June 21, 2010

Canadian Crimethink

One of the odd things about the topic of immigration is that the Canada, that beau ideal of progressivism, has always officially subscribed to the notion that the purpose of immigration policy is not to benefit immigrants but to benefit current Canadians, whereas in the U.S., that idea is considered almost unmentionable. Here, it's considered just plain racist to point out that even illegal immigrants' posterity aren't likely to be big contributors to the common weal.

From MacLean's:
Who doesn’t get into Canada

Emphasis on applicants from Asia, as opposed to, say, the Caribbean, has drawn fire. Are we engaged in country profiling?

by Charlie Gillis 

Midway through last summer, when much of official Ottawa was away at the cottage, a revealing document landed on the desk of Canada’s top immigration bureaucrat, deputy minister Neil Yeates. Prosaically titled “Social and Economic Outcomes of Second Generation Youth,” the four-page memo showed little regard for the political correctness typical of government correspondence. “Chinese and South Asians are the most likely to have university degrees or higher, and to be employed in high-skilled occupations,” observed the summary, which was prepared by departmental bureaucrats and released recently through access to information. Second-generation youth of Caribbean and Latin American origin don’t fare so well, the memo went on; they tend to obtain lower levels of education than native-born Canadian kids and wind up in less skilled jobs.


To Richard Kurland, the Vancouver-based immigration lawyer who dug it up, the document confirmed “what everybody in the business has known for a long time.” For years, the government has been gathering data on the performance of newcomers and their children based on ethnicity, he notes, and while immigration officials deny they use information to identify the best countries from which to recruit, the numbers tell a different story. Since 1999, China and India have been the top two source countries for immigrants to Canada, averaging about 60,000 landings per year, while the number coming from the Caribbean has fallen sharply. Immigration from the West Indies had fallen 45 per cent below levels seen in the early 1990s, according to figures compiled by Statistics Canada, when more than 16,000 from that region were entering the country annually.

And these days, equipped with new legislative powers, the government is able to pick and choose more aggressively than ever. Bill C-50, passed in late 2008, allows the minister to delay the processing of applications from specific missions abroad in order to speed those from others, and so far the results have been stark. The average wait time for someone wishing to bring a spouse into the country through Kingston, Jamaica has ballooned to 15 months, fully three times the processing time in 2006. A similar application lodged in New Delhi takes just six months.

It would be simplistic to call this profiling. China and India are better represented in Canada’s intake statistics, a senior government official told Maclean’s, because they are rich in skilled, educated people willing to emigrate—not because of ethnic traits, real or imagined: “It’s a matter of basic supply and demand.” As for the memo, a spokeswoman for Citizenship and Immigration Canada would say only that it reflects the department’s ongoing concern for groups “experiencing less positive outcomes from an immigration, settlement and a multiculturalism perspective.”

Still, both the memo and numbers reflect a preoccupation that has come to define the Harper government’s approach to immigration: which applicants offer the greatest long-term value—now or a generation or two down the line? 

In America, thinking about "which applicants offer the greatest long-term value—now or a generation or two down the line?" is just not done.

Lots more of interest in the article on the politics of immigration: immigrants are particularly attractive to politicians because they vote as blocs. In contrast, native-born citizens are likely to evaluate whom to vote for in a less herd-like manner, which makes them revolting to politicians.

It's also amusing that the author is concerned about the Harper government's lack of enthusiasm for letting immigrants' parents and grandparents immigrate. Immigration is publicly justified in Canada as providing the young workers who will pay for the pensions and free government health care of old Canadians. But, the immigrants themselves keep demanding that their aged parents and grandparents (!) be let in to provide them with uncompensated (and thus untaxed) child care.

As usual with articles about immigrations, the comments are especially acute and informative.

By the way, here's my 2001 article "Canada Doesn't Want Me" in which I see whether I'm good enough to be allowed to emigrate to Canada.

69 comments:

Anonymous said...

Best comment from the article:

"Adam · 4 days ago

The Trudeaupian-Mulroneyist mass immigration policy never was about 'skilled workers', or 'investors', or 'keeping the pension system solvent'. Rather, it's all about two things: bulk-importing warm bodies for real estate growth, and solidifying blocks of ethnic voters.

Some facts are in order. During the last recession, when tens of thousands of Canadian workers were laid off, the Conservative government brought in around 250,000 'temporary' workers, IN ADDITION TO the 250,000-odd permanent immigrants. Many of the 'badly-needed workers' simply ended up on welfare, and most of the 'temporary' immigrants will never leave. There is NO 'labour shortage' in Canada. There is a 'doctor shortage', because Medical Associations had med school admissions capped (ensuring an artificial scarcity). Latter-day Peter Pocklingtons imported all of those Sudanese meat packers, in order to undermine the wages of Canadian workers. Indian and Chinese business owners import low-cost labour from their own countries, rather than hiring Canadian workers.

Beware of the corporate-funded fiction flowing out of 'think-tanks' (propaganda mills) like the Conference Board of Canada--mass immigration, not its absence, will be the death of Canada's social programs. Family reunification is destroying our healthcare and pension systems. Large numbers of elderly people with diabetes, heart disease and other chronic conditions are flooding the medicare system. And Ruby Dhalla's Bill C-428, should it pass, will mean actuarial armageddon for the pension system. So far, ethnic vote-chasing Conservative and NDP MPs don't appear ready to fight this.

