June 28, 2010

"My Own Private India"

In Time, Joel Stein writes a column packed with traditional iSteve themes:
I am very much in favor of immigration everywhere in the U.S. except Edison, N.J. The mostly white suburban town I left when I graduated from high school in 1989 — the town that was called Menlo Park when Thomas Alva Edison set up shop there and was later renamed in his honor — has become home to one of the biggest Indian communities in the U.S., as familiar to people in India as how to instruct stupid Americans to reboot their Internet routers.

My town is totally unfamiliar to me. The Pizza Hut where my busboy friends stole pies for our drunken parties is now an Indian sweets shop with a completely inappropriate roof. The A and P I shoplifted from is now an Indian grocery. ... There is an entire generation of white children in Edison who have nowhere to learn crime. ...
I called James W. Hughes, policy-school dean at Rutgers University, who explained that Lyndon Johnson's 1965 immigration law raised immigration caps for non-European countries. LBJ apparently had some weird relationship with Asians in which he liked both inviting them over and going over to Asia to kill them.

After the law passed, when I was a kid, a few engineers and doctors from Gujarat moved to Edison because of its proximity to ATT, good schools and reasonably priced, if slightly deteriorating, post–WW II housing. For a while, we assumed all Indians were geniuses. Then, in the 1980s, the doctors and engineers brought over their merchant cousins, and we were no longer so sure about the genius thing. In the 1990s, the not-as-brilliant merchants brought their even-less-bright cousins, and we started to understand why India is so damn poor.

... Unlike some of my friends in the 1980s, I liked a lot of things about the way my town changed: far better restaurants, friends dorky enough to play Dungeons & Dragons with me, restaurant owners who didn't card us because all white people look old. But sometime after I left, the town became a maze of charmless Indian strip malls and housing developments. Whenever I go back, I feel what people in Arizona talk about: a sense of loss and anomie and disbelief that anyone can eat food that spicy.

To figure out why it bothered me so much, I talked to a friend of mine from high school, Jun Choi, who just finished a term as mayor of Edison. Choi said that part of what I don't like about the new Edison is the reduction of wealth, which probably would have been worse without the arrival of so many Indians, many of whom, fittingly for a town called Edison, are inventors and engineers. ...

Unlike previous waves of immigrants, who couldn't fly home or Skype with relatives, Edison's first Indian generation didn't quickly assimilate (and give their kids Western names). But if you look at the current Facebook photos of students at my old high school, J.P. Stevens, which would be very creepy of you, you'll see that, while the population seems at least half Indian, a lot of them look like the Italian Guidos I grew up with in the 1980s: gold chains, gelled hair, unbuttoned shirts. In fact, they are called Guindians. Their assimilation is so wonderfully American that if the Statue of Liberty could shed a tear, she would. Because of the amount of cologne they wear.

And here is a another good column by Joel Stein: "How Jewish Is Hollywood?"

118 comments:

adsadsfasdf said...
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Fred said...

Whoever this Stein guy is, he's got some talent. That excerpt reads like a cross between you and P.J. O'Rourke. He makes your invade the world/invite the world points, but he takes the edge off of it with humor, self-deprecation, and clever mention of his Asian high school friend.

Edison also fits another one of your themes: it used to have a large Ford plant that supported a lot of blue collar jobs. Gone and gone.

Anonymous said...

Unlike some of my friends in the 1980s, I liked a lot of things about the way my town changed: far better restaurants, friends dorky enough to play Dungeons & Dragons with me.

But sometime after I left, the town became a maze of charmless Indian strip malls and housing developments.

If you truly like Dungeons and Dragons, trust me, you would prefer living in a place with mind-own-business Hindus than typical white (Christian) Americans.

Anonymous said...

But sometime after I left, the town became a maze of charmless Indian strip malls and housing developments.

Imagine that . . Edison turn into . . . the rest of America.

SFG said...

If you truly like Dungeons and Dragons, trust me, you would prefer living in a place with mind-own-business Hindus than typical white (Christian) Americans.

The game was invented by bored Midwesterners in Minnesota and Michigan. I think it's the Southerners us geeks have to worry about.

Anonymous said...

"LBJ apparently had some weird relationship with Asians in which he liked both inviting them over and going over to Asia to kill them."


Invade the world, Invite the world, even before Steve thought of it. In this way we end up innuidating their elite here with our manufactured global-corporate-uniculture and their masses there with it via satellite. Who is really ruining who is the query we might be asking ourselves in 40 years as both countries might be facing surpsingly sudden real demographic and cultural declines. As GBFM might say, lozl-llozl.



BTW---for Steve the movie reviewer: That latest "Karate Kid" enterprise might be the first installment in the great guilt-mongering of the Chinese over their exploitation and neo-colonialization of Africa and Africans. I wonder how long it will be before Western financial media start suggesting that China allow for African immigration to break up that nation's embarassing lack of diversity? Think they'll fall for it? Me either. But I bet our cultural overlords are pondering ways in which they might try.

Anonymous said...

What struck me right off about Joel Stein, is his nostalgia for thievery.
I've read many pieces written by Americans about their hometowns but don't recall these kind of reminiscences. Interesting.

Anonymous said...

seems like he reads your blog.

Anonymous said...

Heavily Indian JP Stevens High School has a SAT score of 1150 and 95% of students take the test. About 80% go on to 4-year universities. Something like 57 students, out of around 500, get recognition from the National Merit Scholarship foundation every year. If this is the mean that the population has regressed to, I'd say India has a lot to be hopeful for....

Anonymous said...

What I dont understand is how the Patels got in

The Sikhs were already present in California and sponsored their relatives

The brahmins did MS-PhD and then sponsored their relatives

The Patels did not have an advanced degree like MS-PhD, So how did they get in initially

James Kabala said...

I think the thievery part (which also jumped out at me) was supposed to be (but failed to be) funny, meant as a way for Stein to distance himself from his nostalgia by making it seem directed towards memories of shameful events. Who knows to what extent it has a basis in genuine criminal behavior.

Anonymous said...

http://swaminomics.org/?p=954

For decades, I have opposed the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh’s vision of an Akhand Bharat.

However, after the US decision this week to expand visas for high-tech foreigners to 600,000 over the next three years, I see merit in a much more ambitious vision: Vishwa Bharat. Akhand Bharat implies that we should use muscle to dominate the subcontinent. Vishwa Bharat implies that we will use brain-power to gain a major role, but without any explicit domination, in the biggest economies of the world. Forget about an aggressive RSS takeover of the sub-continent, we should aim for a friendly takeover of the whole world, starting with the USA. Actually, takeover is the wrong word.

Totally free movement is impossible: nation states will not allow free immigration. But we are witnessing today something approximating the free movement of brainpower. The US will give H-1B visas (six-year work permits, which typically translate into permanent residence) to 200,000 foreigners per year for the next three years, and Indians have traditionally accounted for half the H-1B quota. Following in the steps of the US, Germany, Japan, Britain and other western countries also see the need to attract foreign brainpower to stay competitive, and have also started offer visas to high-tech foreigners. The world is moving into a knowledge era, and national barriers have always been lower in knowledge areas than in manufacturing or services.

