude toward other more realistic whites, seem to think of blacks they meet in the flesh as rather dangerous animals. I've noticed this attitude over and over wherever I've traveled.

"How come Ashkenazi Jewish males don't want to marry Ashkenazi Jewish females?"

Ashkenazi Jewish males are smart; i.e., too smart to put up with the demographic that defined "high-maintenance". Jewesses can be hot, but not more so than any other demo, but they are ridiculously full of themselves.


The orthodox Jews do all the breeding in that group, keeping the population stable, I guess. Jewish intra-marriage (i.e., with other Jews) otherwise seems to be mainly assortative high-IQ mating, more than anything.

Dominicans, perhaps, but not Puerto Ricans. I don't know what DNA results may say, but based on physical appearance I would guess that the average Puerto Rican is maybe one-quarter African or even less. Of course there is much variation from person to person.

Puerto Ricans are actually a more-or-less equally triracial blend of European, African, and Amerindian. Dominicans are mostly African, and somewhat less so than black Americans.

Half Sigma said...

"Staten Island is 2/3 white. A lot of white Italians and other ethnics have fled other parts of NYC, like Bensonhurst and the Bronx, for Staten Island."

The "whites" in Staten Island behave almost as poorly as black people. I'd say that Staten Island has the lowest class of white people anywhere in the country.

Anonymous said...

How anti-semitic is Russia exactly? I always got an impression that it was much more problematic than the United States, but a 75% intermarriage rate is really high.

josh said...

Re Whitey Lawful:"I'll take a native black over a foreign white." Uhmm...take for what purpose?:0 C'mon Whiskey,is this one of your nom de plumes???

Fred said...

"And by "raising the kids as Jews" you do NOT mean having them read Torah. You mean thinking of themselves as Jews, as members of an elite, as people apart."

No, they would read the Torah. Can't have a Bar or Bat Mitzvah without doing that. If the parents wanted them to think of themselves as "people apart" then they'd have them read Kevin MacDonald instead.

Average Joe said...

About half do, which is why sites like Jdate are so popular

I think you may be wrong about this Fred. Around half of all Ashkenazi Jews in the United States intermarry with gentiles. Now, from what I understand, the vast majority of these unions are Jewish male/gentile female, meaning that the majority of Jewish men are seeking a gentile wife. Jdate, again from what I understand, is much more popular with Jewish women than with Jewish men since Jewish women are much more likely to want to marry within their faith.

Fred said...

Shedding some light on Dominicans and Puerto Ricans for the uninitiated:

Racially, there is a range for both groups -- there are some Puerto Ricans and Dominicans who look indistinguishable from African Americans, and there are some who look like dark-complexioned Caucasians -- but Dominicans are darker on average.

Culturally, Puerto Ricans are much closer to African Americans.

JSM said...

The "whites" in Staten Island behave almost as poorly as black people. I'd say that Staten Island has the lowest class of white people anywhere in the country."

And coming from *you* who sees a prole behind every tree, that's saying a lot.

Fred said...

I don't think so, Average Joe. As with most dating sites, I'm pretty sure the men outnumber the women on Jdate. At least that was the case when I was on it.

I don't know the percentages of Jewish men marrying out of the faith vs. Jewish women. If you have a link on that feel free to share.

Svigor said...

So American Jews are at least 10 times more likely to marry another Jew than would be expected by chance, agreed?

Thank you for that bit of honesty (though I don't know if your math is right). It gets soooooo OOOOLLLLD, Jews wielding their "intermarriage (Caucasoids marrying other Caucasoids) rate when it's about half the rate of other Caucasoids in America; one minute it's a warning to co-ethnics, the next it's "proof" of how un-ethnocentric they are. YUCK. Kudos on having some dignity.

travis said...

On the same subject, Steve have you viewed "Animal Kingdom" A spectacular Australian movie about a family of white people in Melbourne who murder police officers? In the movie a law abiding family in their neighborhood allows their teenage daughter to date a teenage member of the family of cop killers, with the result being that the teenage daugher winds up murdered herself.

The point being, there are good reasons for high IQ whites to not want to live near low IQ whites.


That was the point of the movie? Then why was Ben Mendelsohn's dumb character so captivating in "Animal Kingdom"? Or Christian Bale's in "The Fighter"? Or Jeremy Renner's in "The Town"? or John Hawkes' in "Winter's Bone"?

