November 2, 2010

LINK FIXED: "Second generation immigrants in Europe are de-assimilating"

Here's an important post by Tino at Super-Economy on a new study giving employment rates in three big European countries. For example:
Germany

Native Men: 75.3%
First generation non-European immigrant Men: 68.5%
Second generation non-European immigrant Men: 53.9%

Much of the immigration to Europe can be characterized as welfare fraud.

32 comments:

crunchie said...

There is also much less old folks among the immigrants

Anonymous said...

There's plenty of evidence that immigrants continue to assimilate, how could they not?--yet, youst ignore this...

you will seek out exactly what you need to support your prejudices.

Outland said...

How inconvenient. Our leaders believe these immigrants will actually work their asses of to save the welfare state from imploding, because of the aging. Bummer.

Anonymous said...

Well, look, Islam used to be moderate. Now it's not. I dunno what happened, but the entire religion regressed.

jim said...

The Japanese solution seems to be best. Yes, a shrinking population means declining world power and influence. But someday Japan will wake up and decide to have babies again ... and Japan will still exist. They will have maintained cultural continuity through this decades long ennui they've suffered through.

By the time the Germans and Italians and English and French wake up and start having babies again ... their native cultures might be unrecognizable.

Bob said...

Low immigrant employment in Germany I don't think can be blamed on fraud, poor work ethic, or racism.

There are simply few open jobs in Germany, and ethnic Germans are usually much more qualified. And they are unemployed in large numbers too.

Also #2 on German employer hiring list behind ethnic Germans are EU immigrants from Poland, Hungary, and Portugal. The employment rate for non-EU immigrants in the private sector must look horrible.

Wandrin said...

The first wave of immigrants are a minority within an indigenous neighbourhood and so bend more to fit in.

As the original inhabitants are driven out through lack of access to housing and the increased violent crime that inevitably occurs when you put different ethnic groups in the same living space the later generations gradually grow up in an increasingly monocultural environment which is at least passively hostile to the host population.

The result of this is temporary forced assimilation followed by de-assimilation.

The only way to get actual assimilatuion is if immigration is small and slow enough such that immigrants never create minority-majority neighbourhoods.

==

A second reason is cultural.

A lot of immigrants come from countries where the government is so corrupt a culture has developed where everyone tries to work in the black economy. When immigrant numbers are low there isn't enough of a critical mass for this to develop but once whole neighbourhoods have been race-replaced then local businessmen will start to setup a shadow economy.

Once the shadow economy starts to take shape this has the two knock-on effects of reinforcing the de-assimilation and increasing the demand for more illegals to work in the sweatshops.

Anonymous said...

Another factor that needs to be taken into account with immigration is "Right of Return" policies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

Besides the obvious fact that these policies are explicitly "racist," how can a person of, say, Indian origin be fully German (say) if they -- and not their German hosts -- always has a racially based homeland to return to if things get tough?

Anthony said...

More evidence of a failure to assimilate: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/11/02/international/i062642D65.DTL Does "Romanian" mean Gypsy"?

Wandrin said...

"The Japanese solution seems to be best."

Yes. I hope for their sake they don't succumb to the multicult.

none of the above said...

How much is just regression to the mean? The first generation immigrants are quite different from the population back home--healthier and more risk-taking and harder working, for example. Their kids are more like the ones who stayed home.

Wandrin said...

Does "Romanian" mean Gypsy"?

Yes.

Pretty annoying for the actual Romanians obviously but further evidence that "racism" only exists going up the PC ethnic heirarchy.

Anonymous said...

jim: But someday Japan will wake up and decide to have babies again

Honest question: How the hell do you make an assertion like that?

Did the Athenians wake up and decide to make babies again?

Did the Spartans wake up and decide to make babies again?

Did the Syracusans wake up and decide to make babies again?

Did the Carthaginians wake up and decide to make babies again?

Did the Sassanids wake up and decide to make babies again?

Did the Romans wake up and decide to make babies again?

Extinction is the natural outcome for almost every culture, society, and civilization known to historians.

headache said...

Much of the immigration to Europe can be characterized as welfare fraud.


Yes, that's why they are slowly shutting down welfare, to the loss of the indigenous underclass.

Anonymous said...

Yo, your link in 'post' has an extra 'http://www.blogger.com' prepended, breaking the link.

It should be plain:

http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/10/second-generation-immigrants-in-europe.html

N Ackerman said...

The link to super economy blogspot isn't working (or wasn't when I tried it.