Nobody should think that Indian are rising fast the world over only in computer software. They are rising fast in all fields. Prof. Jagdish Bhagwati has noted how rapidly Indians are beginning to occupy top academic posts in American universities. Ravi Suria and Ashok Kumar are stockmarket analysts who have made major waves on Wall Street. Rono Dutta is head of United Airlines, the world’s biggest airline. Victor Menezes is close to the top of Citigroup, the biggest financial group in the world. Rajat Gupta heads the biggest management consultancy firm, Mckinsey. Even in Hollywood, Indian directors like M. Night Shyamalan (The Sixth Sense) and Tarsem Singh (The Cell) are rising to prominence. The Pulitzer Prize for literature has been won by Jhoompa Lahiri, the Booker Prize by Salman Rushdie and Arundhati Roy.

So do not think for a moment that the globalisation of Indian brainpower is limited to software. It is expanding in all skilled areas. Silicon Valley has unquestionably produced the largest number of Indian millionaires, but Indian brainpower extends now to every corner of US intellectual activity and business.

And that means political clout too.


So the masses of UP and Bihar cannot hope to migrate to high-wage countries. But those with brains can. Globalisation is increasingly letting the brightest Indians to occupy top positions in the most powerful corporations of the world, and influence the greatest political powers in the world.

The process is in its infancy still. But remember that most H1-B visa holders will become US residents, and bring over several family members too. Something similar will happen in Germany and other Western countries. So, in a few decades, we can look forward to the creation of a huge global brainpower network of 50 million people of Indian origin. These will constitute a tiny fraction of the global population, but a big slice of the influential global population.

They will matter in academics, business, stock markets, law, medicine and the arts. And so they will matter in politics too. They will truly constitute a Vishwa Bharat.

Harry Baldwin said...

It seems that TIME has decided it's okay to joke about the demographic transformation of America as long as you make lots of self-deprecating asides, don't suggest we actually DO anything about it, and act like you're not really that serious.

Also, it's apparently okay to mention the flood of Asians into the US, just don't mention the flood of NAMs--Mexicans, Central Americans, Africans, and people from the Caribbean. That's a bit more awkward.

Barack Mugabe said...

I went to school in Edison in ’98-’99 and it was almost entirely Asian and Latino immigrant back then. I used to drive around the suburban neighborhoods filled with dark strangers and look at the housing developments which were built in the ‘50s and ‘60s and try to imagine what they were like when they were filled with White Americans, but it was too much of a stretch and it depressed the hell out of me.
I was a strong Buchanan for president supporter, and saw him speak twice in that area in 2000. The second time I took a wrong turn off of Rt. 1 and went into a parking lot where a lot of cars and people were gathering. This must be the Buchanan speech, I thought. Actually it was a Hindu temple holding a religious service! I pulled up to the Indian valet guy and asked him if this was the building I was looking for and he said in a heavy accent “No, this is temple, brother!”
Anyway, Edison and the surrounding towns are not part of America and haven’t been for years.

Anonymous said...

The problem with this guy's thesis is that the Indian restaurants and supermarkets are by far the best thing Edison has going for it. Otherwise, the town is a cesspool - the place where white kids from the nicer neighboring towns head to buy weed (not from the Indian kids, of course). I speak from experience! But now I am constantly searching for excuses to head there for the Indian food. And I live in Manhattan.

Anonymous said...

I expect these kinds of pieces from Jews like Stein will appear more frequently. Indians are highly tribalistic and competitors for many of the niches that Jews currently dominate.

Anonymous said...

"I wonder how long it will be before Western financial media start suggesting that China allow for African immigration to break up that nation's embarassing lack of diversity? Think they'll fall for it? Me either."

I'm guessing that filial piety will work in China's favor. Western kids' tendency to rebel against their parents was used to promote leftist ideas. I don't think Asian kids rebel nearly as often.

Sam said...

Gotta love that being colonized feeling.

Anonymous said...

The kids at JP Stevens are mostly Patels, almost no brahmins

Anonymous said...

And yet nothing will change because of this

adsfasdfasdf said...

How is it that Jews can get away with writing stuff like this about non-Jews, but if someone wrote something like about Jews--how Jews ruined a community I used to love--, he'd be in hot water?

As I see it, it wasn't Asian-Indians who made Obama president. 'Gay marriage' isn't pushed on us by Asian-Indians. Elena Kagan, Soros, Hollywood, and MSM are not controlled by Asian-Indians.

Mr. Anon said...

"... Unlike some of my friends in the 1980s, I liked a lot of things about the way my town changed: far better restaurants, friends dorky enough to play Dungeons & Dragons with me,...."

He didn't worry. America is becoming a vast live-action game of Dungeons and Dragons.

I'll trade you some silver pieces and a magic potion for a +1 cross-bow (i.e. a set of spinners and some meth for a H&K USP).

agnostic said...

"What struck me right off about Joel Stein, is his nostalgia for thievery."

He's nostalgic for the days before the 1992 drop in crime that heralded the broader pussification of the culture. Camille Paglia voices the same nostalgia in a recent NYT op-ed, although she didn't connect it so closely with crime / violence rates as she should have.

I think Joel Stein's point in using so many petty criminal examples is to show that even a D&D-playing nerd and his likely nerdy friends led more exciting lives and got into more fun trouble than their chest-waxing Guindian replacements, who have probably never gotten into a fight, TP-ed someone's house, or made out with a girl in their lives.

Anonymous said...

"a lot of them look like the Italian Guidos I grew up with in the 1980s: gold chains, gelled hair, unbuttoned shirts. In fact, they are called Guindians. Their assimilation is so wonderfully American"

This isn't assimilation. It's just the way a lot of men in the Mediterranean Basin, the Middle East, and South Asia dress and groom themselves.

Noah said...

Sailer: "IQ is all-important, we're letting in too many low-IQ immigrants!"

Sailer: "All these high-IQ immigrants suck because they're changing the culture I grew up with!"

Who would ever have thought that Sailer would just happen to have two utterly unrelated reasons for restricting immigration?

Chief Seattle said...

"In the 1990s, the not-as-brilliant merchants brought their even-less-bright cousins, and we started to understand why India is so damn poor."

That's pretty darn insulting, even tongue-in-cheek. Imagine if he had said that about Somalians and Africa. The NAACP, SPLC, and Rainbow Coalition would be calling for his lynching. Even one of the chosen people couldn't get away with something like that.

Anonymous said...

'Joel Stein'
Why does that name sounds like one that can say things that, well, people that aren't named Joel Stein can't say? Hmm? Gifted indeed- God bless Iran!

Gaurav Ahuja said...

I have been to Edison and the South Asian part was clean and a lot better than Jackson Heights. However, I believe Mr. Stein is correct. Remember, that a lot of South Asians that come to America are the best of the best. It is very expensive for most people of the Indian subcontinent to just afford visas. Remember, many South Asians come in illegally(including those smart and/or rich people). People bring in relatives, who bring in relatives etc. I should also state that there is regression to the norm within populations, so I do expect things to get worse in the future as South Asians have an average lower IQ than American Blacks.

Anonymous said...

@Gaurav
Are these Patels the best of the best???

Their relatives are also the same caste

and nobody is bringing in the muslims, untouchables and tribals, who are the lower 40% of the IQ pyramid

The lowest Indian caste level in USA is Patel and Sikh who are both mid level peasants

In UK, Patel and Sikh are 80% of the Indians and they are richer than whites

OneSTDV said...

Their assimilation is so wonderfully American that if the Statue of Liberty could shed a tear, she would. Because of the amount of cologne they wear.