Anonymous said...

The majority of whites on Staten Island have Italian ancestry. The brash, trash talking culture of Sicily has been transported to that borough. You see that with the guido juiceheads. A lot of the representations of Italians in cinema and tv (Rocky Balboa, Vito Corleone, the Fonz) are a depiction of the machismo that's always been associated with them.

East coast Italian and Irish ethnics are unpleasant and street tough enough that they even intimidate NAMs away from their neighborhoods. That's partly why whites have hung on in areas like SI and Southie.

IHTG said...

"Mexico, on the other hand, recorded the lowest level of intermarriage, with only 15% of Jews marrying outside of their faith."

Most of the Jews in Mexico are of Syrian descent. Rather insular folk, like their New York brethren.

Severn said...

No, they would read the Torah. Can't have a Bar or Bat Mitzvah without doing that.


Not a lot of half-Asian kids having a Bar or Bat Mitzvah. Hell, even the "pure" Jews are increasingly opting out of those ceremonies.

RKU said...

It's apparent that in coastal cities, white guys are intimidated by blacks.

"corvinus": I think it has something to do with how liberal the white guys are. Conservative white guys (like Southerners, but in other parts of the country too) paradoxically get along better with blacks one-on-one, and are less afraid of them, whereas liberals, despite their holier-than-thou attitude toward other more realistic whites, seem to think of blacks they meet in the flesh as rather dangerous animals.

Actually, I think reality also has something to do with it. Based on the imprisonment statistics, Southern whites have vastly higher rates of violent crime than most Northern whites. For example, relative to their age distribution, whites in states like Georgia, Texas, or Florida are around 300% or even 400% more likely to be behind bars than whites in states like Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey, or New York. So the crime/violence gap between blacks and whites in the South in just a fraction of what it is between blacks and whites in the North.

sabril said...

"Thank you for that bit of honesty "

Ummm, you are welcome I guess. My main point is that Jewish men don't seem to be particularly repulsed by Jewish girls.

Joey said...

Interesting that they label the part that is white as "least diverse", but don't bother making such claims about minority populated areas.....

Fred said...

"Not a lot of half-Asian kids having a Bar or Bat Mitzvah. Hell, even the "pure" Jews are increasingly opting out of those ceremonies."

Sure, Severn. Whatever you say.

Truth said...

'My main point is that Jewish men don't seem to be particularly repulsed by Jewish girls.'

Hey, there's a ringing endorsement.

Anonymous said...

"So the crime/violence gap between blacks and whites in the South in just a fraction of what it is between blacks and whites in the North."

Not really. Just because whites have higher crime rates in the South doesn't mean that the racial "violence gap" isn't still significant.

Anonymous said...

Didn't Steve Sailer write an article that showed the black-white incarceration disparity? I think the narrowest gap was in the south. Southern whites tend to be more criminalistic and southern blacks are less so, compared to their national averages.

Hispanics in the northeast (Pennsylvania, New York, New England, Jersey) were the most criminalistic. That may reflect the large PR and Dominican population up there.

There are a lot of heavily black small towns in the south with low rates of serious violent crimes. Which is pretty good. I recall that after a major hurricane (post-Katrina) hit Mississpi, there was minimal looting in rural areas, including the areas with lots of blacks. There seems to be something to the idea that southern rural blacks are docile.

Simon in London said...

RKU:
"Actually, I think reality also has something to do with it. Based on the imprisonment statistics, Southern whites have vastly higher rates of violent crime than most Northern whites"

Southern whites may be "Born Fighting". OTOH I seem to remember La Griffe du Lion showing that the disparity in incarceration rates is due to different sentencing policy - if it's easy to go to jail, you take in more of the right side of the white violence bell curve, and the racial disparity is reduced. Liberal sentencing policy means only the most heinous criminals are jailed, which exaggerates the black-white disparity.

My impression is that while Southern whites are often ready to *fight* at the drop of a hat, they aren't much more likely to engage in eg street robbery than are Northern whites.

The UK has a similar violence gradient; southern English are less violent than northern English and the Celtic fringe; but there is much less of a variation in self-aggrandising criminality.

Thomas said...

