July 15, 2010

"2030: Alternative Futures for the Jewish People"

From my VDARE.com column, which reviews the new book by the Israeli-American think tank known as the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute:
As a long-time admirer of Israel, I’ve come to envy especially the freedom of discussion that Israeli culture permits on fundamental questions of demographics.

Consider, for example, the new book 2030: Alternative Futures for the Jewish People [5 megabyte  PDF], which makes for eye-opening reading for anyone lulled by the pabulum of the American press. ... An intellectually serious effort, 2030 can serve as a template for all those thinking about improving the demographic prospects of their own peoples or parties.

For example, GOP leaders could read it and consider how its framework of analysis and its policy recommendations could be adapted to the task of growing more Republicans.

Founded in 2002, the Jerusalem-based Jewish People Policy Planning Institute has always been chaired by prominent Jewish-American diplomats. Its 2030 report was begun under Dennis Ross, chief U.S. negotiator at Bill Clinton’s failed Camp David 2 peace talks in 2000 between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Ross left JPPPI in 2009 to run the Obama Administration’s Iran policy. ...

Despite this American participation, the JPPPI is an offshoot of the Israeli government’s immigration arm, the Jewish Agency for Israel. (The  JPPPI’s #2 man is a former boss of Israeli military intelligence). It makes an annual presentation to the Israeli cabinet. And, because the JPPPI’s publications are not intended for non-Jewish audiences—this book has not, so far as I know, previously been reviewed in America outside the Jewish press—it suffers less from the timidity that emasculates intellectual discourse in America.

For example, the JPPPI’s 2030 observes:
“World Jewry today is at a historical zenith of absolute wealth creation. … one can say that Jewish wealth is higher than almost any other ethnic group worldwide.”

That’s not the kind of thing you read in the U.S. press every day…

It’s also informative to discover that the JPPPI views anti-Semitism at present “as a moral problem and an irritant, but not having any serious consequences.” ...

The 2030 project strives to identify the middle ground between the ephemeral and the permanent.

The JPPPI methodology is to boil the future down to merely A) internal factors (what it calls “Jewish Momentum” -- “quantity, quality, power, structures and leadership”) and B) external factors: “the well-worn notion of ‘good for the Jews or bad for the Jews.’”

This generates four alternative futures: “Thriving,” “Drifting,” “Defending,” and “Nightmare.” The think tank doesn’t try to predict which one will happen, but it does outline the various mechanisms pushing the global Jewish People in each direction.

If in 2030, Jews are self-confidently ethnocentric (have high Jewish Momentum) and the rest of the world loves them, then, according to the JPPPI, the Jewish People will be “Thriving”.

The opposite quadrant is called “Nightmare”—where Jews are both unpopular with outsiders and highly assimilated. Currently, Iran is the best (or worst) example of this.

The JPPPI classifies the American Jewish community as currently “Thriving” due to an extremely positive external climate for Jews in America and moderately high internal Jewish Momentum.

It worries, though, that Jews are so popular with other Americans that Jewish cohesiveness will be sapped over the next 20 years. A high rate of intermarriage could drive the American Jewish community into the Drifting quadrant, where “Demographic shifts including accelerated assimilation of the Jewish community in the US, and its decline relative to other groups in the US leads to decline in its political power.” ...

The opposite of “Drifting” is “Defending”—where Jews are besieged by anti-Semites, yet internally strong as a community. The JPPPI cites France, where Muslim immigration has led to pogrom-like incidents, as currently the closest to this alternative future.

The Jewish People Policy Planning Institute seems to prefer “Defending” to “Drifting”:
“While the Drifting future might be very pleasant and positive for Jews as individuals, it reflects an overall decline of the Jewish People as a whole. … a Defending alternative future demonstrates that even under strenuous external conditions, the Jewish People could become stronger.”

My review goes on to consider the demographic policy proposals of the JPPPI, which are analogous to my own for Republicans. Read the whole thing there and comment upon it below. 

59 comments:

Udolpho.com said...

I have never read such a viciouus, depraved, anti-Semitic screed in my life, Steve. You should be ashamed now that you have cast your lot with the mentally ill hatemongers!

Svigor said...