Politicians love ethnic bloc-voters, and will do anything to avoid antagonizing them. This is why the Mulroney government threw the Air India case, the Chretien-Martin government kept the LTTE off of the terrorist list, and the Harper government won't kick Devinder Shory out of caucus. Shory is an excellent example: he was nominated under suspicion of fraud, and had a history of troubling business dealings well before becoming MP. Yet, in Northeast Calgary, he brings in the Indo-Canadian vote, so they keep him. Even the Liberals and NDP are curiously silent on the Shory case, for fear of provoking an Indian voter backlash.

The biggest beneficiaries of our insanely-high immigration levels are the banks, REITs, speculators, construction and development companies, and other real estate lobbyists. Annual population growth in the hundreds of thousands means endless housing starts, along with demand for associated infrastructure, like schools and roads, mass transit, etc. Mulroney's 'target'--maintained to this day--of 250,000 permanent immigrants anually was arrived at, after closed-door meetings with real estate lobbyists. Of course, urban sprawl, loss of farmland (less than 5% of Canada is arable) and escalating stress on already grossly-overtaxed freshwater reserves is the result. 'Environmental' groups are silent on this because of both political correctness (it's apparently 'racist' to suggest curbs on immigration) and corporate philanthropy. Have a look at, say, the David Suzuki Foundation's donors' list, and you'll see developers, real estate companies and banks, many of which have lobbied for DOUBLING immigration.

It's time to have an open debate about our immigration policy, the roles of ethnic vote-pandering and corporate lobbying on shaping immigration policy, and where mass immigration is taking us, in terms of environmental issues, food and freshwater security, as well as the serious socio-political and financial effects of adding nearly half a million people to Canada annually."

Observer said...

Also, country background is significant:

"We show that a country’s average IQ score is a useful predictor of the wages that immigrants from that country earn in the U.S., whether or not one adjusts for immigrant education."

' IQ in the Production Function:
Evidence from Immigrant Earnings' Jones & Schneider

http://mason.gmu.edu/~gjonesb/Immigrant%20IQ

asdfadsfsdf said...

I think open borders between US and Mexico is a bad idea but we should push for open borders between US and Canada. Send all our liberals and disgruntled minorities up north. Tell them there's more progressive PC and more welfare in the 51st state.

adfadfasdf said...

If Canada must change, should it resemble Singapore(or Hong Kong) or Haiti or Jamaica?

Jack said...

Forget liberals. When do American conservatives consider moving to Canada and trying to prevent happening to them what has already happened here? Plus, the girls are cute and friendly compared to Americans.

Simon in UK said...

"they are rich in skilled, educated people willing to emigrate—not because of ethnic traits"

He he. Being 'rich in skilled, educated people' is somehow not an 'ethnic trait'?

Gorbachev said...

Nice to see someone - anyone - from Canada commenting on this one.

Funny how liberals and conservatives both seem to be supporting mass immigration up in Canada.

If there's so much division - why do the polls so so much support for continued immigration? It sound like a minority don't know how to get their voices heard.

I've got to tell you Canadians, your immigration system is still a dozen times better than ours.

l said...

Be careful. They prosecute people for hate speech (i.e.: thinking out loud) now in Canada. Y'all might be extradited.

Henry Canaday said...

I think there are about 200,000 Asians in Montreal, in a metropolitan area of about 3 million in eastern Canada.

The presence of so many Asians, and so few blacks and Hispanics, undoubtedly accounts, at least in part, for the amiability of Montreal’s urban life, but it may lead Canadians to sentimentalize the less advanced peoples around the world, as was long the case in some Scandinavian countries.

America’s large black and Hispanic population makes our urban life a lot more difficult, but it can lead to a greater degree of reflexive realism in our attitudes toward what their home countries are like, chaotic and violent. That in turn could make America’s foreign policy a bit more grounded in reality. There is at least that advantage to diversity: it keeps us on our toes.

Chicago resident said...

The third world,with it's surplus population of billions,is converging on the shrinking first world. The movement is all one way. It's ethnic/racial suicide to allow it to go on, that's the big picture.Getting bogged down as to who is needed or who might end up on welfare obscures the reality of changing demographics. If third world immigration continues the only real question will be whether whites will go out with a bang or a whimper. Like the Dodo bird, too stupid to preserve itself.

Anonymous said...

Henry Canaday wrote, "The presence of so many Asians, and so few blacks and Hispanics, undoubtedly accounts, at least in part, for the amiability of Montreal’s urban life"

Montreal has the greatest concentrations of Haitian and Arab immigrants in Canada. Blacks (7.5%) and Arabs (4.3%) are the top two visible minorities in the city. Montreal has comparitevly few Asians, and an unusually low proportion of Chinese-Canadians (only 3%).

Montreal also has the lowest crime rate of Canada's large cities.

eh said...

I'm glad I don't live in Canada. Things are much better here in the US.

headache said...

asdfadsfsdf sed:
..Tell them there's more progressive PC and more welfare in the 51st state.


52nd state.

Anonymous said...

The Trudeaupian-Mulroneyist mass immigration policy never was about 'skilled workers', or 'investors', or 'keeping the pension system solvent'. Rather, it's all about two things: bulk-importing warm bodies for real estate growth, and solidifying blocks of ethnic voters.