Captain Jack Aubrey said...

Interesting. What those figures also undermine is the claim that we need immigrants to fill jobs that 'natives won't do.' They aren't filling their jobs.

If we want to appeal to the welfare crowd for immigration enforcement the message we need to drive home is that we can only afford so many of them. The more who immigrate here, the less generous the benefits we can afford.

Anonymous said...

But Steve, as long as I can remember it has been hammered home, again, again and again by all sorts of people (including such 'intellectual elitist' as the WSJ and 'The Economist'), that mass 3rd world immigration is not only highly desirable but actually vitally indispenable and needed 'to fund welfare states, fund pensions and to provide much needed workers'.
Obviously this is all 100% pure prime-grade unadulterated bullshit, the opposite is true, mass 3rd world immigration DESTROYS economies.
So how did the blatant lie (and it is a blatant lie) gain such currency as to be the 'conventional wisdom'.Is it just merely intellectual flabbiness, or was there a hidden agenda?

Matt said...

Employment is probably not a great predictor of assimilation in the sense most people would think of it.

One of the things that always interests me on this question is how it's always kind of interesting how many folks in the Western states lionize public education as making people capable for the employment market and able to offer high value services, yet are shocked that randomly self selected people from poor countries without such things have less valuable labour.

Isn't this what those guys should expect?

And then you end up with the "sweet spot" of the next generation not having enough valuable labor (through education and innate endowments) yet unwilling to take on unskilled, non-valuable work (as they consider everyone in the state their fellow citizens who their lives should be measured against - not their parents or poor people from hot and dusty countries). And thus the situation.

I always wonder how much black market labour is taken into account with these things "Take money from cousin-brother and don't be tellings tax man yes?", but is just impenetrable due to the degree to which money is funnelled back to their fatherlands and the closed shop nature of these communities.

Anonymous said...

"jim: But someday Japan will wake up and decide to have babies again "

Honest question: How the hell do you make an assertion like that?

Did the Athenians wake up and decide to make babies again?

Did the Spartans wake up and decide to make babies again?

Did the Syracusans wake up and decide to make babies again?

Did the Carthaginians wake up and decide to make babies again?

Did the Sassanids wake up and decide to make babies again?

Did the Romans wake up and decide to make babies again?

Extinction is the natural outcome for almost every culture, society, and civilization known to historians.


You are not very bright, my fellow anon.

None of the societies you mentioned maintained their own racial homogeneity.

They all were either wiped out in military defeats, or they invaded/invited the world (as the USA is doing), or never had racial homogeneity to begin with.

Japan is making none of these mistakes; the USA defeated and occupied Japan, but didn't import millions of non-Japanese into Japan, and Japan isn't inviting them in, either. So, barring another military defeat which imposes multi-racial immigration on Japan, or a change in Japan's immigration policy voluntarily, Japan is fine. When population growth resumes in Japan, it will be Japanese population growth, not multi-racial population growth.

Have I mentioned already, fellow anon., that you are not very bright?

Anonymous said...

Another phenomenom, not much commented upon is that any 3rd world immigrants have an in-built conditioned hatred for whites, and therefore see exploiting white money as a 'virtue'.
Perhaps this is best seen amongst France's leery Arab population.The 1st generation, although they raised their kids by the fireside with tales of hating whitey, were pretty respectful (at least outwardly), raised at a time when the Frenchman was top-dog, they knew how to put on a show of subservience and to keep their heads down.
The next generation were frankly, young shits.Raised with an in built grieviance and hatred against whitey (and further nutured by jealousies about their low station and resentment of white contemporaries, they have largely lost any fear or respect for the white frenchman, and through deep unconscious motives act out their hatreds and resentments.
The results can be seen in periodic riots that wrack France.

Wandrin said...

"So, barring another military defeat which imposes multi-racial immigration on Japan, or a change in Japan's immigration policy voluntarily, Japan is fine."

Third option. Their immigration policy is changed against the will of the majority through stealthy manipulation of their media and politicians.

eh said...

Again, an all time classic link:

Revealed: the diversity that defines a nation

One in three Muslim homes have dependent children but no working adults.

CC-bLF said...

"white frenchman"

There was a time when, if you said "American," the audience took it for granted you were talking about White people.
Then the multicult got us by the short hairs such that, in order to make the population in America of slaves' descendents feel better, to show you mean the progeny of the founding stock, you have to say *White* American.
But now we have to specifically say *White* to convey that we mean actual, indigenous, Frenchmen?? Ah, geez.
Nobody has to say "Yellow" when talking about Chinese.
Just another data point in the ongoing colonization of White countries by non-Whites.

jstefano said...