Jewry prefers "Defending" (hated and cohesive) to "Drifting" (loved but assimilating). When I point this stuff out, I'm a rabid "anti-semite."

Anonymous said...

Would the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute be for or against the creation of a European-American People Policy Planning Institute?

If groups like this are willing to be sympathetic to our demographic concerns, Im willing to be sympathetic to theirs. I do not believe in any of this "diversity for thee, but not for me" stuff. Fair is fair.





BTW---Would you like to look at an "alternative future for the American people?"

There is a drive to build a mosque (that has a Muslim-Brotherhood-reading list) in my very-All-American suburb. http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100715/NEWS01/7150325/Rutherford+mosque+supporters++opponents+face+off

A few months after Nadal Hasan's shooting of 31, and Faisal Shahzad's attempted truck-bombing in New York City, we are being called "intolerant" and "hateful" in the local Gannett-syndicate newspaper (Gannett has bought out all the newspapers around here, giving us leftwing journalism in a conservative area) for opposing a mega-mosque out here in fly-over country. Amazing.

Svigor said...

The problem for Republicans is that public policies, which they either support or are too stupid/ cowardly to oppose, have the inexorable demographic consequence of producing relatively fewer Republicans—or, to put it another way, fewer self-identified members of what might be termed “the American people”.

I think the Republicans are okay with this. They'd rather be a minority inside the tent, than out. And they're generally thoroughly liberal where it matters.

Arturo said...

That pink chart is pretty funny. . . These people rule the world?

Anonymous said...

How do American Jews prevent inter-marriage with the very nice white gentile population? They pay Foxman and Potok to scare them silly with tales of Neo-Nazis forming a Panzer Division and coming down Interstate-5, next week for sure.

Is there some (white) country anywhere that is free of this ? I want to emigrate there. To live in a country where I'm not the designated 'goat' of various minorities would be a fine thing. I've known nothing else all my life. I've been down so long it's up to me.

Noah said...

How about this?

Fred said...

It sounds like there is room for common ground here, Steve, even if your suggestion was meant to be ironic. GOP elites could, in good faith, propose an alliance with these Jewish elites: support for immigration restriction in the U.S. and the GOP generally in the U.S. for continued diplomatic backing of Israel by the U.S. Unfortunately, the GOP elites who like Israel also tend to like open borders.

"Jewry prefers "Defending" (hated and cohesive) to "Drifting" (loved but assimilating)."

As a member of "Jewry" I personally would rather be loved than hated. Let's try not to over-generalize too much, Svigor. Jews whose primary concern is assimilation aren't representative of Jews as a whole -- many of whom are too busy assimilating to worry about the state of Jewry in 2030.

Jehu said...

The disproportionate share of the open borders water that is being carried by Jewish elites in the US is not unnoticed and it is creating a great deal of exploitable rage. In fairness, the Jewish component of the US elite class is probably no worse per capita than the rest of that elite, but they are overrepresented by a factor of 10-15 in said elite. In addition, it is a far more easily differentiated group to get one's hate on against than SWPL liberal whites. I don't expect this to end well. My natural disposition is to favor Israel but in the final analysis, my feelings about a group are essentially the integral of their prior actions towards me and mine.

Steve Sailer said...

"That pink chart is pretty funny."

I'm not going to criticize anybody else's choice of online colors.

I'm not a clinically colorblind person, I just play one on my blog.

Cameron said...

'As a long-time admirer of Israel'

I'll have to use that, sound heaps better than 'some of my best friends are Jewish'.

Fred said...

How about this?

Some interesting consequences of your idea. If the lefty, secular Jews continue to assimilate and marry out (or never have kids) and they are replaced with tougher-minded Chinese Jews, then the New Jews will be far more conservative politically than current Jews.

Another source of recruits for Reform Judaism, of course, is the kids of the Jews with the black hats and the curly sideburns. Seduce them with shrimp cocktails, shiksas, cheeseburgers...

Anonymous said...

I like the way Orthodox Jews are not considered to belong to any country for the purposes of that chart.

robert61 said...

The distinction between "defending" and "drifting" is good to bear in mind and mention when you're accused of racism or ethnocentrism while discussing demographic issues. Clearly, it's more pleasant, as an individual, to be part of a drifting population, yet defending can be healthier for the group. Mentioning team standings doesn't make you a playa hater.

kopseer said...