Which is exactly what the mass -immigration movement is about everywhere in the West - an unholy alliance between the apolitical business class and the cultural left.

Anonymous said...

America’s large black and Hispanic population makes our urban life a lot more difficult, but it can lead to a greater degree of reflexive realism in our attitudes toward what their home countries are like, chaotic and violent. That in turn could make America’s foreign policy a bit more grounded in reality.




Evidence for that groundedness in reality is in rather short supply, since it is dogma among the entire political class that turning America into a Latin American country would be a Very Good Thing.

Big Bill said...

There are real political efficiencies to the ethnic voting block scheme, but in the long term, they cause religious/ethnic/racial slaughter.

To illustrate the efficiency, Hillary Clinton got Bill to pardon four crooked fundamentalist Jews in Rockland County, New York at the behest of their ruling rabbi dynasty.

In return they delivered all of the town's votes to Hillary for the Senate.

She got something like 1399 votes versus 10 votes for the other guy (Lazio) See this link for more info.

For every Canadian and US politician who wants to deal with a single ethnic leader who can deliver all the votes and money, there must be an ethnic leader who has the racial/ethnic/religious power to actually deliver the votes and money.

This has been the classic Jewish problem through the ages. They cut a special deal with The Ruling Power, get extremely wealthy, and then find themselves at the mercy of the indigenous mob when the economy crashes and their wealth and power becomes painfully apparent to the enslaved or starved masses.

Read this excerpt from Ginsberg's "The Fatal Embrace" (UC Press, 1993) which gives a bit more background on the dangers of MDMs (Market Dominant Minorities) overreaching.

Prof. Amy Chua (Yale Law School, Chinese, also a market dominant minority) addresses the MDM problem and how democracy is extremely dangerous for MDMs in her book "World on Fire". Her introduction is well worth a read.

From Amy's perspective, democracy -- real democracy -- is dangerous in societies controlled by MDMs and therefore the USA should not spread democracy around the world.

Anything that empowers or enables the indigenous minority may result in the overthrow of MDMs, which, as a Chinese woman, is anathema to Amy.

The danger of democracy to MDMs also explains the rise in hate-speech laws and other limitations on free expression in the USA and (worse) in Canada and Europe.

Democracy makes things dangerous for MDMs in America, Canada and Europe, so ideas must be strangled in their cribs before they are spread.

You cannot vote on things that it is criminal even to talk about.

Tanstaafl said...

In America, thinking about "which applicants offer the greatest long-term value—now or a generation or two down the line?" is just not done.

It certainly is. The truth is that such thinking is strongly pathologized and otherwise disencentivized by the anti-White regime, to the point you won't find it expressed in mainstream media, except in reader comments which aren't sufficiently repressed. You even seem aware of this:

As usual with articles about immigrations, the comments are especially acute and informative.

BigBill said...

And just in time to illustrate my comment on the efficiency of ethnic bloc voting and payoffs to their leaders, this news item from New York.

The "Orthodox Jews" referred to in the article are fundamentalist Jews who vote as ordered by their rabbis.

Particularly interesting is the first comment, by an Israeli Jew, a secular, doubtless, who is angry and wants all New Yorkers to know that fundamentalist Jews run the same crooked scams in Israel that they do In New York City, Rockland County, New York, and (also just today)Postville, Iowa.

Sheila said...

Even if Canada is somehow screening immigrants to give preference to the theoretically more skilled or higher IQ applicants, if race is not also explicitly considered as a factor you still end up with population replacement. My local American school district is filled with highly-achieving Asians and while crime may be low, so is social cohesion and any sense of being American. Many of them bought houses next door to their parents, who do that free babysitting they consider so necessary to transmit their cultural norms. Does Canada provide something similar to Supplemental Social Security? I'm always astounded at how few people realize what this is and how soon it was reinstated after a short cutoff. Many of the immigrants in my community now quickly apply for this for their parents and install them in subsidized, low-income city apartments and then keep the extra cash for themselves. Every time I see a wizened Chinese couple tottering down the street or a Hindu grandmother with her sari and umbrella, I'm witnessing the joys of Supplemental Social Security.

Anonymous said...

Actually Canada hasn't had an immigration policy that has benefitted Canadians since Tom Kent brought in the points system in 1967. Canada today is a mess. Immigration is a PRIVILEGE, not a "right".

Whiskey said...

Somewhat OT, Numbers USA is reporting that Obama will issue an Executive Order granting Amnesty and permanent resident status to all illegals in the US after the election.

So, just as I predicted, Obama would be ten times the disaster that McCain would be. McCain was bound by convention, Obama being alien in culture if not birth is not.

America is over. It is irrevocably Mexico Norte. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Europe? All destined as well to be non-White majority.

Anonymous said...

hey Gorbachev,

I hold citizenship in both Canada and the US and lived for a number of years in Vancouver and Toronto.

Yes, this article does reflect current immigration policy in Canada. The current Harper government has put a greater emphasis on looking at the track record of immigrants, but the emphasis on a skilled worker immigration policy has always been there.

Canada does not tolerate illegal immigration. You can't get drivers license, driver's insurance, medical care, a mortgage or a job if you cannot prove that you are legally in the country.

If you are caught driving without car insurance, you will be put in jail. All drivers must carry at least a $250,000 of third party insurance. (Again, if you are caught without it, you will be put in jail.)

