April 15, 2009

Tierney: "Single Female Seeking Same-Race Male"

John Tierney blogs in the New York Times about a study of "speed-dating" Columbia University:
There’s also a clear gender divide, as the researchers note: “Women of all races exhibit strong same race preferences, while men of no race exhibit a statistically significant same race preference.”

That part about men having no preference sounds a bit like an artifact of doing the study at an Ivy League school where men have to be on their guard for ideological deviancy. Ivy League women, in contrast, would just slough off charges of racism with Ivy League feminist-quality logic: "I can't be a racist because I'm a feminist!"

Here are the study's results for women:

African-American women said yes about 30 percent less often to Hispanic men; about 45 percent less often to white men; about 65 percent less often to Asian men.

White women said yes about 30 percent less often to black or Hispanic men, and about 65 percent less often to Asian men.

Hispanic women said yes about 20 percent less often to black or white men, and 50 percent less often to Asian men.

Asian women didn’t discriminate much by race (except for showing a very slight preference for Asian men over black or Hispanic men).

And now you know why the Bitter Asian Men are so bitter.

My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer

93 comments:

Rick Ross said...

Steve, no offense, but are you so old that you can't remember what it was like in college?

The top "alpha" males/jocks are cleaning up on the choice female hotties, a few guys are in serious committed relationships, and most guys are desperately maneuvering and scrounging to get any kind of action, and I mean any.

Guys aren't looking for anything longer than a weekend or two, maybe a semester, max.

I don't think guys were revealing their preferences for long term, committed relationships, or even relationships after college. They were revealing, consciously or subconsciously, that they would basically nail anything they can get their hairy mitts on.

Anonymous said...

Rick Ross said...
Steve, no offense, but are you so old that you can't remember what it was like in college? The top "alpha" males/jocks are cleaning up on the choice female hotties, a few guys are in serious committed relationships, and most guys are desperately maneuvering and scrounging to get any kind of action, and I mean any.
.


Wow. What college did YOU go to?

But I do agree that most college age guys don't particularly care what race a girl is, only how good-looking she is.

agnostic said...

I'm disappointed and saddened by the exclusivity of the "study," which only serves to further marginalize the postcolonial voices of women of color in the Middle East.

As a corrective, I seek grant funding to become a participant-spectator in the mating habits of Lebanese and Persian women.

The intellectual merit requires no further elaboration. The broader impact of the proposed project will be to amplify the silenced voices of Persian female mating experiences.

headache said...

"I can't be a racist because I'm a feminist!"How about:
"I can't be a racist because I'm a racist!"


Sounds about right in today's intellectually challenged academic environment.

Anonymous said...

[i]That part about men having no preference sounds a bit like an artifact... Ivy League women, in contrast, would just slough off charges of racism with Ivy League feminist-quality logic: "I can't be a racist because I'm a feminist!"[/i]

This PC groupthink explanation clearly falls short since the lack of preference applies to all the men studied, not just the white men. The non-white men could use this facile identity reasoning just as easily, "I'm not a racist because I am a person of color."

John Craig said...

"feminist-quality logic"

Perfect.

Svigor said...

But I do agree that most college age guys don't particularly care what race a girl is, only how good-looking she is.Trouble is, you have to select somehow or you'll end up seeing "how good-looking she is" used as a proxy for race, and wind up with similar results.

travis said...

The Binghamton shooter purposely set out to kill female immigrants, the group of women with whom he had the best chance of finding a mate. Clearly he failed rejected by them. But this angle to the story never got covered after the "angry white man goes on rampage at immigration center" failed to materialize. Time to move on to the pirate story.

bbartlog said...

When the researchers controlled for the men’s attractiveness, they found that white, Hispanic and Asian women generally showed about the same level of same-race preferenceIf you reason backwards from this, it's evident that Asian men are perceived as extremely unattractive; that is, Asian women *do* prefer Asian men on some level, but that effect is cancelled out by the lack of attractiveness of Asian men.

I don't think guys were revealing their preferences for long term, committed relationshipsMaybe you should click through and read the post; they address this.

Shawn said...

I agree with what Rick Ross said...guys are just trying to get laid....when it comes to LTR, we exhibit same race preferences.

Chu said...

I know Steve you focus on other attributes like muscularity in your other article on interracial marriage but have you considered the sample?

400 grad students from Columbia.

Have you considered how many of the Asian men could be from Asia? Their foreign-ness no doubt adds a distance between them and culturally different women.

Anonymous said...