Thanks for that eye-opening article Steve. Amazing how run-of-the-mill ethnocentric Judaism really is, whilst in the mostly Jewish-controlled MSM it is constantly being portrayed as an ├╝ber-sophisticated state of being. Nothing here you could not find in any ordinary European race-based movement of the past or present. Though you have to give them credit for being more sophisticated and consequent than Europeans who love to shoot themselves in the foot.

The list of internationalist heavyweights involved in this clear-cut ethnocentric planning is also eye-popping. These are the people who could not beat down a white ethnocentric country fast enough.

By now it’s clear that all the rhetoric against "racism" is just a ploy to keep the competition down. That’s why their tactics are so dirty. Foxman has got to take the cake for hypocrisy though.

Anonymous said...

Jehu,
by now any idiot can see that the open-borders shilling of people like Foxman, who behind the scenes is involved in obscene ethnocentrism which makes a mockery of everything he purportedly stands for, can only be understood as a tactic to beat down the perceived competition.

Davey said...

Funny that Iran is in the Nightmare Zone, when it has the biggest population of Jews in the Middle East outside Israel, and Israel can't get them to leave if when they try to bribe them to come to Israel.

agnostic said...

The Ibn Khaldun / Peter Turchin observation is that cultures travel around the quadrants in the chart in a clockwise fashion, starting in the lower left.

First, you're out on the fringe and controlled by some power in the center, trying to fight it on your own.

Second, you realize it's too much to fight on your own, so you and your peers band together to protect yourselves from the center.

Third, now that you're cohesive and emboldened, you might as well make a grab for power and knock those decadent, squabbling elites off their high horse, and taking their place at the center of power.

Fourth, lacking a common powerful enemy to force you to band together, you let go of your solidarity bonds and become the new decadent, squabbling elite.

Last, some other group in the Defending quadrant storms the gates and kicks you out. You're no longer in power, and you still show the internecine behavior of your recent decadent past. So now you're back in the lower left, and the cycle starts again.

At least in America, there's no way that Asians are going to displace Jews -- they're not in the Defending quadrant, in a position where they can strike and dethrone the Jews.

Indians are. Just as recently as the 1980s, Indians were hardly organized as a bloc, and they were ridiculed by the mainstream culture and looked at sideways by real people. The extra jolt of suspicion toward them in the wake of 9/11 only made that worse.

But during the '90s or 2000s, they've cohered as a group. You could quantify this by the number of South Asian Student Organizations by year at the top 100 colleges.

Seems like by the early 2000s, they were standard among elite schools. Then there are blogs like Sepia Mutiny that show how solidaristic they've become. Since it's so recent, they'll probably stay in the Defending quadrant for awhile.

Asians, by contrast, have been welcomed by the mainstream for decades -- last time they were hated was probably WWII. They're with whites and Jews in the near future -- Drifting.

Looks like that only leaves Indians to dethrone the Jews. Then maybe by 2080 or 2100 or whatever, the decadent Indian-American elite will be overthrown by a newly coherent and emboldened American Jewry.

In the agricultural stage of history, there were cycles between civilized city-folk and nomadic barbarian invaders. Now the cycles will be between various "model minorities."

Udolpho.com said...

Fred would prefer to be loved than hated...but as it happens...

jack strocchi said...

I am probably not the only one to recognise this but for the benefit of those who have not had the misfortune to sit through management PD, the four-box matrix is a form of SWOT analysis:

INTERNAL

- S-trengths
- W-eaknesses

EXTERNAL
- O-pportunities
- T-hreats

I dont know who invented this analysis. McKinsey or Boston Consulting Group. Probably been around forever.

Its kind of useful but embarrassing to remember, since its all part of the death by Power-point process.

l said...

Abe Foxman needs to denounce 2030: Alternative Futures for the Jewish People as a 21st Century Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, before folks think it's OK to talk about it.

l said...

Steve - did you crib your opening clause from someone else?

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine45.html

LOL

Mr. Anon said...

Checkout JPPPI's website. Dig that logo on top of the page:

http://www.jpppi.org.il/JPPPI/index.asp

Today America, tomorrow......the World.