He has the pieces in place to be an HBD conservative, but then his liberalism takes over.

PC sure does make you stupid.

chicagopeasant said...

"Heavily Indian JP Stevens High School has a SAT score of 1150 and 95% of students take the test."
Big Deal!!!
My 3 kids from peasant Europe parents scored 1200 to 1450.

Anonymous said...

"If this is the mean that the population has regressed to, I'd say India has a lot to be hopeful for...."

And those merit scholars are also probably the children of doctors.

Get over it. India is not going to be a first world country.

Grumpy Old Man said...

Are there any studies that show the distributed IQs of various castes and subgroups of Indians? I imagine the Parsis have very high IQs, for example.

These groups have supposedly been endogamous for generations--there must be systematic genetic differences between some of them.

Anonymous said...

@Grumpy

A total of 13,104 candidates on Wednesday cleared the prestigious IIT-Joint Entrance Examination 2010 .

This year, 2357 OBC ( Backward Peasant castes ) candidates cleared the test, while 1773 SCs ( Untouchable), 517 STs ( Tribals )

Upper caste ( 20% of the pop ) = 13104 - 2357 - 1773 - 517 = 8457

Anonymous said...

@anon

And those merit scholars are also probably the children of doctors.

--

Doctors send their kids to Sidwell type private schools
These are the kids of Patel motel owners

Kids of Indian doctors get 1400 or more, getting 1150 is a disgrace

Anonymous said...

Indians like to wear gold chains, as it's apart of Hindu and Sikh religious traditions. Our gold chains are smaller and less stylish than the big, brash guido chains. The guidos are trying to be macho and flashy, while Indians are just maintaining a tradition.

The gel in the hair and Brooklyn fade are acquired from the interaction that east coast Indian-American kids have with guido clubbers.

Indian kids tend to be most similar to East Asians, in both behavior and ambitions. Stylistically they'll imitate guidos because it's cool, but Indians don't have that much in common with them. Unlike guidos, Indians go to the college and avoid the steroids. Think ER, not Jersey Shore.

1150 SAT score = 110 IQ. Not bad when you consider that the Indian doctors and engineers have been somewhat diluted by a lot of mediocre merchants and their even less capable cousins. Edison, NJ (site of the high school) has many educated Indians, but others from mercantile or working class backgrounds.

In general, most Indians aren't super smart. There are some really smart Indians, but most aren't anything too special. I'd say that a lot of the mercantile and clerical castes (ie Patels) are at roughly the Western IQ mean, with the large number of agricultural castes (ie Jat Sikhs) moderately below. India likely has a mean IQ in the low to mid 90s, with a high variance. So mostly medicore people, but a fair number of really bright people too.

The Indian-American population comes from the bright part of the tail, but in Vancouver British Columbia you will see a lot of the common folk. Regardless of where they come from though, Indians tend to decently well. The mediocre common folk in BC are mainly working to middle class, while their brighter U.S. brethren are mostly upper middle class.

The reason Patels can outdo whites (who they likely equal in IQ) and Sikhs can outdo NAMS (who they liekly only moderately exceed in IQ) is a combination of bourgeoise traits that characterize Indian populations - thrift, industriousness, long term orientation, strong family structure, low impulsivness, diligence, etc. This allows Indians to attain the middle class, or upper class, dream lifestyle much more easily than equally talented people of other ethnicities. Of course, the downside to all this family control and grinding work ethic is that Indians are less likely to be adventurous or innovative. However, on net, Indians have a lot to be happy about. If NAMs imitated Indians, they'd be able to somewhat compensate for their lower IQs and close quite a bit of the minority-white gap.

If India can approach the upper end of 3rd world, it'll be large enough to be a dominant power and also provide a good standard of living for its citizens. It will also have some significant pockets of dyamism, such as Bangalore or Hyderabad, that compete on a global scale. I think this is a realistic goal and something to look forward to. India is unlikely to reach 1st world status because the masses, especially the North Indian lower castes, have socialist and redistributionist tendencies and can express those tendencies at the vote box.

Anonymous said...

What a silly and supercilious piece!
tHe trouble with this article is the writer makes too many snide comments for cheap laughs (as someone said just like that other idiot PJ O'Rourke), rather than relying on real wit and repartee, and therefore demolishes any serious point he tries to make.
Just what is he trying to say, does he love the Indians or loathe them?
The whole issue is too deadly earnest to try to attempt to make corny humor about.
He reminds me of a trendy, bearded schoolteacher in his 20s attempting to be funny for his senior studets - you see his still a 'lad' and 'with-it' at heart.

Anonymous said...

On Britain's Channel 4 TV recently there was an interesting documentary in which the architect Kevin McLoud dared to spend a week in a Bombay slum.
The refined and cultured mcLoud put on a brave front, but just couldn't cope with the filth and degradation.Rats running across his bed finished him off.A memorable scene in the program was of a makeshift outside 'toilet' - actually a heavily brown stained wooden shed perched over a canal/irrigation ditch.The feces emptied straight into the ditch from a great height.A few yards downstream kids were swimming and playing in the water.

grumpy goof said...

I'm sure if his name was Joel Smith instead of Joel Stein he would be arrested forthwith!

l said...

adsfasdfasdf said...
How is it that Jews can get away with writing stuff like this about non-Jews, but if someone wrote something like about Jews--how Jews ruined a community I used to love--, he'd be in hot water?


Yeah, I'd like to see Stein write a whimsical piece like this about the cultural impact of Agriprocessors, Inc.'s coming to Pottsville, Iowa.

Anonymous said...

"India likely has a mean IQ in the low to mid 90s, with a high variance."

Probably something like 88-89 since the bottom half aren't anywhere to be found in the West.

David said...

Any article about our immigration problem is unserious if it discusses food/recipes.

"Spicy food" "Good restaurants" "Interesting new tastes" etc.

Noah, regression to the mean is the topic. Pay attention.

Fred said...

"As I see it, it wasn't Asian-Indians who made Obama president. 'Gay marriage' isn't pushed on us by Asian-Indians. Elena Kagan, Soros, Hollywood, and MSM are not controlled by Asian-Indians."

I remember when Soros was going to throw a bunch of money at making Bush a one-term President in '04. That didn't work out too well. Hollywood's efforts failed too. The GOP did what it could to make Obama president, by making such a royal mess under Bush and by nominating the awful McCain to replace him, but even so they still at even odds or better to beat him. It was the economic collapse that began in earnest with the failure of Lehman Brothers that put Obama in the White House.

As for Hollywood not being controlled by Indians, give them time. Bollywood already rivals Hollywood in size, and has a growing global reach beyond India. You don't think Indians can make movies about talking Chihuahuas? Give them time. You may even find you like their movies. They've got some smoking hot actresses, and culturally they are closer to '50s American norms than today's.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

The reason Patels can outdo whites (who they likely equal in IQ) and Sikhs can outdo NAMS (who they liekly only moderately exceed in IQ) is a combination of bourgeoise traits that characterize Indian populations - thrift, industriousness, long term orientation, strong family structure, low impulsivness, diligence, etc."

In your rosy love-leter to the virtures of the sub-continent, you forgot to mention affirmative action. Indians and Pakistanis make use of low interest SBA loans that are available to them, but not to whites. And when their term for favorable treatment is up, Indian or Pakistani 1, who hires his cousin Indian or Pakistani 2, now sells his gas station to Indian or Pakistani 2, who now gets the favorable treatement, and hires IoP 1's kids.