By the PC definition of "racists", only oppressors (straight white males) can be racists because they are the only ones with power in this sick, sick society. From the oppressed such behavior is called struggling for social justice (aka no justice, no peace).

Did you neanderthal oppressors even go to college or ever pick up a NYTimes?

M. Simon said...

The ideal face for women - across all races - is the white northern European woman.

I haven't searched the article but it is out there and got a lot of play.

No doubt a search on "ideal female face" would bring up articles and a picture or two.

Another way of cross checking is to see what kind of face appears most often in advertising in various cultures.

Another way is to look at income of female models.

Anonymous said...

overwhelmingly, non-african men do not want african women. anybody who says otherwise is clueless or lying, because this is THE rule, the most reliable phenomenon, of interracial sex in the modern, global world.

indeed, this is the effect that has prevented european nations that participated in the african slave trade, from becoming mulatto nations. white men with access to black women don't want them.

as i've posted before, if the US had primarily used chinese peasants for labor instead of african slaves, america would be well on it's way to becoming the first eurasian nation. attractive east asian/southeast asian females are considered "doable" by men of all races.

Ronduck said...

Steve the first link on your the Google search you posted is to urban dictionary. The entry links to your article Is Love Colorblind.

rob said...

If I had to guess, African-American women at elite universities are mainly old and new mulatto elites. Many white guys find half or less black women attractive. But I only once saw a white guy flirt with an actually-black woman. Not that it doesn't happen, just not much.

I think Rick is also onto something. Kanazawa over at psychology today's blog pointed out a study that obese women had more sex partners than healthy women. If men had the choice, we'd have sex with thin women. So the study shows women are the ones exercising control in short-term mating. After all, everyone's heard the phrase "****ing a ___ woman is like riding a moped. It's fun, but you don't want your friends to see you do it."

Tierney didn't say, but the study may actually have found that men had no racial preference after controlling for women's attractiveness, and might find women of some races less attractive, on average, than women of other races.

Women's taste in men varies with the menstrual cycle, and I doubt the study controlled for that.

Anonymous said...

Our elites realize multiculturalism is a failure, soon race mixing will become mandatory. At the very least it will become illegal to state such preferences.

rec1man said...

I am not sure whether Asian includes south asian

I do know for a fact that most Indian parents in the US are very status conscious and insistent that their kids only marry a college graduate. This would put most blacks and hispanics out of bounds

I have heard in the Indian diaspora, parents tell their kids dont bring home a black or a muslim

A very large proportion of Indian outmarriage are with jews since most jews are college educated and judaism is a non-proselytising religion
I personally have 2 relatives married to jews. One of them a PhD

At the other end of the socio-economic spectrum, a large number of Jat sikhs have married hispanic women. Google up 'Mexican Hindu'

Razib has some data that shows Indian marriage with orientals is virtually non-existent

Anonymous said...

The modern, politically correct, multicultural utopia is bookended by very bitter Asian males on one far side of the spectrum, and very bitter African females on the other far side.

Anonymous said...

--Wow. What college did YOU go to?--

Maybe the one from that Tom Wolfe book...

-Charlotte

another anon said...

Anon wrote: "most college age guys don't particularly care what race a girl is, only how good-looking she is."

Yeah, but most black girls aren't attractive to white males. Those that are, are typically more than 50% white anyway.

Ronduck said...

overwhelmingly, non-african men do not want african women. Overwhelmingly African men do not want African women. Look at Tiger Woods, he married a swede and his dad married a Thai. Blacks only settle for their own women when they have no choice in the matter.

mmack said...

So guys will sleep with any woman who looks good to them? Hmmm, who knew?

In other news, water is wet and fire is hot.

Captain Jack Aubrey said...

I dispute your conclusion.

You're at an Ivy League university, you say? What are the two main races? White and Asian. White men are generally fine dating Asian women, but white women tend not to date Asian men. So a white guy might not list a preferred race while white women would definitely want to. Asian men would generally be fine dating white women, if they'd go out with them.

You'd have to break out the data by race, but it's not very surprising.

Anonymous said...

Is there any scientific evidence for a universal standard of human beauty?

I'm skeptical that there would be a universal standard because (in theory) every male member of a continental race should have evolved to generally prefer women of his own ethnic group...

Svigor said...

Blacks only settle for their own women when they have no choice in the matter.True only if you disregard the one drop rule; famous black men go for "black" women - the closer to one drop, the better.

Anonymous said...

"Asian men would generally be fine dating white women, if they'd go out with them."

Not every group follows the black male pattern. Hispanic and Asian men could well prefer familiar looking women.