One can only imagine how Abe Foxman would respond to any white gentile who was a member of something called the White People Policy Planning Institute. Foxman's affiliation with JPPPI needs to be brought up and relentlessly shoved in his face, everytime he makes a public appearance.

Anonymous said...

Jews whose primary concern is assimilation aren't representative of Jews as a whole -- many of whom are too busy assimilating to worry about the state of Jewry in 2030.

Huh?

Howard Hughes said...

"Unfortunately, the GOP elites who like Israel also tend to like open borders."
Unfortunately, the American elite, no matter if it is right or left, supports Israel. There are no one in the elite who doesn't like open borders and no one in the elite who doesn't like Israel - there is just a couple of paleoconservative pundits.

Svigor said...

Fred, I am aware that Jewry is not a hive-mind, just as you must be aware that Jewry makes a lot of decisions without consulting you.

Svigor said...

And Fred, for the record, if Jewry was a bunch of guys like Fred, I'd find something else to harp about.

Svigor said...

Jews whose primary concern is assimilation aren't representative of Jews as a whole -- many of whom are too busy assimilating to worry about the state of Jewry in 2030.

Sorry, I missed this the first time 'round. Well, a couple of things come to mind here. First, Jews are assimilating at about half the rate other "white" ethnic groups are. So they're twice as resistant to assimilation as the rest. Second, they're allowed to have a big meeting where their ethnic leaders map out a survival plan. From where I'm sitting, being allowed to have leaders, who meet and discuss a survival plan sounds pretty sweet. Third, you regularly defend your co-ethnics (even as you downplay your and their solidarity), a behavior displayed by a very outsized proportion of your co-ethnics in my experience, relative to other "white" ethnics, one point among many that belies the denials of solidarity; in my experience, people who don't care about their group don't do that. Fourth, Jewish leaders do represent Jews as a whole. That's why they're called leaders. If Jews didn't like it, they'd run the offenders off, publicly denounce them, etc. Fourth, assimilation is, essentially, leaving the tribe. As such, assimilating Jews aren't part of Jewry, anyway, so obviously they aren't represented by representatives of the Jews; they're joining the rest of white America, to be represented by no one.

I'm sure I could come up with more if you give me a bit.

Svigor said...

Oh, and it's worth noting that Jewish leaders have been screwing the little Jews (who do you think gets thrown to the wolves when TSHTF?) for about 2000 years now. Best I can tell, it's not a deal-breaker for the little Jews.

Geoff Matthews said...

I've always wondered why Alan Dershowitz gets categorized as 'member of OJ Simpson's Dream Team' and not author of 'Reversal of Fortune' (didn't read the book, but I liked the movie), or Harvard professor Alan Dershowtiz. Both seem more significant than OJ.

tommy said...

When I downloaded the file it came in a zip format that was corrupted. If this occurs, then please change the file extension from .zip to .pdf and it will open properly.

Anonymous said...

i'm admiration for Jews has to do with non-whinying attitude and they don't have a sense of entitlement.

ccontrast this to blue-collar white "working" americans... these red-necks feel entitled to a "middle-class" lifestyle.

why?? for being white? for being american??

Steve Sailer said...

"I've always wondered why Alan Dershowitz gets categorized as 'member of OJ Simpson's Dream Team' and not author of 'Reversal of Fortune' (didn't read the book, but I liked the movie), or Harvard professor Alan Dershowtiz. Both seem more significant than OJ."

2030 didn't characterize him that way, I did, as the last element in a long sentence. I try to to put the funniest thing in a sentence last, following the chief rule of the Dave Barry School of Prose Style. It keeps people reading each sentence all the way to the end.

Anonymous said...

"One can only imagine how Abe Foxman would respond to any white gentile who was a member of something called the White People Policy Planning Institute. Foxman's affiliation with JPPPI needs to be brought up and relentlessly shoved in his face, everytime he makes a public appearance."

I doubt it would matter. Foxman would simply claim Jews are white people who just happen to have a different religion. This would be different from Whites who would be motivated by racialism, not religion, according to the Foxman.

Foxman: "And we all know what happened last time when whites tried to organize, yada, yada, canard, yada, KKK, Auschwitz, slavery, apartheid. That's why the JPPPI is even more important now than ever before. It's in America's interest to support it!"

headache said...