"I think it's a pretty commonly noted phenomenon that Jewish men (especially in New York) have a huge thing for Chinese women"

- Evidently that phenomena has been around for quite a while
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaifeng_Jews

Also note that Derb said in one of his posts that nearly all the white guys he sees in China are either Germans or Jews....

"How come Ashkenazi Jewish males don't want to marry Ashkenazi Jewish females?"

Its not that they don't want to marry them, its that to catch a desirable Jewish women there's too much competition from other highly successful Jews who want a co-ethnic mate, and also want to ensure that their children are truly Jewish by convention (i.e. - have a Jewish mother). Similar to the problem that an average young guy of most races has when trying to woo a young woman of the same race. An average young Jewish male may have a BS degree from a 2nd tier school and a decent (by middle class standards) $50,000/yr job but be competing against other Jewish males with Ivy League credentials and 6 figure salaries. On the other hand, the average Jewish guy above looks quite attractive to a newly arrived Asian immigrant used to making $4000/yr and who wants a green card to stay in the US....

RKU said...

Simon in London: "the disparity in incarceration rates is due to different sentencing policy - if it's easy to go to jail, you take in more of the right side of the white violence bell curve, and the racial disparity is reduced."

Yes, I'm sure that's part of the reason, but it's not easy to distinguish between the impact of a state's harsher justice system and higher local crime rates. However, given that youthful whites in GA may be 300% more likely to be serving time than their counterparts in MA, it's difficult to believe that a good portion of this isn't also due to greater criminality.

Anonymous said...

You lived in Memphis."

You're certain this "solution" hasn't been created in any other Southern city?

Severn said...

Sure, Severn. Whatever you say.

Not one of your more lucid replies, Fred. If you have no response to make, don't respond.

Severn said...

RHU: given that youthful whites in GA may be 300% more likely to be serving time than their counterparts in MA ...

Perhaps for a change you can show your work or offer some cites. I don't believe that the data even exists by which such comparisons can be made.

Severn said...

Based on the imprisonment statistics, Southern whites have vastly higher rates of violent crime than most Northern whites.

Having looked up some statistics, I've confirmed that you are being disingenuous. It's true, as far as it goes, that "Southern whites" have higher rates of imprisonment than do "Northern whites", for some careful selection of "Southern" and "Northern".

Here is a link to a study by some lefties who you should trust. Go to Table 2.

Sure enough, Alabama has a white incarceration rate of 542 per 100,000, as opposed to 201 in Massachusetts. Of course it's also true that this is some very selective looking at data. Massachusetts is at the low end of the spectrum even for a "Northern" state.

If you look outside the states of the "Old South" and the North-east you see that there is no pattern at all. California, Michigan, and Nevada all have fairly high rates of white incarceration, as high or higher than that in South Carolina. The white incarceration rates in the states of Washington and West Virginia are identical.

Its true that white crime is lower in the north-east than in the south, but it's lower in the north-east than anywhere else in the country. And the south is comparable to the rest of the country outside the north-east.
You other thing you might notice - Hispanic crime rates are significantly higher than those for whites.

Anonymous said...

"That's partly why whites have hung on in areas like SI and Southie."

Yeah, I don't know about Southie, but there are very safe and white parts of Brooklyn that many blacks have always considered to dangerous to be in. They do get attacked on occasion... obviously the media eats it up, even if it's far more rare than a white person being beat up in the ghetto.

Simon in London said...

Severn:
"California... ...fairly high rates of white incarceration"

It occurs to me that the California prison industry seems dedicated to the mass production of as many neo-Nazi gangbangers as possible through the expedient of black-on-white prison rape.

I'm not sure where this social policy originated, any guesses?

Fred said...

"Not one of your more lucid replies, Fred. If you have no response to make, don't respond."

My response actually was lucid, to anyone with the most elementary grasp of sarcasm, but since you either didn't understand it (or don't know what "lucid" means) I'll make the same point more directly: I think your claim (that more and more Jews, half-Asian or otherwise, are opting out of Bar and Bat Mitzvahs) is b.s.

ATBOTL said...

"I've always wondered about this: Puerto Ricans tend to behave worse than you would guess from their appearance."

And Dominicans behave better than you would think.

A large percentage of Puerto Ricans have intermarried with whites and moved to the suburbs, leaving a rump of very badly behaved ones left in ghettos.