Canada does have a more functioning refugee evaluation system than in the US. However, it is quite interesting that Canada recently blocked all Mexicans from travelling to Canada without a visa. Here's an official quote:

"Refugee claims from Mexico have almost tripled since 2005, making it the number one source country for claims. In 2008, more than 9,400 claims filed in Canada came from Mexican nationals, representing 25 per cent of all claims received. Of the Mexican claims reviewed and finalized in 2008 by the Immigration and Refugee Board, an independent administrative tribunal, only 11 per cent were accepted."

The official statement here:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/
department/media/releases/2009/2009-07-13.asp

Illegal immigrants and those who do not succeed with their refugee claims are deported.

There is no ACLU or "racial profiling" outcry in Canada. Asking someone to prove that they have legal status in the country is seen as a matter of course in enforcing the law and protecting Canadians.

Another surprise for many is that you cannot immigrate to Canada if you have any kind of criminal record. That's includes a DUI. You cannot immigrate to Canada if you have a DUI. A Canadian friend of mine married an Australian with a DUI. His application for Canadian residency was disallowed.

Many Canadians pooh-pooh Californians who express concern about the illegal immigrant situation in the state. Canadians have absolutely no idea of the protected (and relatively much more conservative) world they live in.

Many thanks to Steve, for putting up this article.

-pd in sf

Shammi said...

A better policy for the Canadians would have been to encourage the native population to increase their population and to take advanced degree. That would have been a much better solution in the long run. As far as South Asians, Tamil and Punjabi gangs in Canada are as bad as Hispanic gangs in America.

Anonymous said...

Henry Canaday,

"America’s large black and Hispanic population makes our urban life a lot more difficult, but it can lead to a greater degree of reflexive realism in our attitudes toward what their home countries are like, chaotic and violent. That in turn could make America’s foreign policy a bit more grounded in reality. There is at least that advantage to diversity: it keeps us on our toes."


That's nonsense. What would help Americans improve their reflective realism would be better schools. More than 60% of K-12 students in California are either illegal immigrants or the children of poor illegal immigrants. As long as Americans are poorly educated, there is little hope that there will be any "reflective realism" in regard to American foreign policy. On the contrary, there is likely to be greater social friction and less inter-racial understanding when there is so little to go around.

Anonymous said...

"If Canada must change, should it resemble Singapore(or Hong Kong) or Haiti or Jamaica?"

Keep in mind there is no real future for white people in any of those places - for a number of reasons. You do know that - right?!?

Anonymous said...

Somewhat OT, Numbers USA is reporting that Obama will issue an Executive Order granting Amnesty and permanent resident status to all illegals in the US after the election.




The President does not have that authority under the Constitution. If all it took was an Executive Order, Bush would have signed one years ago and we would not have gone through those long, painful battles in Congress over amnesty.

Anonymous said...

Prof. Amy Chua (Yale Law School, Chinese, also a market dominant minority) addresses the MDM problem and how democracy is extremely dangerous for MDMs in her book "World on Fire". Her introduction is well worth a read.

From Amy's perspective, democracy -- real democracy -- is dangerous in societies controlled by MDMs and therefore the USA should not spread democracy around the world.



Then it's lucky for the MDM's that the US has democracy in form only.

Anonymous said...

If that first commenter is right, and we are letting in 500,000 people instead of 250,000, then we are way worse off than I thought. It is pure race-replacement, especially in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal, which is where a majority of these immigrants move to.

I think there might be an untapped reserve of conservative thought here in Canada. 40% of people didn't vote in the last election, but there is tons of choice on the left. 3 parties, and then the conservatives, who are basically the Liberals but who pay lip service to their white base. Sort of like the Republicans, actually. Maybe that 40% stayed home because they didn't like the choices offered to them. Or they were just lazy...

-ASDF

Anonymous said...

If there are any Canadian isteve readers who are interested in halting immigration and want to get some networking going, e-mail me at RepublicofCascadia1@gmail.com
I live in Vancouver.

PS No crazies!

Melykin said...

Henry Canaday wrote, "The presence of so many Asians, and so few blacks and Hispanics, undoubtedly accounts, at least in part, for the amiability of Montreal’s urban life"
==============
Quebec's 10 Most Wanted

Anonymous said...

I'm a Canadian who lives in the Montreal area. Well, maybe the PRESENT immigration system is not that bad, but we had our free-for-all period too, in which vast numbers of Haitians and Jamaicans were let in.

As Henry Canaday mentioned, Montreal does have (compared to similar US cities) an absurdly low crime rate. What is interesting is that the small Haitian minority is responsible for about half of all violent crimes. No doubt a legacy of Canada's colonial past. Ahem

Chief Seattle said...

Once again, the spoils go to the breeders, especially under democracy, but eventually under any system. Get off the Internet and go out and multiply. You're only allowed back on iSteve once you have 4 or 5 healthy kids.

jody said...

euro canadian women are at least 1 point better looking, on a 1 to 10 scale, than euro american women. i don't know why this is, but it's a phenomenon i've observed again and again.

canada has to be one of the luckiest nations in the world, due to the US being right next to it and acting as a buffer and barrier. canada's location directly north of the US is so helpful and useful to canada that it's true value is basically incalculable. the US soaks up over 1 million illegal aliens per year from mexico and the caribbean, a human wave that would easily overrun canada in only a decade. in less than 20 years, canadians would literally lose their nation.

we haven't even gotten into what an astronomically high benefit canada gets from being directly adjacent to the US military. the best navy and airforce in the world provides free protection and shipping lane interdiction for canada. no one on earth would dare invade canada. if the US ceased to exist though, canada, with it's HUGE oil and natural gas and uranium resources, it's vast supply of lumber and water, becomes an obvious and natural target for invasion by russia, china, and so forth. any of the major international forces would easily win that conflict and occupy canada.