Higher castes also benefit from SBA loans, as well as from set-asides in government contracting (affirmative procurement) and preferences in hiring, both at universities and corporations (counts as hiring a dark person, without having to actually hire a black).

Indians amd Pakistanis are making use of the affirmative action machinery which was set up to help blacks in small business. The blacks largely don't bother with it - they'd prefer to work for the Man.

Mr. Anon said...

"Comment deleted

This post has been removed by a blog administrator."

Wow....never seen that before.

Anonymous said...

The best line in his piece is the first. Everyone is OK with immigration until it affects the town you grew up in. Then you realize how fragile your culture is, and how dependent on ethnicity culture is. If the next town over turns Indian, hey, that's great because I love Indian food. If my town does, that's kind of sad because I'm losing part of my identity. That's human nature.

Edison was a white working class town until the 80's but the end of area manufacturing took care of that. It was somewhat well-known for its heavy metal/hardcore fanbase thanks to Vintage Vinyl, still one of the best record stores on the east coast. I still shop there.

There are 2 high schools, Edison on the south side (traditionally more blue collar white) and JP Stevens on the north (more middle class Indian). The children of doctors are bright, and become doctors. Whites are still 55% of Edison but a lot of that 55% is older folk. Indians are only about 18% of the town but are very visible because they're excellent entrepreneurs. And Edison is safe for a town of its size. If your town is 18% NAM it's probably time to move out.

Edison also has a large Korean population--there's a Korean supermarket, the only outside of Ft Lee/Palisades Park up north--and Chinese as well.

Indians are extremely tribal about where they live, like most immigrant groups. The little town of Metuchen is surrounded by Edison like a donut hole, but it's 93% white, and frankly has a much nicer, quaint and typical American downtown. There is a great vegetarian Indian restaurant there but also 2 used bookstores and typical Americana like an ice cream shoppe. I like Indians and their culture but I'd hate like hell to lose Metuchen's downtown.

There are so many Indians in Edison they've driven up condo and house prices to ridiculous amounts in Edison, and a lot have moved into Sayreville and Woodbridge, as the working class white numbers there have declined.

The "economic decline" that the mayor in the article talks about that Edison avoided is a coded way of saying "Hispanic immigration." Nearby Perth Amboy is now 80% NAM and is a no-go area for people who prefer things like good schools and not being raped and robbed. The mayor is telling Stein, you could have gotten Indians or Puerto Ricans, so stop complaining.

I might also add that regardless of one's IQ, cheating in school is the norm here in Indian-American culture. I saw it in high school, I saw it at Rutgers. They do it brazenly and without compunction. I never had an Indian friend who denied it. It's just part of the culture.

The anonymous Indian poster above got it right, Stein got it wrong. There's no imitation of guidos. The gold is a cultural trait based on religion and Stein is grasping at straws, trying to find proof that Indians are assimilating to the American norm (as though guidos are the norm!). In reality if anything they conform to East Asians: priced out of the housing market, they soup up their Hondas with loud mufflers and spoilers. Go to the Menlo Park Mall or the ice rink at Roosevelt Park and you'll see how the flashy Latin machismo of Italian/Portuguese Americans is as foreign to Indian Americans as papadum was to Stein's family in 1982.

Stein is right about one thing though. Massive immigration has turned Edison ugly. It's a sprawling overcrowded mess with terrible traffic. It's also terribly zoned. Unless you needed to live near Indians I don't know why anyone would move there.

Orwell has a great section somewhere in the middle of Coming Up for Air about the shock and sadness that follows the realization that a culture which seemed built to last forever has suddenly changed irretrievably. Immigration is an act of creative destruction, and the question becomes, who has the biggest stake in the future?

Peter said...

Heavily Indian JP Stevens High School has a SAT score of 1150 and 95% of students take the test.

Big Deal!!!
My 3 kids from peasant Europe parents scored 1200 to 1450.


1150 is not a particularly high score in its own terms, but it is remarkably high for a schoolwide average when 95% of the students are taking the test. Such a high percentage means that almost all of the school's lower-achieving students are taking the SAT's.

Italian said...

"This isn't assimilation. It's just the way a lot of men in the Mediterranean Basin, the Middle East, and South Asia dress and groom themselves."

It doesn't exist a "man" that represents all these different countries, and only an american can guess it.
Do you want know, what the southern europeans people think about the american style of dress??
The Anglos are too "meritocratic" and few "nepotistic" , this is your cross and delight. More Guidos and probably now, you would have less looters in your conuntry.

Anonymous said...

"Who would ever have thought that Sailer would just happen to have two utterly unrelated reasons for restricting immigration?"

As if that made either of them invalid.

Anonymous said...

The reason Patels can outdo whites (who they likely equal in IQ) and Sikhs can outdo NAMS (who they liekly only moderately exceed in IQ)

Apropos of nothing in particular, but British Sikhs outperform British Hindus (largely Patel). Seem to be a lot less behaviourally restricted to Indian norms as well, and less abstemious and unathletic. They don't have any particular association with violence here (some weird stories I've heard about feuding gurdwaras though).

Anonymous said...

If you truly like Dungeons and Dragons, trust me, you would prefer living in a place with mind-own-business Hindus than typical white (Christian) Americans.


What makes me think that your knowledge of "typical white (Christian) Americans" is gleaned from the MSM?

D&D originated and prospered right here in "typical white (Christian) America".

Anonymous said...

The Patels did not have an advanced degree like MS-PhD, So how did they get in initially


Advanced degrees were never required. The IT industry has a limitless appetite for Indian workers and their scholastic record is not important. Neither is their intelligence or ability. They're the "good black people" in the eyes of corporate America, which is forever desperate to hire and promote darkskinned people with any degree of competence.

Anonymous said...

If this is the mean that the population has regressed to, I'd say India has a lot to be hopeful for....



This is not the mean that the population has regressed to, these are the best and brightest Indians and they are not living in India. So I'd say it looks like India is screwed.

Obsidian said...

Very good post! I know Edison NJ very well, having spent much time there, and can vouch for much of what has been said.

As for why Black folks, Black Men in particular, don't do as well as other ethnic groups, check this out:

http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/the-brothamans-dilemma/

O.

Anonymous said...

UK Patels own a huge percentage of the country's corner shops, quite a bit of property (especially in heavily Indian Leicester City), and have a lot of kids in law and medical school. Not neccessarily regarded as super smart, but very thrifty and industrious.

British Sikhs are doing decently well, but are mainly in blue collar labor and a few in small business. British Sikhs have not outdone whites academically or economically, but they have kept pace and have a high rate of home ownership. I'm not sure why the Hindu Gujurati Patels have outdone Sikhs, but I'd bet it's because they have a long tradition of business and were more selected for IQ. Patels represent what Sikhs could be doing if they were somewhat more high in the IQ scale.
Not to say Sikhs are dumb or anything. Just that they aren't all that intellectual, by reputation, and seem intermediate between whites and NAMs in IQ. Patels don't seem to have any IQ deficit or advantage, relative to whites (my oberservation).

