October 18, 2009

Number of Mexicans wanting to move to America down ...

... to a mere 39 million in the latest Zogby poll of Mexicans in Mexico. During the housing bubble, a couple of Pew Polls found 40 to 45 million more Mexicans wanting to move here.

Inductivist has all the details, such as:
- Of Mexicans with a member of their immediate household in the United States,65 percent said a legalization program would make people they know more likely to go to America illegally.

- An overwhelming majority (69 percent) of people in Mexico thought that the primary loyalty of Mexican-Americans should be to Mexico. Just 20 percent said it should be to the United States. The rest were unsure.

My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

People are soon going to want to move out of the US. The USG has made it very expensive what with realization of all capital gains (and payment of all capital gains taxes) on departure, plus a presumption that you left to avoid taxes so the next ten years of your income is subject to US income taxes even if you do not live here, are not a citizen, etc.

Soon it will be like Cuba, dangerous to your life and limb to withdraw from the USA.

Mark said...

I think it has to be pretty clear by now that economic near-collapse is the only thing that'll keep America from demographic destruction: more Asians staying at home because of greater opportunities there, and less tolerance of immigration by the Latin unskilled for want of job opportunities here.

Virtually every prediction shows the US maintaining near-10% unemployment at least through the end of next year and, given Obama's socialist policies, more reasons for more people to stay out of the job market, or to work in the underground economy.

There was an article a few weeks back, I forget where, showing presidential popularity over the years tracking almost exactly with unemployment data. If Democrats want to stay in power unemployment has to decline. With continued high levels of immigration, especially by the unskilled, it won't.

Otis the Sweaty said...

"If Democrats want to stay in power unemployment has to decline. With continued high levels of immigration, especially by the unskilled, it won't."


Unlimited Hispanic immigration is held sacred by both parties. The Dems would never consider restricting immigration under any circumstances, but they certainly won't consider it now with the way they are hurting among Latinos.

Andrea said...

We have to keep in mind that this isn't just economic. Most Mexicans feel that moving to the US--at least the SW part--is only moving back to OLD MEXICO(lost to gringo)that must be reclaimed by Mexicans. That is the real danger of illegal Mexican immigration. Many or most Mexicans feel about SW territories the way Palestinians feel about Israel.

Mark said...

Unlimited Hispanic immigration is held sacred by both parties. The Dems would never consider restricting immigration under any circumstances, but they certainly won't consider it now with the way they are hurting among Latinos.

In order to govern the majority party has to at least occasionally give the electoral majority something it wants. It wants lower unemployment and enforced immigration laws, and it needs lower deficit spending. There is only one way to reasonably do both - less unskilled immigration. Even businesses will soon be forced to realize this.

If there is only one option that provides the answer to dire problems then eventually someone will have to try that option, if only after trying everything else. If Democrats won't give us this then at some point we will elect Republicans to do it. With both 1+ trillion dollar deficits and 10%+ unemployment as far as the eye can see, that day will come very soon.

Mark said...

Most Mexicans feel that moving to the US--at least the SW part--is only moving back to OLD MEXICO(lost to gringo)that must be reclaimed by Mexicans.

Whenever someone tells me that the US "stole" half of Mexico I am forced to inform them that the 1850 census showed less than 170,000 people total living in California, the Utah Territory, and the New Mexico Territory. Around half of these people were English speaking Americans. This was true even though Guadalupe Hidalgo allowed Mexicans in ceded territories to remain and mostly to keep their lands.

California in 1850 recorded 92,597 people (in 1860, only 10 years after US control, it had increased four-fold, to 379,994) the Utah Territory had 11,380, most English-speaking Mormons; and
the New Mexico Territory had only 61,547.

In contrast, in 1850 the state of Alabama alone had 771,623 residents.

It may have been part of Mexico, or at least claimed by them, but they hadn't been doing much with it.

Rohan Swee said...

Mark: I think it has to be pretty clear by now that economic near-collapse is the only thing that'll keep America from demographic destruction: more Asians staying at home because of greater opportunities there, and less tolerance of immigration by the Latin unskilled for want of job opportunities here.

Expecting the Invisible Hand to avert displacement in the nick of time is whitey's version of ghost dancing.

Mr. Anon said...

"Mark said...

Whenever someone tells me that the US "stole" half of Mexico I am forced to inform them.....

It may have been part of Mexico, or at least claimed by them, but they hadn't been doing much with it."

Quite so. There's also this to add: Upon what legal basis does Mexico claim Norte California and the American Southwest? Because it was some of the land that they wrested from the Spanish when they secceded from the Spanish Empire? Ultimately, Mexico's claim to our land was inherited from the Spanish claim, and the Spanish just claimed it by right of conquest, no different than us. Mexico's claim to the land is that of an imperialist hegemon. So screw 'em.

StephenT said...

Mark writes: "It may have been part of Mexico, or at least claimed by them, but they hadn't been doing much with it."