I am a first generation immigrant in the U.S. and have observed that many of my counterparts are indeed a self-selected group of risk-takers and hard workers (with an ostentatious exception on the part of some of the "family reunification" beneficiaries). A lot of first generation immigrants use the people they left behind as a reference group and often feel quite better off than the latter. Second and third generation immigrants, however, often use the "native" population as a reference group and are often dissatisfied with their own status, (perceived) social milieu and (perceived) treatment at the hands of the majority. Some are also unimpressed with the lifestyle and achieved social status of their parents after years of work and are reluctant to follow in the footsteps. A lot of them have been raised amid "native" kids and have a sense of entitlement and equality that often does not jibe well with material reality.
Additionally, it is curious how minorities from very disparate homelands end up emulating the "dominant" minority in their adopted homeland. Second generation immigrants, especially, are more likely to exhibit solidarity with and adopt the culture of the (numerically or culturally) prevalent minority. That's how Russian second generation immigrants in Toronto end up dressing, talking, and acting like African American youth (often to the chagrin and consternation of their elders). In a globalized world where youth culture is heavily Americanized, we get the curious phenomenon of minorities worldwide adopting the language and grievances of American Blacks (oftentimes completely misplaced). Think Arabic rap and hip-hop in the suburbs of Paris and G-Unit baseball caps on Turks in Germany.

jstefano said...

I am a first generation immigrant in the U.S. and have observed that many of my counterparts are indeed a self-selected group of risk-takers and hard workers (with an ostentatious exception on the part of some of the "family reunification" beneficiaries). A lot of first generation immigrants use the people they left behind as a reference group and often feel quite better off than the latter. Second and third generation immigrants, however, often use the "native" population as a reference group and are often dissatisfied with their own status, (perceived) social milieu and (perceived) treatment at the hands of the majority. Some are also unimpressed with the lifestyle and achieved social status of their parents after years of work and are reluctant to follow in the footsteps. A lot of them have been raised amid "native" kids and have a sense of entitlement and equality that often does not jibe well with material reality.
Additionally, it is curious how minorities from very disparate homelands end up emulating the "dominant" minority in their adopted homeland. Second generation immigrants, especially, are more likely to exhibit solidarity with and adopt the culture of the (numerically or culturally) prevalent minority. That's how Russian second generation immigrants in Toronto end up dressing, talking, and acting like African American youth (often to the chagrin and consternation of their elders). In a globalized world where youth culture is heavily Americanized, we get the curious phenomenon of minorities worldwide adopting the language and grievances of American Blacks (oftentimes completely misplaced). Think Arabic rap and hip-hop in the suburbs of Paris and G-Unit baseball caps on Turks in Germany.

The Anti-Gnostic said...

I think the best metric for assimilation would be rates of out-marriage.

Wandrin said...

A sideways point is after an area becomes minority-majority all new arrivals into that area have nothing of the original culture to assimilate into.

Anonymous said...

Japan's birth rate will go back up eventually, as the children of families that value having children have their own children, and the population declines making things like housing less expensive.

Similar in the USA, the white birth rate eventually is going to go up. Childless liberals will die off and religious families will continue to multiply exponentially. At this rate, the USA will have +100 million Amish in what, a century or so?

Anonymous said...

Japanese culture is slowly changing as the younger men decline to work 100+ hour weeks, etc. If they avoid multiculturalism, and the cost of family formation gradually declines, as the cost of three-bedroom units declines, there is no reason to suppose that at some point, bigger families might make a comeback in Japan. Nearly every neighborhood in Japan is a Japanese neighborhood. They have some crime, but you don't have to pay a huge premium to get away from violent neighborhoods or unusable schools.

If countries in Europe raised their retirement age, or allowed tax-free half-time work after age 55, etc., they could solve a lot of their problems. Ease the pressure on the pension system while eliminating the need for dusky foreigners.

Wandrin said...

"I think the best metric for assimilation would be rates of out-marriage."

In blue-collar neighborhoods that have been swamped and colonized the rate of out-marriage is high but it's not proof of assimilation it's proof of conquest and colonization.

In the early days of white america were all the anglos with native american wives assimilating?

elvisd said...

In the early days of white america were all the anglos with native american wives assimilating?

They did. Their descendents are called "Okies".