There are lots of black Hispanics in NYC too, including people from Central American countries like Honduras and Panama. Blacks and Hispanics here blend into each other because most Hispanics are part black and ape black behavior much more thoroughly than Mexicans in LA do. There isn't any real black/Hispanic racial tension here. I'm always surprised when I go outside of the northeast at how young Mexican Americans dress and talk so much more like white people than Hispanics where I'm from do. Sometimes, Puerto Ricans seem to be trying to act blacker than blacks do.

There are also a huge number of Peruvians and Ecuadoreans, who are much better behaved than Mexicans despite being Indians. People often confuse them with Mexicans.

Remember that all the recent immigration to NYC has caused a massive migration of blacks and Hispanics to areas 50-200 miles out from the city. They trashed many small cites in Eastern PA, upstate NY and Western MA.

Truth said...

"It occurs to me that the California prison industry seems dedicated to the mass production of as many neo-Nazi gangbangers as possible through the expedient of black-on-white prison rape."

And, uh, how exactly did these white men get into prison to be raped in the first place, the lottery?

ben tillman said...

However, given that youthful whites in GA may be 300% more likely to be serving time than their counterparts in MA, it's difficult to believe that a good portion of this isn't also due to greater criminality.

Surely part of it *is* due to that -- just read the first few pages of Boyd & Richerson's Not By Genes Alone: How Culture Transformed Human Evolution if you want to see your opinion validated. Those guys are almost always right. At the same time, however, much of it is due to different levels of tolerance for criminality and different thresholds for imprisonment.

Lagriffedulion discussed it here:

POLITICS, IMPRISONMENT AND RACE


And Steve (cited by La Griffe) discussed it here:

Imprisonment Rates Vary Wildly by Race

RKU said...

Severn: Having looked up some statistics, I've confirmed that you are being disingenuous. It's true, as far as it goes, that "Southern whites" have higher rates of imprisonment than do "Northern whites", for some careful selection of "Southern" and "Northern"...

Sure enough, Alabama has a white incarceration rate of 542 per 100,000, as opposed to 201 in Massachusetts. Of course it's also true that this is some very selective looking at data. Massachusetts is at the low end of the spectrum even for a "Northern" state.

If you look outside the states of the "Old South" and the North-east you see that there is no pattern at all. California, Michigan, and Nevada all have fairly high rates of white incarceration, as high or higher than that in South Carolina. The white incarceration rates in the states of Washington and West Virginia are identical.


You're being silly. I never claimed that *all* Southern states had much higher white incarceration rates than *all* Northern states, just that it was generally the case. And the data you cited completely confirms this---just focus on the large population states, since they obviously dominate the average. For example, big Southern states like TX, FL, and GA have much higher white incarceration rates than the national average, while the big Eastern or Mid-Western states such as NY, NJ, MA, IL, PA, and OH generally have white incarceration rates far below the national average. The only major exception is MI, which is exactly at the national average. CA, an extreme outlier, has a white incarceration rate somewhat above the national average, but still far below any big Southern state. Small states don't follow this pattern quite as strongly, but since they're small, they don't impact the aggregate numbers too much.

Actually, these numbers aren't that meaningful because the white age-distribution is so hugely different for different states, and old people don't commit much crime. However, once you adjust for age, the huge incarceration gap between Northern+Midwestern vs. Southern whites remains about as strong. And much more interestingly, the Hispanic vs. white imprisonment gap almost completely disappears. There was an article published a year or so ago which analyzed all of this in detail.

Getting back to my original point, if you ignore age-adjustments, and just look at the black/white imprisonment ratio, it's generally around 10-to-1 in the big Northeastern or Midwestern states, but more like 5-to-1 or even 3-to-1 in the big Southern states, which is exactly what I was claiming.

(Actually, one slight error on my part. I'd claimed that whites in big Southern states often had imprisonment rates "300% or even 400%" higher than whites in big Northern states. I was quoting from memory, and my figures were mistaken. If anyone looks at the big states in the statistics Severn located, you'll see that the actual white imprisonment difference is generally between 200% to 300%, and not even a factor of two for the whites of CA and MI. I stand corrected.)

Simon in London said...