Steve, thanks for this informative article. Clears up a lot of questions for me.

Vincent Ignatius said...

Perhaps relevant to my future children. The way Jewish girls (even "very" Jewish girls) go after me, there is a good chance that my children will be Jewish.

Israelis were also very welcoming of me despite the fact that I am obviously not a Jew. Israel feels like the only non-Anglo country that I could actually integrate into and I've traveled quite extensively.

Anonymous said...

"Then there are blogs like Sepia Mutiny that show how solidaristic they've become."

Sepia Mutiny is a hilariously hypocritical website. They rail against whitey all day -- some of the posters there seriously hate white people -- and complain about white supremacists, etc.

And then the word you have to enter when posting, to make sure you're not a bot?

BROWN!

Can't make this stuff up...

Jim O said...

"I've always wondered why Alan Dershowitz gets categorized as 'member of OJ Simpson's Dream Team'...,

Me, too, especially since he was to play a truly active role (as appellate counsel) only in the unlikely event of conviction. Indeed one theory holds that LegalZoom.com's Robert Shapiro hired him only to make sure he didn't go to work for the other side.

BTW, is it just me, or do we see a lot less of Dershowitz on TV since OJ and Reversal of Fortune? Not that I'm complaining, mind you, but why that publicity hound would suddenly disappear from the airwaves stumps me. Or am I wrong? Is he on only the shows I don't watch?

Anonymous said...

Though you have to give them credit for being more sophisticated and consequent than Europeans who love to shoot themselves in the foot.

Themselves? Or did someone else shoot them in the foot?

Anonymous said...

@agnostic

Sepiamutiny and the south asians are leftist, liberal , muslim-o-phile and represent the fringe

South Asianitis is dead,
There are huge differences between Indians , and the muslim Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in terms of income and education

From US - Census, ACS 2008 survey

College rate / Median Household income

White = 29% / $55K
Chinese = 52% / $68K
Indian = 70% / $90K

versus the low achieving muslim south asians

Bangladeshi = 49% / $49K
Pakistani = 54% / $60K

--

But the white public is not aware of the under-the-radar Indian statistics and our outmarriage rate is much lower than the jewish rate

Anonymous said...

"Fred would prefer to be loved than hated...but as it happens..."
----
And better to be feared than than those other 2...

SFG said...

"Jewry prefers "Defending" (hated and cohesive) to "Drifting" (loved but assimilating). When I point this stuff out, I'm a rabid "anti-semite.""

Organized Jewry does, for obvious reasons--if the Jews aren't cohesive, they have no clout. A lot of us rank-and-file are perfectly happy eating ham and chasing Asian women, thank you very much. :)

Anonymous said...

"our outmarriage rate is much lower than the jewish rate"

Err, no! Second generation exogamy rates for Indians stands at roughly 40%. This trend will only increase (1st generation immigrants seem disinclined to having their progeny marry outside the community).

For Jews the exogamy rates are roughly 50%.

All this talk about displacing Jews is hogwash - most Indians are *extremely* favorably disposed towards (liberal) Whites and have no tribalistic feelings, other than a vague (and weak) sense of leftist solidarity with other South Asians.

Anonymous said...

It should also be noted that both Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley make no mention of their ethnicity, and seek to repudiate any attempt made to associate them with their original backgrounds. This doesn't really augur well for a tribalistic, tight-knit, political community. It does however augur well for the community itself as it shows a willingness to break from tradition and assimilate into the mainstream.

Anonymous said...

@Anon - sense of leftist solidarity with other South Asians.
--

Whenever Robert Spencer of Jihadwatch, wants a non-white face at his anti-islam shindigs, he turns to Indians

USINPAC and HAF are openly pro-Israel and anti-muslim

Most Indians will be happy to see islamic south asians thrown into GITMO

Affirmative action is already starting to hit Indian kids
And Indian doctors hate malpractise lawyer supporting liberals

Lots of Indian convenience store clerks are killed by blacks

The census shows a nearly 2X Income ratio between Indians and the islamic south asians and they will be in different trajectories

Anonymous said...