Remember that Pio Pico, the last governor of CA under Mexican control, was so dismayed by the LACK of his countrymen in CA that he actually ran advertisements in Mexican newspapers trying to entice Mexicans to come and build a new land. They didn't. Anglos did. California was still a rustic frontier. The truth is, the mestizo Mexican culture has never been one of pioneering trailblazers venturing forth into uncharted wilderness. They tend instead toward the squatter mentality and arrive in numbers only after somebody else has developed an infrastructure to the point where it can be exploited by them -- usually if and when it reaches a level of development where there is a surfeit of mindless, menial labor to be done. Until that time, you just don't see many Mexicans around.

Also interesting is that Pico was unhappy with the large ratio of native Americans vs. Mexicans populating early CA. This tends to undercut the idea of many open borders advocates that native Americans of the southwest were actually just Mexicans in disguise -- and thus modern Mexicans have some sort of claim on the land. Obviously, Mexican governor Pico did NOT consider California Indians to be Mexicans.

StephenT said...

Another illuminating thing about this survey is that there is no mention whatsoever of citizenship. Americans in more sheltered parts of the country, who still have a view of immigrants yearning to adopt this country and wave a little American flag in a naturalization ceremony, may be surprised to know that, despite all their demands for amnesty, most Mexicans have no interest at all in becoming American citizens. They are, in fact, hostile to the idea. You could pass out free citizenship cards to fill out at the border and I doubt 5% would take you up on it. Instead, Mexicans passionately yearn for amnesty -- something entirely different from a desire for citizenship. The ramifications of this distinction are deep on several levels. For almost every previous group of immigrants to this country, gaining American citizenship was the end of the rainbow. For Mexicans, however, the dream is amnesty -- the freedom to come by the multi-millions,to break our laws, and to stay.

eh said...

OT, but worth it:

20 y/o 'first generation' immigrant from Guatemala buys a house with an FHA insured loan and only 3.5% down

If you can believe that.

Anonymous said...

Im not buying the full Mexico - Palestine story for the reasons stated.

Argentine children are encouraged to believe the Falklands belonged to them yet no Argentinians (well one or two) have ever lived on the islands, or Spanish for that matter - the cliam dates back to before Argentinas existence.

Anyhow the Argentine claim is entirely territorial. In no sense have actual Argentinians living or dead actually been displaced, wronged or otherwise inconvenienced.

The Mexican claim on parts of the US has a slightly more substantial basis than that - but not much more.

Anonymous said...

"We have to keep in mind that this isn't just economic. Most Mexicans feel that moving to the US--at least the SW part--is only moving back to OLD MEXICO(lost to gringo)that must be reclaimed by Mexicans. That is the real danger of illegal Mexican immigration. Many or most Mexicans feel about SW territories the way Palestinians feel about Israel."


At least the Palestinians were actually living in Palestine and Israel.

The formerly Mexican parts of the US were given up largely because they were not only uninhabited, they were uninhabitable. Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, California have huge deserts. Anyway, the residents of those territories didn't up and leave and go back to Mexico. So the whole idea is bogus. Most of the population of Mexico is from the south not the north. I have family that lived in Arizona from before 1900. You couldn't grow a damned thing there without irrigation. The tiny native population didn't run off to Mexico, nor did the settlers. They stayed right there when Arizona became a US territory and later a state. If anything more Mexicans moved to Arizona because it was no longer Mexico! Not unlike today.

I guess they don't teach history in Mexico either.

The love of Mexican emigrants for the rathole they are leaving requires Roissy to explain it.

Mark said...

Expecting the Invisible Hand to avert displacement in the nick of time is whitey's version of ghost dancing.

Maybe, if you put too much faith in it. But the Invisible Hand is helping and in this case I'd probably refer to it as the Iron Law.

Otis the Sweaty said...

"If there is only one option that provides the answer to dire problems then eventually someone will have to try that option, if only after trying everything else. "


That's the thing, they really don't. What you are saying should happen, but for whatever reason the government will never crack down on illegal immigration. I don't know why, exactly, but they never will no matter what; no matter which party is in charge.

David said...

> But the Invisible Hand is helping and in this case I'd probably refer to it as the Iron Law. <

Yuh...now we only got 30 million wanting to invade, instead of 60 million or whatever. And - per Iron Law, when (if) the economy ticks up - we'll see the number rise again.

The real Iron Law is that wealth attracts people. Until the US is as poor or unstable as Mexico, massive numbers of our little southern buddies will be banging on our door. The debate is over whether to leave that door wide open and die, or to shut it and live. Fewer American natives want to live than is commonly assumed. These are the people we must break from politically and in every other way.

David said...

Otis the Sweaty said

> for whatever reason the government will never crack down on illegal immigration. I don't know why, exactly, but they never will no matter what; no matter which party is in charge. <

Here (PDF).