Guido culture has a lot of focus on womanizing, body building, fighting, machismo, anti-intellectualism, ethnic pride. and partying. Indians tend not to date until late teens or early 20s (assuming they even defy their family's desire for arranged marriage). Indians dislike actual brawling and are generally not much into the fitness/gym culture. By nature, not physical macho man. Indians also overwhelmingly go to college and pursue white collar work, unlike guidos. Sometimes they'll listen to rap and act tough, but they're not serious about the thug lifestyle the way the guidos seem to be. Their commonality is with East Asians, except they are more caucasian in appearance and maybe more verbal and emotional in temperarment.

Cheating happens a lot among all the high performing ethnicities (Indian, Chinese, Korean, Iranian). This is because parental pressure to be on top is immense, but a lot of these kids are just medicore or a little above average. Not everybody can be a doctor (or wants to be a doctor), but the pressure is on. So cheating is a mechanism to compensate when you are in over your head and grow up in a highly competitive atmosphere. I would add that in many of these cultures, saying no to a favor is considered unacceptable, so you are inclined to let you dumb buddy cheat off you. This makes cheating easier.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure if his name was Joel Smith instead of Joel Stein he would be arrested forthwith!

When I got up at 5 AM to read this blog and drink coffee - in that order - I mistook Joel Stein for Joe Stalin!

The names do look that close.

BamaGirl said...

"Cheating happens a lot among all the high performing ethnicities (Indian, Chinese, Korean, Iranian). This is because parental pressure to be on top is immense, but a lot of these kids are just medicore or a little above average. "

I hate to break it to you, but cheating is rampant among almost ALL high school students of every ability level and a significant minority of college students.This phenomenon is not unique to Indians/Asians at all. Anyway, cheating in high school is nobody deal considering people aren't able to on the most important tests (SAT/ACT).

D&D Lover said...

If you truly like Dungeons and Dragons, trust me, you would prefer living in a place with mind-own-business Hindus than typical white (Christian) Americans.

What makes me think that your knowledge of "typical white (Christian) Americans" is gleaned from the MSM?

D&D originated and prospered right here in "typical white (Christian) America".

The D&D creators and original fan base were hardly "typical". White yes, American yes, Christian heritage yes - but typical NO.

White America produces its share of both geeks and anti-geeks, and believe me, the latter are pretty damn powerful, and not at all confined to the South.

Americans of Indian and East Asian origin are beginning to enjoy geek culture including D&D. The ones that don't see it only as a waste of time rather than something inherently evil and "satanic". Even as far back as the 1980s, I have encountered more than a few Indian/Asian players as well as the ominpresent whites.

(No blacks, though. They just weren't interested.)

Indian/Asian Americans don't live in a cultural vacuum. They heard of D&D, C&S, M:TG, Vampire, and related pastimes. What they do lack is the sort of prejudice so common in Christian White Americans.

BamaGirl said...

"Cheating happens a lot among all the high performing ethnicities (Indian, Chinese, Korean, Iranian). This is because parental pressure to be on top is immense, but a lot of these kids are just medicore or a little above average."

Cheating happens a lot among over 75 percent of high school students, and a significant minority of college students. Its by no means unique to high performing minorities. I remember in a biology class in 10th grade (AP) all but two kids in the class were cheating in some fashion. What's important though is that at least its nearly impossible to cheat when the results count the most. (ACT/SAT/LSAT/GRE/MCAT etc)

asdfasdfsdf said...

Is this the guy who wrote 'Hollywood IS owned by Jews'?

Anonymous said...

The initial wave of Patels were well educated, but they brought over a huge number of their distant relatives and other coethnics. Among the other Indians, bringing over the entire clan was done less frequently. So Patels disproportionately predominated in the immigration wave.

IT shops could employ anybody they wanted for cheap - Chinese, Koreans, Russians, Bulgarians, Vietnamese, Filipinos, Iranians.... Why Indians? Is it the American boss's immense love of spicy smelling desis? Or is it because Indian techies are educated, skilled, decently competent, and hardworking?

You're liviing in a dream world if you really think Indians have an 81 IQ.

Guidos and Indians hate each other in New Jersey. East Asians and Indians get along pretty well in San Jose because they have a lot in common.

Difference Maker said...

I wonder how long it will be before Western financial media start suggesting that China allow for African immigration to break up that nation's embarassing lack of diversity?

There already is substantial African migration to China's coastal cities.

Calvin said...

IT shops could employ anybody they wanted for cheap - Chinese, Koreans, Russians, Bulgarians, Vietnamese, Filipinos, Iranians.... Why Indians? Is it the American boss's immense love of spicy smelling desis? Or is it because Indian techies are educated, skilled, decently competent, and hardworking?

You're liviing in a dream world if you really think Indians have an 81 IQ.


The main reason is that basically a deal has been cut between Jews and Indians to form a strategic alliance against the Muslims.

The policies promoted by Jews during the 20th century have caused the technical pioneer population of the United States to start shrinking due to birth rates and demoralization. They know they need population to stave off Islam but they don't quite know where they are going to go to get replacement population for the United States pioneer Christians: China or India?

The fact that 82% of the population was against H-1b visa expansion when Congress voted overwhelmingly to expand it isn't just a demonstration of "corporate" power in the US. It's a demonstration of Jewish willingness to hand over key aspects of United States national security to India in exchange for a strategic global partnership with a large population center the Jews think they can manipulate pretty much the way they manipulate Christian populations in the West.

Boy do they have another thing coming!

Maybe they suspect as much, though. At least some of them, like Joel Stein with this article here.

Marc B said...

"I think it's the Southerners us geeks have to worry about."

D&D thrived in the Southern US back in the 1980's, but it was not the game of choice among Bubbas and good ol' boys, just their geeky neighbors.

Anonymous said...

Calvin, so this H-1B Visa thing is a Jewish conspiracy? Oh, man.

Buddy, employers hire Indians because there is a large supply of competent and low cost labor in India. Simple economics. Those employers throw a lot of money at the white and black politicians, so the politicians create the visa program for the software companies. Believe me, it has nothing to do with Jews or Israel.

Besides, Indians are not warlike people. They're more defensive in their mentality and foreign policy. If you think Indians are going to give thousands of their sons' lives to die in a Middle Eastern war, you don't know anything about Indians. Most Indians aren't even prepared to fight the Muslim terrorists that have ethnically cleansed Kashmir of its Hindu Pandit population. You expect these people to go off to Iran and fight for Israeli interests?

The current ruling political coalition in India is pretty much neutral between the Muslims and Jewish Israel. Partly this is because India has a large swing vote of Muslim voters, who nobody wants to alienate. India also has a lot of socialists that see the Palestinians sympathetically.

With your level of stupidity, I'm surprised you can even get out of bed in the morning.

Anonymous said...

How many of us can honestly say they never cheated on any exam or other academic work, in any part of their educational lifetime?

Probably the same number who never stole a penny or a chocolate bar when they were little kids.

Anonymous said...

Cheating happens a lot in high school because a lot of kids don't want to be there or can't handle the workload. This gets more true when you're dealing with highly competitive kids that want to get into an Ivy league or some prestigious school. Indians and Asians are overrepresented among the competitive overachievers, but I don't want to give the impression that whites are paragons of ethical behavior either. Whites and other groups do cheat when they have to...... Put in the same circumstances (pushy parents, big ambitions, lack of interest or ability), they cheat quite a bit too. The difference though is that whites and NAMs are less likely to enter academically rigorous environments (high school, college, honors and AP, pre med classes, etc.), so the need is less. A lot of white and NAM kids don't make it far enough to be a position to cheat extensively.