Human Tom said...

in theory) every male member of a continental race should have evolved to generally prefer women of his own ethnic groupStudies have shown that the most beautiful face according to your perception, is the averaging of every face you've encountered and stored in your memory.

Theoretically, this should mean that a white man who is raised in an exclusively black village in Africa and has no exposure to the media should be attracted to black women.

Victoria said...

. . . this is the effect that has prevented european nations that participated in the african slave trade, from becoming mulatto nations. white men with access to black women don't want them.Are you sure it works like this? I have no doubt that black women are the least preferred in terms of long-term mating, but since when do men care about quick fixes? In that session I once mentioned, where black, hispanic and white women in my office evaluated the choices of various ethnic men, it was determined that, indeed, black women were the least desired.

But your comment about European slavery is strange. To what degree were African slaves dragged over to Europe and employed as they were in the American colonies? Were hundreds of thousands of them used in intimate work and home situations? I don't think so. White men who had absolute access to their women slaves here in the U.S. appear to have taken full advantage of this. After all, what's the advantage of slavery, if you can't have access to the women?

Why would the white men of Europe behave any differently from the white men in the Americas, if the slavery experience had been similar, i.e., lots of African females, close-up?

Victoria said...

Overwhelmingly African men do not want African women. Look at Tiger Woods, he married a swede and his dad married a Thai. Blacks only settle for their own women when they have no choice in the matter. Or the successful black man, say, a clever smart-ass like Obama, settles, when he has a long-term agenda that he knows will not work, if he tries to walk through that door with a blondie on his arm. I think it was that Dickerson woman (Professor?), who pointed out early on how noble it was of Obama to choose a black woman for his wife. The tone of her discussion was that, naturally, he had better options.

Anonymous said...

--Wow. What college did YOU go to?--

Maybe the one from that Tom Wolfe book...
.
Heh. But methinks Rick overstates things. Since females make up the majority of students at most colleges, and since only a few males make up the alpha-male jock population, there should be plenty of women left over for the beta males (unless the alpha jocks have vast harems or something). The only guys left "desperately maneuvering and scrounging to get any kind of action" are probably hopeless cases anyway, who wouldn't stand a chance even if there weren't any alpha jocks around.

Peter Frost said...

Anon asked: "Is there any scientific evidence for a universal standard of human beauty?"

I addressed this question in my article: "Sexual selection and human geographic variation"
www.jsecjournal.com/NEEPSfrost.pdf


Today, human mate-choice criteria are thought to vary mostly between men and women (Buss, 1999, pp. 97-160). Humans also vary in their ability to translate such
criteria into actual mate choice, as a result of culture-specific rules and situational constraints that vary from one geographic setting to the next. But the criteria themselves seem to vary little among human populations. Children as young as 2-3 months old look longer at female faces that adults have rated as attractive, be they white infants looking at faces of black women rated by black men or black infants looking at faces of white women rated by white men (Langlois et al., 2000; Langlois et al., 1991; Langlois et al., 1987; Langlois & Stephen, 1977). Similar findings have been obtained with adults of various racial/ethnic origins (Bernstein et al., 1982; Cunningham et al., 1995; Maret,
1983; Miller, 1969; Perrett et al., 1994).

In the most comprehensive of these studies, Cunningham et al. (1995) assessed mate-choice criteria among men of different ethnic backgrounds: Taiwanese, White Americans, Black Americans, and recently arrived Asian and Hispanic students. All of them perceived a female face to be more attractive if it had high eyebrows, widely spaced large eyes with dilated pupils, high cheekbones, a small nose, a narrow face with thin cheeks, a large smile, a full lower lip, a small chin, and a full hairstyle.

There was some variation among the participants. East Asian men tended to prefer immature and inexpressive faces whereas Black American men opted more for women with large buttocks and heavy body build. These tendencies have been observed by others. Jones (2000) notes a stronger preference for large buttocks among African-descended Brazilians. Conversely, Wagatsuma (1967, p. 162) states that full-bodied women are less attractive to East Asian men.

... Whatever the cause, there seems to be much less variation within our species in mate-choice criteria than in those physical traits, like hair length and color, that Darwin believed to be shaped by sexual selection.

Anonymous said...

"At the other end of the socio-economic spectrum, a large number of Jat sikhs have married hispanic women. Google up 'Mexican Hindu'"They married Mexicans because they weren't allowed to bring over their own wives from India and were legally prohibited from marrying whites. In Boston, Indian sailors intermarried with blacks several hundred years ago. In Argentina, Punjabis intermarried with white Argentines.