RKU:
"And much more interestingly, the Hispanic vs. white imprisonment gap almost completely disappears"

I know that this (lack of Hispanic criminality) is a big thing of yours, vs the commonly quoted x3.3 times white rate. Thanks for explaining it's about age distribution. OTOH, aren't 2nd-3rd generation Latino immigrants more criminal than 1st gen? Won't that keep Latino crime rates high even as the population ages?

RKU said...

Simon in London: "OTOH, aren't 2nd-3rd generation Latino immigrants more criminal than 1st gen? Won't that keep Latino crime rates high even as the population ages?"

Well, the American-born Hispanic crime rates do seem somewhat higher, but the difference isn't remotely as huge as all those ridiculous "urban legends" floating around the Internet. Anyway, the native-born crime numbers empirically *cannot* be very high---a large majority of Hispanics in their peak crime years are already 2nd+ generation, and all the national crime numbers, especially in heavily Hispanic cities, have been plummeting for the last decade or two even while Hispanics have become increasingly American-born.

I hate cluttering up my comments with URLs, but I'll make an exception in this case, and provide a link to that article I mentioned above from last year which analyzed exactly this crime issue. It mostly focuses on Hispanic crime rates, but there's also has a chart showing the age-adjusted white imprisonment rates for the various state. The differences are absolutely gigantic, and follow a very strong Northern vs. Southern pattern: Crime Rates Article

Simon in London said...

RKU:
"The differences are absolutely gigantic, and follow a very strong Northern vs. Southern pattern: Crime Rates Article"

Thanks Ron. Re the Hispanic crime rate, it seems that Puerto Ricans resemble blacks, but most Hispanics are more like the broad global sweep of brownish-skinned people with ca 90 IQs, such as Indians or Pakistanis without the Islam, which encourages particularly bad behaviour.

Anonymous said...

"And Dominicans behave better than you would think."

That could only be written by someone without a lot of experience living with Dominicans.

Washington Heights is the noisiest, trashiest place in Manhattan, and it's not because of all the SWPL moving in. It's the Dominicans. Who, by the way, were effective at pushing out the Irish who had built that great nabe into what it was. I guess the Irish of the day didn't wan to put up with the hordes of crass, loud, Dominican shit-strewers that filled up and crapped-out that 'hood. All that's left of them moving out is the nice Catholic churches and some bars with Irish names. You want to see fucked up? Stand out in front of a Bodega in a Dominican nabe. Count the fuckheads who walk out of the store and while standing in front of the garbage can on the corner, throw their trash on the street. I don't see this nearly as much in harlem, and almost never in other hoods. Dominicans are trash and will cover their living spaces in their own filth and trash. I've seen it in DR, too.

This white middle class professional just moved from Washington Heights to Central Harlem and it's no contest: Dominicans are trash and I'd rather live in black Harlem than the Heights any day of the week.

Also, it's not, contrary to popular belief, the SWPLs killing Harlem. Take a walk over to Broadway on 145 and up to the Heights. Notice the cockroach culture of Dominicans and Mexicans swarming down from the north, spreading south into Harlem. Those parts of Harlem are noisier, messier, and full of multiples of the aggressive asshole types when compare with the more traditional "black harlem" streets to the east.

I'll take Sugar Hill over Washington Heights any day of the week. You'll get far more polite civilized nods in greeting in Harlem, while every Dominican on the street seems to think behaving like a complete asshole is the way to live. And that's across all ages, genders and classes, as far as I could tell.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of northern versus southern blacks...

Having grown up in a pretty safe New Orleans suburb in the 70s and 80s (parents from the city and thus openly race-realist, but i "knew better", LOL), my first dose of massive numbers of blacks was after moving into town to attend university.

Even considering my shock at black misbehavior in school dorms (e.g., "Why are they so loud? How can they study or sleep with all that noise? Will they keep dribbling those basketballs on my ceiling all night?!"), I found that the necessary and unavoidable interaction with blacks in the city, in busy day-lit public places, was generally tolerable and occasionally even friendly.

Moving to Washington D.C. in the early 90s, I was shocked again at the relatively bad, angry attitude of the blacks with whom I interacted. At the time I was a mild-mannered leftish sort of the "wrong race" and "wrong gender" who bent over backwards not to offend.

All of this is not to suggest that there weren't large numbers of feral blacks preying on each other and on whites at the time in New Orleans. This has not changed. Vast areas of my once-great hometown apparently still are no-go areas: article

-tactic