Indians are a pretty diverse group, encompassing a wide variety of castes, languages, and religions. There is a common cultural and, with the exception of a small Muslim/Christian minority, religious outlook that does bond Indians together. Indians also mainly come from Hindi or Hindi derivate language backgrounds, with the exception of the 25% who are southerners.

For 2nd generation Indians, there is a tendency to identify with Indianess/desiness over subculture (caste, language, religion). At the same time, Indians are pretty prosperous, well educated, in contact with a diverse array of people, and contented. So there's very little desire to smash the order or take over. Indians are pretty happy with everybody and do like the status quo. If there's any overriding philosophy among Indians, it's to more or less keep things the way they are, with minor improvements.

Most Indians just want to make their money, build their house, and make nice with their neighbors and society. The revolutionary spirit doesn't burn too bright in your typical M Night Shyamalan or Bobby Jindal. Sure Indians would like to see a few more of their boys in positions of power/influence, but they're pretty happy with the way things are now and somewhat shocked at how meteoric the rise has been over the last couple decades. Indians, in general, are not angry or aggrieved about much.

Indians do tend to be center-left. Partly for identity politics reasons. Partly because Democrats have historically been more pro-India and more willing to court Indians. Partly because many of them live in blue states or blue zones in Red States (ie Dallas, Houston, Atlanta). There's not too much of connection to the blood and soil stuff that conservatives preach, but not much connection to the far left types either. All in all, Indians are pretty centrist and would like a politician like Clinton or Gore to lead them.

The USINPAC and right wing Hindus represent only a small fraction of the Indian community at this point, much how the neoconservatives are well to the right of most Jewish-Americans. Furthermore, among second generation Indians, views tend to be more liberal, especially with respect to Muslims and Islamic terrorism.

For Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, the first generations are similar to Indians. For second, there seems to be an increasingly pan-Islamic identity that crosses ethnic lines. Moreso in the UK than US. To some extent in Canada too. Muslims, of all ethnicities, will be an issue and will, in many cases, go down the path of radicalization. That'll be bad for Jews.

Fred said...

Svigor,

Thanks for the semi-kind words. Mighty white of you. I'll try to summon the energy to respond to your points later. I just wanted to put it out there so you don't feel neglected as I respond to less time consuming commenters.

""Fred would prefer to be loved than hated...but as it happens..."
----
And better to be feared than than those other 2..."


Nah. A man whose name I forget once said,

"Those who are loved are raped. Those who are feared are killed. But those who are respected get the job done."

Svigor said...

i'm admiration for Jews has to do with non-whinying attitude and they don't have a sense of entitlement.

ccontrast this to blue-collar white "working" americans... these red-necks feel entitled to a "middle-class" lifestyle.

why?? for being white? for being american??


Is that sarcasm? Jews not whiny? The only ethnicity (much less "white" ethnicity) with an ethnostate (i.e., wholly based on ethnic entitlement)? Yes, I'm going to tell myself that's sarcasm...

Svigor said...

I doubt it would matter. Foxman would simply claim Jews are white people who just happen to have a different religion. This would be different from Whites who would be motivated by racialism, not religion, according to the Foxman.

To which one responds, "hey, no problem, we're just white people motivated by yet another different religion. So we're all simpatico. Let's sit down and compare notes."

There's no getting around the "we just want for ourselves what you have for yourselves" argument.

Foxman: "And we all know what happened last time when whites tried to organize, yada, yada, canard, yada, KKK, Auschwitz, slavery, apartheid. That's why the JPPPI is even more important now than ever before. It's in America's interest to support it!"

Now you're talking. This is the beef of "liberalism"; not logic, not argument, not rules, but Narrative. It's a big just-so story. It depends wholly on power and inertia. Somebody else gets 'hold of the bullhorn, and he becomes the new Narrator.

Svigor said...

"our outmarriage rate is much lower than the jewish rate"

Err, no! Second generation exogamy rates for Indians stands at roughly 40%. This trend will only increase (1st generation immigrants seem disinclined to having their progeny marry outside the community).

For Jews the exogamy rates are roughly 50%.

All this talk about displacing Jews is hogwash - most Indians are *extremely* favorably disposed towards (liberal) Whites and have no tribalistic feelings, other than a vague (and weak) sense of leftist solidarity with other South Asians.