Anonymous said...

"IT shops could employ anybody they wanted for cheap - Chinese, Koreans, Russians, Bulgarians, Vietnamese, Filipinos, Iranians.... Why Indians? Is it the American boss's immense love of spicy smelling desis? Or is it because Indian techies are educated, skilled, decently competent, and hardworking?"

This is wrong. The primary reason for the prevalence of Indians in the H1B program is ethnic nepotism. Once an Indian is in a position of influence to make hiring decisions, he will hire other Indians even if there are more qualified non-Indian applicants. It only took a few qualified and skilled Indians to open the floodgates for the rest of their unqualified incompetent co-ethnics. California is a sterling example of what happens the moment you promote an Indian into a position of management, rapid ethnic cleansing as whole IT departments are turned into Indian ghettos. If a workplace is majority non-Indian, they will hire Indians to replace them. Once it becomes majority Indian, the powers that be become even more specific, selecting Indians based on proximity to their own caste.

Anonymous said...

@anon - This is not the mean that the population has regressed to, these are the best and brightest Indians and they are not living in India. So I'd say it looks like India is screwed.
---

These are the kids of patels definitely not the best and brightest

Look at Sunnyvale, Cupertino and Fremont and Sidwell for the kids of Brahmins. and they perform far better

Anonymous said...

The D&D creators and original fan base were hardly "typical". White yes, American yes, Christian heritage yes - but typical NO.


I guess you need to explain what it is you mean by "typical". I'm a former D&Der myself, and neither I nor my playing partners had any hang-ups on Christianity either pro or con.

I don't see what this anti-Christian business has to do with the topic of the thread.

asdfasdfsdf said...

"Men with Gold Chains"

This has to be silliest label thus far on Steve's blog.

acy said...

The merchant cousins have cab-driver cousins who come for a visit and don't leave. Don't know what they did in India, but they're cab-drivers here.

The successful doctors and real estate agents and restaurant owners put advertisements in the local papers for servants. "Must speak these three dialects and cook food according this regional cuisine." Can't find Americans to do the work? It's visa time, baby.

BamaGirl said...

Speaking of Indians, anyone noticed the subway takeover by them at what seems to be more than 3/4 of the stores. Even subways in the middle of nowhere in Alabama are now operated by Indians...

Dungeoneer said...

Anonymous:

The D&D creators and original fan base were hardly "typical". White yes, American yes, Christian heritage yes - but typical NO.

I guess you need to explain what it is you mean by "typical".

I believe I already did.

I'm a former D&Der myself, and neither I nor my playing partners had any hang-ups on Christianity either pro or con.

Just how much were you into your hobby, and how many other D&Ders did you meet, and from how many cities, states, countries, etc?

Did you go to tournaments and conventions?

Trust me, when I say I know the D&D and RPG/gaming scene, I know it, and the mainstream cultural attitudes that surround it.

It's not all Christians and other straight types that are anti-D&D. I never said that anywhere. Some are, some aren't - but the ones who are can be very militant about it, and well organized. And there is difference between Christian heritage and practicing Christian. Most white Americans are also Norse-pagan heritage - but very few follow that religion.

And finally, I have never, ever, ever encountered Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Sikhs, neo-pagans, agnostics, or atheists with the same kind of anti-D&D prejudice as shown by certain Christians. Even the Muslims who hate D&D, hate it because of "westerness" rather than because they see it as Evil with a capital E.

Anonymous said...

Once an Indian is in a position of influence to make hiring decisions, he will hire other Indians even if there are more qualified non-Indian applicants

IOW, Indians are just like upper-crust Mayflower WASPs.

Anonymous said...

"If you truly like Dungeons and Dragons, trust me, you would prefer living in a place with mind-own-business Hindus than typical white (Christian) Americans."

He, he. My D & D buddies were fundie Christian southerners from Alabama, South Carolina and Louisiana.

Anonymous said...

"There already is substantial African migration to China's coastal cities."

The one in particular is Guangzhou.

OhioStater said...

It's interesting his high school friend has the last name "Choi" which is not an all American last name.

Anonymous said...

I'm an Indian American. I've lived previously in the New York City area (Suffolk), before moving to the Midwest.

So this Jewish guy doesn't like that Indians moved into his town?

Well I wonder how anglos/Irish/Italians felt when his Jewish ancestors moved into New York, and later outwards into the suburbs?

That said though I do not dislike Jewish people, and I was better treated by Jews in New York than some of the other groups.

Indians and Italians generally do not get along well in the New York City area. When I lived on Long Island, the Italians were flat out of hostile. Many of the kids at school whose parents or grandparents were immigrants told me to "Go back to your own country". In the 1990's, there was even a racist Italian gang on the New Jersey side that went around attacking Indian shopkeepers and even committed a murder or two.

Mark said...

BTW, I noticed this morning that Indians everywhere are in the midst of a major tantrum over the UK's decision to reduce skilled worker admissions from non-EU countries. It's all over the Indian websites, blogs and newspapers.

Whatever Indians believe, what they believe most is THEIR right to immigrate to YOUR country and the fact that YOU have no right to stop THEM.

The UK (area: 94,060 square miles; 5.4 million immigrants) has almost as many immigrants as India (area: 1,269,210 square miles; 5.7 million immigrants) despite being only 1/13th the size.

Anonymous said...

and finally, I have never, ever, ever encountered Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Sikhs, neo-pagans, agnostics, or atheists with the same kind of anti-D&D prejudice as shown by certain Christians. Even the Muslims who hate D&D, hate it because of "westerness" rather than because they see it as Evil with a capital E.

Heh, I remember a German guy on a rpg message board talking about how he had to adjust the RPG world's cosmology so it included no other gods and was explicit about the fact that Allah was the one and only god, to satisfy his Muslim fellow player, before he'd even begin to consider it. And this was a tech guy's colleague talking (though engineers are supposedly more likely to go MusFundie). Interesting I thought.

In general, yeah, I don't think people from other religious groups often really see themselves as fighting on the side of good against pervasive, evil supernatural forces present in the world, in that Zoroastrian way in which some Christians do. And there are some marginal consequences of that. People from Asian and Middle Eastern religions more frequently seem to tend to see themselves as more fighting against other evil but wholly natural people or error.

However, there is a lot more generalised superstition in Asia and the Mid East (not to mention Africa!), so in practice I think more people in these countries might be anti-D&D than in the West, as they more frequently actually believe in all the spirits and witches and suchlike that it includes, even if they see them as to propriated, rather than cast out. I mean, an (educated, wife of a doctor) Indian coworker tells me stories about how her mum threatened to self harm and never speak to her again if she let her daughter wear red when she had measles. It's really not hard for me to imagine Indians getting some nonsense into their heads about D&D and evil spirits (though I'm sure that's not currently the case).

Anonymous said...

BTW, I noticed this morning that Indians everywhere are in the midst of a major tantrum over the UK's decision to reduce skilled worker admissions from non-EU countries.

I don't see what the big issue is. They all just employ phony students anyway, in a kind of Ponzi scheme arragement.

Anonymous said...

When I lived on Long Island, the Italians were flat out of hostile.

The Italians on Long Island are hostile to everyone, themselves included. Horrible, horrible place.