Anonymous said...

I've got to tell you Canadians, your immigration system is still a dozen times better than ours.

Its just a different form of suicide* (or rather murder) to America's preferred form of demise. Slower, more comfortable, ostensibly more rational but death just the same.

*Not unlike Australia or NZ. Britain otoh has chosen America's death for itself. Guess thats whats meant by the Special Relationship.

Anonymous said...

It seems to me that the absurdly low crime rate in Montreal is a product of two things

(1) the people of Hatian ancestry in Montreal commit many fewer crimes than similar people of Haitian ancestry living in the USA. Why is that?

(2) The "French speaking" white people in Montreal commit fewer crimes than white people in the US commit

(3) the "English speaking" white people in Montreal commit fewer crimes than white people in the US

Can anyone address the reasons behind one or all of these? I like Montreal as a city and enjoy my visits and want to better understand it

ATBOTL said...

Indian and some other Asian immigrants in Canada seem to commit more crime than they do in the US. Vancouver has a big problem with murders in the "Indo-Canadian community" that are about "respect," ie the kind of silly nonsense we usually associate with inner city blacks.

The reason crime is low in Montreal compared to other Canadian cities is that there are no indigenous people(red Indians) there. It's like why there is relatively little crime in mostly Mexican San Antonio: no blacks.

Winston Smith said...

It seems to me that the absurdly low crime rate in Montreal is a product of ...

The police being too corrupt to report honest crime stats. Quebec is our Lousiana.

There have been several incidents between NAMs and the police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ_kgFcFGy8

Melykin said...

pd in sf wrote
"...you cannot immigrate to Canada if you have any kind of criminal record. That's includes a DUI. You cannot immigrate to Canada if you have a DUI. A Canadian friend of mine married an Australian with a DUI. His application for Canadian residency was disallowed."
==============================

That's harsh, and really really stupid because we are letting lots of people in from countries that are too dysfunctional and corrupt to provide useful information about whether or not a person has a criminal record. An Austalian whose only crime has been impaired driving sounds like a pretty good bet, actually. Take a look at this:
Toronto's Most Wanted

(Scroll down the page to see some immigrants the Canada DID let in))

Jonathan said...

the people of Hatian ancestry in Montreal commit many fewer crimes than similar people of Haitian ancestry living in the USA. Why is that?

The first wave of immigration from Haiti consisted mostly of the educated Haitian elite fleeing the Duvalier regime. It's probalby because of them that the Haitian crime rate is lower. Still, Haitian street gangs is a huge problem in Montreal.

(2) The "French speaking" white people in Montreal commit fewer crimes than white people in the US commit

(3) the "English speaking" white people in Montreal commit fewer crimes than white people in the US


Aging population.

M Schwartz said...

Steve, have you seen this in the Economist?

"Genomics may reveal that humans really are brothers and sisters under the skin. The species is young, so there has been little time for differences to evolve. Politically, that would be good news. It may turn out, however, that some differences both between and within groups are quite marked. If those differences are in sensitive traits like personality or intelligence, real trouble could ensue.

People must be prepared for this possibility, and ready to resist the excesses of racialism, nationalism and eugenics that some are bound to propose in response. That will not be easy. The liberal answer is to respect people as individuals, regardless of the genetic hand that they have been dealt. Genetic knowledge, however awkward, does not change that."

http://www.economist.com/node/16377289

Anonymous said...

To the Anonymous visitor to Montreal...

There is a direct link between poverty and crime rates. Canada's poor are much better off than their American equivalents, and that makes for a more civil society. We often say that the US is the best country in the developed world if you are rich, but surely the worst if you are poor.

The fact that handguns are much harder to come across also helps, as is the absence of a 'cowboy' mythology.

Finally, yes, 'our' Haitians commit less crime per capita than their US counterparts, but it is a telling fact that the RATIO of violent crimes between Haitians and whites in Canada is the same ratio observed between Haitians and whites in the US. I would not be surprised that this ratio would be constant wherever there is a black minority living amongst a white majority

Chief Seattle said...

The liberal answer is to respect people as individuals, regardless of the genetic hand that they have been dealt. Genetic knowledge, however awkward, does not change that.

Didn't see that since I stopped reading that rag after the Iraq invasion. They must be using liberal here in the old fashioned sense. Because the American liberal answer is to track everyone's race down to the tribe (see Seattle Public Schools) and then use that to moan about outcomes that aren't perfectly distributed.

Anonymous said...

"euro canadian women are at least 1 point better looking, on a 1 to 10 scale, than euro american women. i don't know why this is, but it's a phenomenon i've observed again and again."

universal healthcare

more open space = more exercise = thinner and healthier.

no legal handguns. people walk more.

1 year paid maternity leave

Canadians tend to eat less fried food than Americans.

Less "soda". Canadians call it pop.