Everybody just glosses over interracial marriage when it comes to Jews. I've never once seen the first shred of data as to how many blacks Jews are marrying. Everyone harps on the supposedly high Jewish intermarriage rate, but it's tantamount to Irish marrying Italians, at "best," something nobody keeps track of AFAICT. And, for the umpteenth time, I just don't trust the Jewish monopoly on tracking these numbers.

So how many of those Indians are marrying Pakistanis, Afghanis, Chinese, blacks, mestizos, etc?

Oh, about Indian solidarity, I posted the link at Mangan's but not here; run a Web search for [India Swiss banks "black money"] to see how much capital is flying out of India. Apparently they're the world heavyweight champs (something like five times as much as the next competitor). That strikes me as more the kind of thing an elite dying to sell out its own does, more than the kind of thing people who care about solidarity do. Just sayin'.

Svigor said...

Fred, not to put too fine a point on it, but while you ruminate consider that Jews today are the result of thousands of years of choosing "hated" over "loved." The Jews who chose "loved" assimilated. I'm not the first guy to point out that ethnopatriotism (greatest historical example by far being Judaism) is composed of people who prefer being "hated," whether they admit it to themselves or not. In fact, Judaism seems to make a point of forcing the choice on its membership. That's how it ended up an ethnicity that's all head and no body.

Svigor said...

Organized Jewry does, for obvious reasons--if the Jews aren't cohesive, they have no clout. A lot of us rank-and-file are perfectly happy eating ham and chasing Asian women, thank you very much. :)

Precisely; you're happy to let the big Jews go on as they have, in your name.

Svigor said...

Themselves? Or did someone else shoot them in the foot?

Well, I know from many previous discussions in the HBD-sphere that victims of fraud are always to blame, not the perpetrators.

Anonymous said...

The rise of Indian Americans has been meteoric, over the last decade

2005 Data

Indian = 68% / $73K
White = 29% / $49K
Chinese = 52% / $59K
Pakistani = 54% / $53K

2008 Data

Indian = 70% / $90K
White = 29% / $55K
Chinese = 55% / $68K
Pakistani = 54% / $60K

The Indian / White Income ratio has expanded from 1.49 in 2005 to 1.64 in 2008

Anonymous said...

@Svigor - So how many of those Indians are marrying Pakistanis, Afghanis, Chinese, blacks, mestizos, etc?
--
Next to zero, muslims and blacks are globally on Indian sh** list

Svigor said...

The Indian / White Income ratio has expanded from 1.49 in 2005 to 1.64 in 2008

If you really want to get rough, just go ahead and work up some estimates of how many people there are in Asia with IQs over 120. I'm going to wild-guess there are at least twice as many as there are people in the United States (probably in India + China alone).

"Cognitive elitists" are no improvement from my POV.

Svigor said...

Yeah, so my brain fart was so bad I posted my correction to the wrong thread. :) After that I just gave up in disgust. What I meant to say was, I'm guessing there are at least 200 million people in China and India with IQs over 120.

Cognitive elitism=same strategy, different tactics.

SFG said...

"Precisely; you're happy to let the big Jews go on as they have, in your name."

Not really, but if I join your movement, I might wind up in a (metaphorical) oven. I can't join the Minutemen, even though I agree with their cause, because someone might find out my ancestry and pick me off in the desert, or think I'm a spy.

And I've never given money to a Jewish group.

Anonymous said...

"Everyone harps on the supposedly high Jewish intermarriage rate, but it's tantamount to Irish marrying Italians, at "best," something nobody keeps track of AFAICT."

Not really.

Keep in mind that Jews:Whites::Whites:Blacks.

Jews are marrying down, racially speaking, though I'm pretty sure there's still a fair amount of assortive mating at work here.


"So how many of those Indians are marrying Pakistanis, Afghanis, Chinese, blacks, mestizos, etc?"

I think Indians are going to marry Chinese a lot more going ahead - they'll essentially be deracinated to a degree where the commonalities of their American subcultures will overcome any historical animosities they have for each other.

And here's where I sense the similarities will be: socio-economic profiles, emphasis on kids/family, education (not the lesbian studies baloney), and similar levels of future orientation.