I'm from the south, sort of, and lived on the Island for a few years. It always amazes me how (usually liberal) Northeastern ethnic whites look down on southerners so much. Amazing hypocrisy.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know if the Tories are serious about the immigration cap? They said net immigration of 40,000...... If that goes through, the UK will have about 1/6th the American rate of net migration (and 1/30th the actual amount). Are they really going to keep to that?

Anonymous said...

This guy is complaining about lifeless Indian strip malls? Has this dude been to the American hinterland - it is mind-numbingly homogenous. You've got a Wal-Mart, a Best Buy, a Target, and a couple of the haute cuisine processed food factories, like Applebees or Houlihans...everywhere! A little curry spices things up!

Peter A said...

It always amazes me how (usually liberal) Northeastern ethnic whites look down on southerners so much.

Why? As a Northeasterner, I've always felt that Southerners, for the most part, are idiots. The dregs of the white population. You only have to look at the fondness for creationism, superstition, violence and lack of any scientific advancement out of the South. The only difference between blacks and white Southerners is skin color, it's certainly not IQ.

Mark said...

Does anyone know if the Tories are serious about the immigration cap? They said net immigration of 40,000...... If that goes through, the UK will have about 1/6th the American rate of net migration (and 1/30th the actual amount). Are they really going to keep to that?

The Tories are leading a government in coalition with the Liberal Dems (led by Nick Clegg, who himself barely has any familial connection to Britain - Dutch mother, Russian paternal grandmother, Spanish wife). This is strange bedfellows, so there's a high probability there will be another election in the near future, and Cameron is thought to have underplayed his hand on the immigration issue, so there's reason to hope they may actually be sincere about the proposed reduction. If the Lib Dems don't go along they risk forcing an election and becoming a minority opposition party, rather than part of government.

Anonymous said...

I hope you're right, Mark. Until Tony Blair's Labor Party took power in 1997, the UK had some pretty sane immigration policies that were designed to deter migration. For all their faults, your Tory Conservatives are much, much better on immigration and illegal immigration than our Republicans. If the Tories really follow through with their "cap" of 40,000 a year, the UK will have the most restrictive immigration policies in the Anglosphere.

Once that goes through, hopefull our "conservatives" in DC will get the picture and propose some immigration restriction here......

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know if the Tories are serious about the immigration cap? They said net immigration of 40,000

They're really catching flack because business (often Indian led) doesn't like it. A situation where they can pay lower wages on people who draw more net debt from the government is equivalent to another good way for them to subside profit and privatize loss, and we all know that's how our elites think they should make money these days.

(The chattering classes, of course, don't know about greater cost to the government of immigrants, so don't see this and would likely think it is due to racism and thus wrong to oppose immigration anyway, and I'm sure they'll start exerting their media pressure soon.)

Anonymous said...

British big business has a labor pool of around 500 million people on its doorstep, a labor pool that has complete unfettered access to UK employment.
Of course in this huge labor pool every possible esoteric skill will be available, not to mention the huge wage differential between eastern and central Europe and the UK, and the fact that eastern Europe is very well educated particularly in math, engineering and science.
Add to the fact that thousands of highly educated Greeks would love a chance to earn some real money.
- And this huge labor pool, one of the biggest and most integrated on Earth is apparently not good enough for UK big business.

Silver said...

Indian feller,

Well I wonder how anglos/Irish/Italians felt when his Jewish ancestors moved into New York, and later outwards into the suburbs?

In all likelihood not nearly as pissed off about it.

At least American immigration back then had something of a rhyme and reason to it. Founding stock Americans will complain even that was faulty (and in hindsight who can really say they're wrong?) but obviously if you had to have racially unlike immigration then it's a better idea to get it from cultural familiars and the racial next of kin than from all four corners of the globe.

Furthermore, those groups earned (over decades) what love and respect they were eventually granted. Indians expect you to love them at first sight and set off massive protests at the first hint that you might not.

David said...

>the fondness for creationism, superstition, violence and lack of any scientific advancement out of the South. The only difference between blacks and white Southerners is skin color, it's certainly not IQ.<

There is a small IQ difference, to be exact - and your characterization seems influenced by century-old Northern cliches (particularly the violence part; don't confuse gun-enthusiasm with actual violence) - but as someone living in the South, I must confirm the substance of your post.

Apparently, the Civil War had a disastrous effect on an already not-terrifically-bright populace, and what got built up here in the decades following was composed of the lower elements (mostly white) that remained, plus Jewish carpetbaggers. It's a society largely peasantish and undynamic, with a layer of shallow commercial hustling (including phony tourism cliches). The advantage of living here is the slower pace, or breathing-room, afforded by being neglected and scorned (a la the "prole" areas in Orwell's 1984), although you should try to live in one of the larger cities if you expect any measure of regularity, efficiency, or accuracy from businesses, utilities, etc.

Mark said...

Furthermore, those groups earned (over decades) what love and respect they were eventually granted. Indians expect you to love them at first sight and set off massive protests at the first hint that you might not.

This is the effect of the weak-kneed modern multicult, not some innate aspect of the Indian personality, I think. They and every other modern immigrant group expect to be loved automatically because we as European-Americans tell them they do, and have no confidence in our own culture.

They think they should have unfettered access to our countries because when they complain about current or proposed immigration laws we don't tell them to mind their own damn business. Kick out a few consular and embassy officials and they'll get the hint.

We're taught that our history is one endless stream of racism and oppression - as if every other culture wasn't pretty much the same. If their countries were so damn perfect they wouldn't be coming here, which is, in fact, why immigration from Europe has all but dried up. The Christian parts of Europe (i.e., not Albania) are mostly nice enough that most people want to stay.

Anonymous said...

@Bamagirl - Speaking of Indians, anyone noticed the subway takeover by them at what seems to be more than 3/4 of the stores. Even subways in the middle of nowhere in Alabama are now operated by Indians...
--

Most of these are vegetarian Patels and they sell beef sandwiches

Anonymous said...

Indian Patels in Edison are starting to vote Republican

They are harassed and assaulted by Democratic blacks, hispanics, Italians, Italian cops and Italian democratic politicians

Anonymous said...

Oldbridge is a city 30 miles from Edison, very upper middle class, 80% white, 5% Indian, 5% black

Over the last year there are over 200 incidents of white teens spitting at and throwing garbage on Indians

Last week, 49 year old Indian PhD and his 2 sons 16 and 12 were assaulted in front of their own home by 3 black and 2 white High School Athletes
The PhD, Divyendu Sinha died of his beating

Anonymous said...

Why? As a Northeasterner, I've always felt that Southerners, for the most part, are idiots. The dregs of the white population.

Oh, I'm certainly no defender of the south - no desire to live there or have any association with it. I agree with most of what you say. But the NE (and L.I. in particular) is filled with more than its share of obnoxious, stupid white cretins (not to mention the uber-obnoxious Chosen). I'll take mid-western and maybe northwestern whites any day over the south and NE.

Anonymous said...

There is an Indian immigrant at my office who wants to start a White Male Club to go along with the Afro-American club, female club etc..Human Resources told him he couldn't.

Interestingly,he supports groups like "white nationalists".

Anonymous said...

"There already is substantial African migration to China's coastal cities."

The one in particular is Guangzhou"

Don't they have enough people in China already.

Anonymous said...