Anonymous said...

the people of Hatian ancestry in Montreal commit many fewer crimes than similar people of Haitian ancestry living in the USA. Why is that?

Someone else mentioned the thought that the emigrants to Canada represented the Duvalier elite, while Florida et al. got the hoi polloi. I think it's a reasonable proxy for the slightly more accurate divide of language: people tend to think of Haiti as francophone, but it's not--90+% of the folks speak Creole, and a large majority don't understand French at all, not even the basic vocabulary or grammar. Only the most intelligent Haitiens know French, so for them Montreal is an obvious destination goal. For the rest of of them, Quebec as a place to go to makes no more or less sense than an English-language district--they'll be just as illiterate in either place, so why not go to the closer place with the more familiar climate?

BamaGirl said...

"euro canadian women are at least 1 point better looking, on a 1 to 10 scale, than euro american women. i don't know why this is, but it's a phenomenon i've observed again and again."

Probably because A. They are thinner for a variety of obvious factors and B. Canadians are likely less casual than Americans too, so they tend to dress nicer. Americans have a bad habit of wearing sweats/athletic shorts and t-shirts in public unless they are going out for the night. (at least this is what I've observed. Idk if Canadians do this too-I'm only assuming, but all of the foreign kids at my university -which includes Chileans, Koreans, Japanese, Brits, and Germans, ALL dress better than the American students when going to class. The only ones who dress frumpier are the Indians.)

Anonymous said...

Canada let in Jat Sikhs by the millions

Jat Sikhs run defacto parallel regimes and kangaroo courts in Punjab

They are very into Honor Killings esp if their daughter tries to marry a non-Jat Sikh or non-Jat Hindu

Right in front of Punjab High court, they have honor killed their daughters who eloped with muslims and came to seek High court protection


Thats what surprised me about Nimrata Randhawa ( Jat Sikh ) marrying a christian and living in good standing with her Gurudwara

Jats are a caste that had severe evolutionary pressure from islamic terror and evolved into islamic-lite behavior patterns

Melykin said...

gorbachev said
"Funny how liberals and conservatives both seem to be supporting mass immigration up in Canada.

If there's so much division - why do the polls so so much support for continued immigration? "

===========================

What polls are those? The only people who want continued immigration are the immigrants themselves. Everyone else is too afraid to say anything because they know they will be branded as a racists.

Each immigrant wants to bring over several dozen relatives including elderly parents. They want the parents to get a pension after they have been here for only 3 years (while others who collect the pensions have been paying into the fund for 40 or 50 years). And free health care of course. And welfare for their younger relatives.

Soon Canada will be as broke as California if this keeps up. The rich people they let in often turn out to be involved in organized crime or at least very shady business practices. That is how they got rich in India or China or Rwanda, or whatever.

I grew up in West Vancouver, which is an upscale suburb of Vancouver. I could never afford to live there now, and neither can most of the other people who grew up there. Most of my cohorts have moved into the Fraser Valley or further into the interior of the province. Now it is all rich immigrants in West Vancouver, some of them into crime. The population has been completely replaced. Immigration sucks. I want my country back.

Melykin said...

jody said:
canada's location directly north of the US is so helpful and useful to canada that it's true value is basically incalculable. the US soaks up over 1 million illegal aliens per year from mexico and the caribbean, a human wave that would easily overrun canada in only a decade. in less than 20 years, canadians would literally lose their nation.
===============================

Well you know what they say about real estate: "Location, Location, Location". What were you all thinking ... setting up a country right next to Mexico ???

Camlost said...

There is a direct link between poverty and crime rates. Canada's poor are much better off than their American equivalents, and that makes for a more civil society. We often say that the US is the best country in the developed world if you are rich, but surely the worst if you are poor.

Then why does dirt poor West Virginia have the lowest crime rate in the US, along with Vermont.

Hmmmmm.... thinking really hard here... trying to figure out what those two states have in common demographically....

Anonymous said...

Sikhs in the UK, ( very similar to Canada )
From Dalrymples, Life at the bottom

==

A pleasant and intelligent Sikh girl, aged 18, was asked by her family to accompany her aged grandmother back home in a taxi, in which she was then to return. The taxi firm was run by Sikhs, who not only acted as transporters of the public but as vigilantes and guardians of their community's honor. The driver in this case reported to the girl's brother on her arrival home that, during the return journey through a neighborhood inhabited mainly by Muslims, she had waved to a Muslim boy. The brother, fearing the worst, called her into his room and asked whether she had in fact done so. She denied it, but he did not believe her. He took out a baseball bat

Anonymous said...

Canada: Population 100 million

by Irvin Studin

Truth said...

"but it's not--90+% of the folks speak Creole, and a large majority don't understand French at all, not even the basic vocabulary or grammar. "

This is not true, French is the "official" language of Haiti, where as Creole is the "lingua franca." French is taught in the schools, the books are written in French and tests are administered in French, therefore a Haitian with a 5th grade education has effectively had 5 years of French education...generally taught by someone who is not fluent in the language...yet the average Haitian speaks much more French than the average American who takes a few years of French in middle school and high school.

This is the reason the Quebecois, government looks to import Haitians. The goal of their immigration policy is to keep the French language alive; unfortunately, not a lot of white Parisians want to move to an icebox, so that leaves immigrants from ex-colonies such as Haiti. There are also a ton of Romanians moving to Montreal as they speak a romance language that is almost mutually comprehensible...the only such country that still has a poor enough underclass to want to leave their homeland for 9-month winters.