Andrew Oh-Willeke said...

There preferrence percentages in the study are far smaller across the board than the preferences indirectly observed in marriage rates.

Asian women have the highest outmarriage rates, partially because daughters are encouraged by parents to assimilate to avoid Asian gender preferences for men, while sons are often given the Asian style favoritism they would receive in the old country. Not surprisingly, this makes them less attractive to their assimilated Asian-American female peers when they become adults -- causing many to seek Asian spouses abroad who are more comfortable with traditional Asian gender roles.

Anonymous said...

Black American men opted more for women with large buttocks and heavy body build. These tendencies have been observed by others.You don't say.

Seriously though, even studies that affirm the obvious are useful when obvious, common-sensical observations are constantly being attacked as racist and evil. To the brainwashed masses "but that's a cliche" is apparently a valid counterargument.

rob said...

comment about European slavery is strange. To what degree were African slaves dragged over to Europe...White men who had absolute access to their women slaves here in the U.S. appear to have taken full advantage of this.Victoria, guy probably used used European as a racial, not national, classification. As to American whites taking full advantage of access, rough estimation contradicts the assertion.

Say 400 years from purely African to ~17-25% European. 400 years is about 20 generations. If mixed children all remained within the African-American population, and if mixing was exclusively white man, black female, roughly 1% of the children black women had each generation had white fathers. Whites outnumbered blacks ~3:1 or so through most of the South. Maybe 1 in 2 or 300 white men took reproductive advantage of the enslaved population.

None of the assumptions are perfect, but they're pretty close. self-identified white Americans have very little African ancestry, so mixed children stayed within the black population(Or didn't have children). The second assumption is less solid. Some African-Americans have European maternal DNA. Cornell West comes to mind.

If one were a history buff, it would be interesting to compare historical prices for young African-American women with and without children to relative prices for Roman slaves. Can't remember a citation, but I've read that young women without children sold for a premium compared to slaves who were pregnant or had kids in Rome. indicating, well, what you think that indicates.

jody said...

victoria - when i say "european", it's a synonym for "white". just being precise. the colonies of england, france, spain, and portugal all participated in the african slave trade. later, the US and brazil continued to import slaves decades after england and portugal had ceased colonial operations.

today there are now over 40 million africans in the US alone. white american males who have access to black american females, which is almost all of them, are overwhelmingly not interested. white males come into contact with black females every day. they see them, they talk to them, they deal with them. in most cities, a white guy can get phone numbers from black women if they want.

but they don't. because black women are not attractive at all. pure blooded african females are easily the least attractive women in the world. for most white males, black females are not sexual targets. white males barely even recognize that black females are potential mates. they simply don't think about them that way.

now, if there were 40 million descendants of chinese laborers instead, things would be vastly different. there would be hundreds of interracial "targets" at every school, and dozens at every job and bar. there would be lots of beautiful chinese american women like kiana tom, the woman who did "kiana's flex appeal" for ESPN. descended from chinese immigrants over 100 years ago, i think white men are pretty interested in women like that. one of them married her.

testing99 said...

College? Not much different from historical norms, where 80% of women reproduced but only 20% of men did.

Women, particularly in College, will and do share a few dominant, "Big Men" since there is little downside. One of the big cultural shifts has been in female willingness to share Big Men without social condemnation in the new, urban, mobile, anonymous, and effective contraception-informed society.

Women prefer a slice of the Big Man to all of Joe Average. The extreme gender imbalances in non Tier 1 colleges (as much as 57-43 women-men) only moderates the preference of women for sharing, once Joe College leaves college, he can often endure years of dry spells.

Generally, however even in College which is a four year party (or was), same-race preferences are strong and clearly observable.

TGGP said...

A blogger who once gave me an award for idiocy has related material here.

Chu said...

Please don't forget Ethiopian women are very attractive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJKKeEYDUBk (music video)

Anonymous said...

In 2001, according to the U.S. Census, 43.3 percent of black men and 41.9 percent of black women in America had never been married, in contrast to 27.4 percent and 20.7 percent respectively for whites.(from the Washington Post)

79.3% of all white women have been married. Moreover, 72.6% of men managed to find a woman to marry them for at least a little while. I don't know what town you're living in T99, but it ain't on any of the maps, apparently. I know plenty of geeky beta, delta and even omega males who manage to find themsleves a woman.

Anonymous said...