"If the Tories really follow through with their "cap" of 40,000 a year, the UK will have the most restrictive immigration policies in the Anglosphere. "

Why not zero? It's too late anyway.What about all the Muslims and minorities who live in Europe now and can't be kept out because of the EU.

Anonymous said...

"If a workplace is majority non-Indian, they will hire Indians to replace them. Once it becomes majority Indian, the powers that be become even more specific, selecting Indians based on proximity to their own caste."

an Indian at work said Indians think of themselves as superior to everyone and he doesn't understand why whites don't. He said the whites are the only people to have created good societies. I don't him him whites are not allowed to think that way in America.

Anonymous said...

Almost 30% of the whites in Oldbridge are Italian.

Sicilian-Italian youth are sort of NAM in their behavioral pattern (dress and talk gangster, thug lifestyle, promiscuous, academic underachiever, tribalistic, lots of substance abuse). Just watch 10minutes of "Growing Up Gotti" or "Jersey Shore" on Youtube. For New Jersey, Indians represent a big step up the evolutionary ladder. At least their kids go on to become doctors and engineers and are productive members of society.

This isn't to take a shot at all Italians, but there is a substanial white Italian underclass in much of the northeast (Staten Island, Bensonshurst, New Jersey, East Boston). Not at all SWPL.

Dungeoneer said...

Anonymous, reply to Dungeoneer:

Heh, I remember a German guy on a rpg message board talking about how he had to adjust the RPG world's cosmology so it included no other gods and was explicit about the fact that Allah was the one and only god, to satisfy his Muslim fellow player, before he'd even begin to consider it.

I take this was D&D or a similar magic-based fantasy? What was his reaction to the presence of magic? This is a major beef of anti-D&D Christians; I wonder if it has a Muslim equavalence?

And this was a tech guy's colleague talking (though engineers are supposedly more likely to go MusFundie). Interesting I thought.

I strongly suspect that the Muslim world's cultural isolation and lack of geek culture drives their geeks/aspoids to extreme Islam. Also, for many decades in Arab countries, Islam wasn't cool. Russophilic Pan-Arab communism was. Islam was seen as effete and effeminate. So the leaders of the modern Islamist movements might well be geeks who turned on to Islam in their adolescent years back when it was uncool.

In general, yeah, I don't think people from other religious groups often really see themselves as fighting on the side of good against pervasive, evil supernatural forces present in the world, in that Zoroastrian way in which some Christians do.

Even for the Jews, Satan is not the same kind of Ultimate Enemy he is for Christians. He is more a trickster, tempter, and a sort of loyal opposition to God. As for Islam, I don't know. I suspect that in Traditional Islam, Satan was more in the Jewish role. While in modern political Islam, Satan is the great Arch-Enemy with the face of the "evil West".

And there are some marginal consequences of that. People from Asian and Middle Eastern religions more frequently seem to tend to see themselves as more fighting against other evil but wholly natural people or error.

Good point. I will also add that in most eastern religions actually believe in the existence of evil, but more as a natural force than a supernatural one. Some liberals claim that Eastern religions say that "everything is good" - but that's not true.

However, there is a lot more generalised superstition in Asia and the Mid East (not to mention Africa!),

Most likely due to the amount of poverty in those regions. Here in America, the worst anti-D&D horror stories are from lower-middle-class parents. Ignorant, poorly educated, prone to superstition, gossipy, conspiracy-minded, manipulative, and trying so hard to fit into middle-class society.

This class is not all that dumb, either, just lacking in opportunities - and from a generation where money can be made without much education. And of course with an anti-intellectual backlash.

The actual lower classes I found were not much into D&D nor were they so opposed to it. They didn't care.

It's really not hard for me to imagine Indians getting some nonsense into their heads about D&D and evil spirits (though I'm sure that's not currently the case).

Perhaps with Indians, their castes might have something to do with it? Perhaps anti-D&D sentiment is strongest in one particular caste, one that is "lower-middle-class" in outlook, and without much emigration.

Anonymous said...

Author of this stupid article should let everyone know from which poor European country his parents/grand parents migrated here? The article was a sheer outburst of racist comments and personal hatred that this person for indian community.

Say thank to God that you weren't born in a poor country where you have to strive hard and burn your ass in a 50 deg temperature to make $2 meal a day.

Anonymous said...

Its sad to see Americans falling for this 'smart immigrant' charade. It shows a basic ignorance of how the Indian system works.

India is not like America, to state the obvious, but for the truth - it is quite the opposite of America.

Wealth and status in India society is not necessarily a function of intelligence. India is an EXTREMELY nepotistic society, and loot and prvilege is hoarded in families for generations. The wealthiest in India are government servants and politicians with ill gotten wealth and not high IQ professionals. Never will be.

Some of these high IQ professionals do migrate to America but a majority of the student population is the next generation of the bureaucratic brown sahibs of India. These people are not particularly smart, just filthy rich and privileged. Expect them to have imbibed some of the deceit and lack of scruples of their parents. Also expect them to unleash that in America.

Anonymous said...

Both Stein and Time Magazine have apologized after a media campaign by ivy league indian Americans and some friends on the left.

Anonymous said...

@anon - Some of these high IQ professionals do migrate to America but a majority of the student population is the next generation of the bureaucratic brown sahibs of India. These people are not particularly smart, just filthy rich and privileged.
--

The students get very high scores on GRE and get F1 scholarships and very few sons of the brown sahibs can manage these high GRE scores

영부 said...

what does this sentence " did we acidentally keep numbering our parkway exits all the way to Mumbai" means?
i am sticking to studying time magazine but this essay use too satire..

Anonymous said...

I remember talking to a southerner in NC and he said he is bothered to be perceived to be slow by northerners becos of his southern accent..I am an immigrant

Anonymous said...

If Indian were not in America, then your so called America would have poor. Your economy is in bad shape and still you criticizing Indians.

Anonymous said...

You guys Get out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea ....


Then lecture others to go to India.

Jattin said...

I am an Indian, residing in India, who travels around a lot and somehow I did not find anything offensive or worth so much of brouhaha. It is all in light humor.

There are a lot many European towns which are far worse in their attitudes. This chap is just having some fun...

Anonymous said...

American are nothing but idiots.. Who invented the ZERO? Indian.... Who Invented the Decimals . its Indian... 35% of NASA scientists are Indians... 50% of software engineers are Indians... All Indians are paying taxes.. and getting nothing back from govt. Without Indians support there is US Development.. US could have been below poverty country..

Kishore. said...

What bullshit you guys are talking about?
Stein just expressed his feelings.
No hard thing in it.
Don't take it too serious guys.
Part of it is true.
We are so lazy that we dont even want to type in our name just hit anonymous when you post a comment.
We feel inferior about our English and our Culture because we are living in this country.
Don't be too defensive to make this matter complicated.
Just read it and enjoy how foolish he thinks about our strongest things.

Anonymous said...

I'm an Indian and proud to be an Indian
If these guys (Americans) don't like us why do they allow us.

Anonymous said...

He is real stupid person, blind to see Indian Americans heading top companies...Pity him...

Anonymous said...

Immigration has always been a problem in this country. Ask the native red Indian.

an indian said...

once saw news saying that the whites fat increased again.....in a local tv channel and about the article....

but though many indians don't like it..what he said is true.......
people with inherited properties come over there......if the author has written some more god aspects about the indians it would not have made such nuisance.....but the column is true and sounds very good......