"So why don't the Quebecois just let in white South Africans, their all getting murdered by those down and dirty blacks?!?!?"

Because they would simply pick their families up a month after immigration and move to Toronto which is is richer, larger, and warmer with more jobs, less taxes and a language they already speak. That would, quite obviously, defeat the purpose of separate Quebecois immigration, now wouldn't it?

rob said...

Canada: Population 100 million

That was kind of interesting. There's a fatal flaw the author never adresses. Where could they get another 65 million Canadians? Chinda doesn't have them, India doesn't have them. If they did, there'd be articles "China and India, an effing 100 or so Canadas." Anyone who thinks Haitians can be turned in Canadians is dumber than the Haitians.

When the diversity in the US gets bad enough, maybe Canada will take tens of millions of white refugees. Maybe if we ask them really nice.

Sam said...

Most of the immigrants Canada takes in are not highly skilled profesionals brought in to improve the economy. Probably more than half are a result of chain migration from earlier immigrants - underachieving relatives.

The skilled ones who do get in often have their qualifications denied- professional associations don't need competition driving down wages.

There is an investor class category but that doesn't accomplish much. Investment often means just purchasing a house. That end up driving up real estate so native Canadians can't afford to live in their own cities any more. Furthermore, a lot of immigrants with money have earned it through shady ways ( maybe you have todo it that way in the Third World) . You end up getting a strange phenomenon of gang shootouts in upscale neighborhoods.


And Third World people, no matter their socio/economic status don't move to Canada to emulate SWPL; they bring their culture with them:

Chinese are wonderful at gaming every government system in every conceivable way.

Vietemese have jumped entusiastically into the drug trade.

Indiand want to retain their caste system, their honour killings , their sexism.

Jamaicans assimilate a bit better, but tend to want to assililate into the lifestyle of black Americans.

And having a lot of Asians doesn;t mean low crime. Vancouver and Seattle are of similiar sizes, but few-blacks/ losta Asian Vancouver has a much higher crime rate than Seattle.

Many refugees are simply criminals. I's almost impossible to get rid of them. and even when you do- it costs a fortune- they get multiple appeals and paid legal services.

The only "Euro" Canadians who actually like immigration are the ones who make money off it- developers, immigration lawyere, etc. and the SWPLs who can insulate themselves for the negative effects.

Melykin said...

Jats [Sikhs] are a caste that had severe evolutionary pressure from islamic terror and evolved into islamic-lite behavior patterns
========================

That explains a lot. Some of the Canadian Sikhs responsible for the 1985 Air India bombings have never been brought to justice despite a very long and fantastically expensive investigation and trial. Many people were too afraid to testify against the perpetrators. Two or three witnesses were murdered. The accused pretended to be destitute and got millions in legal aid, but in fact it turns out that were wealthy and they now owe the government millions. Instead of paying it back, one of them is trying to sue the government for wrongful persecution (although it is very clear he is guilty).

The ring leader, Talwinder Singh Parmar, was brought to justice, but only because he returned to India where he was arrested. He died at the hands of the Indian police.

Every year some Sikhs in Surrey (a Vancouver suburb that is mostly Sikh) hold a parade with the picture of Talwinder Singh Parmar, who they honour as a martyr. It is really quite appalling.

Hopefully the extremist Sikhs are only a minority of all Sikhs in Canada. It is encouraging that a moderate Sikh, Ujjal Dosanjh, is a high-profile federal MP from British Columbia. He speaks out against the extremist Sikhs (for which he was viciously beaten in 1985, and still receives death threats). But it encouraging that Dosahjn was elected in a heavily Sikh riding (Vancouver South). Dosahjn seems like an intelligent, sensible person. He speaks out against political correctness, urging Canadians to condemn minority cultural practices that conflict with human rights.

http://ujjaldosanjh.libtest.ca/journal/op-ed-admit-honour-killings-for-what-they-are/

I have never heard of "no go zones" in Canada, as they have in Europe--that is, neighbourhoods where non-Muslims fear to enter. I myself have gone shopping in fabric stores in the Sikh areas of Surrey (looking for exotic fabric). Although I was the only white person anywhere around, and I got a few strange looks, I never felt afraid or anything like that.

The Sikh fabric stores are very different than regular Canadian fabric stores. None of the fabrics are labelled with regards to fibre content or price.

White people shop for fabric at
quilt-fabric stores (I have never seen anyone but whites at these stores) and at big box fabric stores such as Fabricland (where Sikhs and whites both shop). Chinese don't seem to be much into shopping for fabric, although they sometimes run fabric stores.

At least the Sikhs seem to appreciate beautiful and interesting fabric, unlike Muslims. India has historically been noted for producing beautiful fabric.

Melykin said...

"When the diversity in the US gets bad enough, maybe Canada will take tens of millions of white refugees. Maybe if we ask them really nice"
=======================
Sounds good to me. Come on up. But maybe by that time Canada won't let whites in at all because non-whites will have completely taken over the department which makes such decisions. This seems to have already begun. Mean while white Canadians just stand around like deer-in-the-headlights, not sure what is happening or what to do about it.

Melykin said...

Sam wrote:
Many refugees are simply criminals. I's almost impossible to get rid of them. and even when you do- it costs a fortune- they get multiple appeals and paid legal services.
Many refugees are simply criminals. I's almost impossible to get rid of them. and even when you do- it costs a fortune- they get multiple appeals and paid legal services.

=========================
Very true

Anonymous said...

"In America, thinking about "which applicants offer the greatest long-term value—now or a generation or two down the line?" is just not done"

Rubbish. The green card process has a elitist quota system in place whereby if you are judged to be an "alien of extra-ordinary ability", or an "outstanding researcher", or a person whose work and abilities are in the "national interest",
(BTW, these are all official USCIS terms) you're application for a green card gets a highly accelerated review process, often taking less than six months. As opposed to the five to ten-year waiting period for the less accomplished.

Next time, get your facts right.

Anonymous said...

Melykin, Sikhs have never done no-go zones in India, whereas I fear to enter muslim ghettos even in broad daylight

And in US and UK, most Sikhs are hard working, unlike the muslim welfare sponges

Many sikhs in UK have joined BNP to protect against islamic takeover

jody said...

joachim alcine, a decent boxer who lives in canada, is haitian and speaks english with a french accent. i've never heard him speak french but it seems obvious he is a native french speaker. so, many of the poor people in haiti probably speak french.

Melykin said...

in US and UK, most Sikhs are hard working, unlike the muslim welfare sponges

Many sikhs in UK have joined BNP to protect against islamic takeover

======================

That is good to know. Most of the Sikhs that I know who were born in Canada seem to be pretty much like regular Canadians. They seem to have assimilated. It is mostly the older generation that still wears turbans and traditional cloths. I actually like the look of traditional Indian clothes such as saris but I rarely see them now.

Gorbachev said...

There are lots of strong opinions here.

I wonder: what's the acculturation rate? Several Canadians told me that by the third generation, immigrants are generally absorbed into the general population in Canada.

I wonder if this is true.

David said...

>The green card process has a elitist quota system in place whereby [...] you're [sic] application for a green card gets a highly accelerated review process, often taking less than six months. As opposed to the five to ten-year waiting period for the less accomplished.<

Another sucker who abides by the rules and respects laws. Our own federal government doesn't do that much.

Shoulda jumped a fence. Takes 6 minutes. Hundreds do it every day.

Melykin said...

Gorbachev wrote:
"Canadians told me that by the third generation, immigrants are generally absorbed into the general population in Canada."
======================

I think this has been true in the past for immigrants from Europe and Asia. But now the "general population" in some cities is not necessarily English speaking, with western values, etc. Still, the young people do seem to mostly assimilate, I think, if their parents will let them. There is sometimes conflict within a family about this.

I don't think it is true for immigrants from Africa or the Caribbean quite so much. At least not in Toronto where most of them live. There are quite a few problems in that group.

But the minority group with the most problems in Canada is probably First Nations people. I think most of the problems in this group are caused by their tendency to become addicted to alcohol. The parts of the country with the highest crime rates are those that have the highest proportion of First Nations. For example Manitoba and the north (Yukon, Northwest Territories, Nunavut) have the highest crime and rates and the highest portions of aboriginals. (But still not anywhere near as high as some of the bad cities in the USA.)

Anonymous said...

Who cares? Canada had a unique culture that didn't deserve to be wiped off the face of the Earth. Arguments about the economic potential of various immigrant groups are a bit like that old joke that ends with the punchline "we've already settled what you are, we're just haggling over a price."

Anonymous said...

"Even if Canada is somehow screening immigrants to give preference to the theoretically more skilled or higher IQ applicants, if race is not also explicitly considered as a factor you still end up with population replacement. My local American school district is filled with highly-achieving Asians and while crime may be low, so is social cohesion and any sense of being American. Many of them bought houses next door to their parents, who do that free babysitting they consider so necessary to transmit their cultural norms. Does Canada provide something similar to Supplemental Social Security? I'm always astounded at how few people realize what this is and how soon it was reinstated after a short cutoff. Many of the immigrants in my community now quickly apply for this for their parents and install them in subsidized, low-income city apartments and then keep the extra cash for themselves. Every time I see a wizened Chinese couple tottering down the street or a Hindu grandmother with her sari and umbrella, I'm witnessing the joys of Supplemental Social Security."

I know Eastern Euros who came here illegally and now have their mother in subsidized housing. Ridiculous.

I am so sick of all these foreigners in this country of whatever race. I detest them. They are stealing our country from us.

Anonymous said...

"Who cares? Canada had a unique culture that didn't deserve to be wiped off the face of the Earth. Arguments about the economic potential of various immigrant groups are a bit like that old joke that ends with the punchline "we've already settled what you are, we're just haggling over a price."

The same with the US. It's a shame.

Anonymous said...

" hold citizenship in both Canada and the US and lived for a number of years in Vancouver and Toronto."

This is another wrong that should be stopped.

also,All immigratiion is bad, not just illegal.

Anonymous said...

"Canada does not tolerate illegal immigration. You can't get drivers license, driver's insurance, medical care, a mortgage or a job if you cannot prove that you are legally in the country."

You may be horrified (or happy) to know that this is false. Thanks to the 1985 Singh Decision by the Supreme Court of Canada, ANYONE who sets foot on Canadian soil is eligible for healthcare, welfare and other social benefits.