[i]"At the other end of the socio-economic spectrum, a large number of Jat sikhs have married hispanic women. Google up 'Mexican Hindu'"They married Mexicans because they weren't allowed to bring over their own wives from India and were legally prohibited from marrying whites. In Boston, Indian sailors intermarried with blacks several hundred years ago. In Argentina, Punjabis intermarried with white Argentines. [/i]

Yet another example of Rec1man's empirical sloppiness, quite likely intentional in this case. Even though there is no doubt he is aware at the analytical level that IQ differences are statistical and not categorical, his comments always portray caste as an idealized, discrete entity with it's members all having consistent traits. He consistently and erroneously attributes Bobby Jindal's success to his having Khatri caste origins when he is in fact a Bania and neglects that the first Indian American in congress was from the backward Tarkan caste with a doctorate degree in mathematics from Berkley. While it's imperative to recognize the truth of HBD and the resultant unequal outcomes for ethnic groups, one should be wary of Indian interpretations that try to bastardize this reality into classic Indian notions of caste with a place and purpose for all it's members.

Anonymous said...

This reminds me of a "Seinfeld" episode where Jerry asks how could be be racists when he likes Asian women.

Anonymous said...

My guess is t99 is lusting for chicks above is pay grade. That's a great way to make yourself miserable and get some strange theories going.

Anonymous said...

A tired subject going nowhere...
the crying panda is cute, though.

Victoria said...

Thanks for explaining the "European" reference.

. . . white american males who have access to black american females, which is almost all of them, are overwhelmingly not interested. I still find it hard to believe that men, any men, give a damn about the type of woman they can bang, without obligations or consequences. It seems to me that Nature conditions men to bang anything and everything in sight and they do so, in the need to release their predator urges. A man conditioned by his society to marry his own kind is another story. But this does not preclude a natural desire for sexual diversity.

The reason why we women in that office concluded that white men will marry into any race, and will marry just about anything, is because each and everyone of us knew white men who were married to colored women of various sorts, including black. Whereas the Hispanic man might bring home a Yankee blonde to show off, in the end he brought home a Spanish-speaking woman as his bride.

Truth said...

I have an interesting hypothetical for everyone here:

Let's say that you were enlisted by a government agency to teach English at a new women's Junior College in West Africa for 3 years. The payoff at the end 20 million dollars tax free. In order to collect you could not leave early. There were going to build for you a beautiful, secure compound so neither safety nor boredom is an issue, you have all of the books, newspapers, televisions, gyms, etc. to keep you occupied.

It will be you and 9 other guys sharing a ten-bedroom house. There are only two catches:

1) You cannot leave the 20 acre complex.

2) The only women you will come in contact with are your local students. Relationships between students and teachers are not only not prohibited, but encouraged as they feel it will be the best way for the students to learn English.

The question is this, especially for those of you who are still young enough to have testosterone;

for the duration of your 3 year period how would you satisfy your sexual urges:

A) Choke the chicken repeatedly.

B) Bungle, your other 9 roommates.

C) Become a celibate monk.

D) Engage in the local talent.

Don't be shy now gentlemen, you know this is interesting.

jody said...

probably the strongest evidence that non-africans are not very interested in africans, is pornography. the whole point, the only reason to do pornography, is to be paid a lot of money for something that requires no skill. yet, the majority of women in pornography will not have sex with african men.

so

1) for several thousand dollars, there are hundreds of women willing to do almost any ridiculous sex act on camera, with a dozen other people watching

unless

2) the men are black. then even quick, low effort, boring and standard sex is not something most of them are willing to do for the same several thousand dollars.

Anonymous said...

A lot of the Asian outmarriage simply has to be numbers. If you're one of five Asians in a class of 30 white kids, you're more likely to wind up going out with one of the white kids than one of the Asian kids.

Around here, Asian/white couples (both directions, though white male/Asian female is more common) don't seem to draw any notice at all; they're just part of the background. Their kids seem to be socially white in essentially all cases. (I'm sure someone somewhere gets around to throwing a racial insult at them, but clearly this isn't having a big impact around here.)

In the absense of significant future Asian immigration, those kids would simply melt into the population, as unremarkable as Greeks or Swedes after a generation or two of mixing.

Wanderer said...

If the US had primarily used chinese peasants for labor instead of african slaves, america would be well on it's way to becoming the first eurasian nation.There already a couple of those; the exSoviet "stans" Uzbek,Kazak,Turkomen,Kyrgyz,Tajiks? The Tatars? The Turkic speakers that rampaged through Asia-Minor during the time of the Crusades through 1453?

All were/are racially "Eurasian".

All were/are also totally backwards peoples only good at raiding and conquering. (Taking over the Byzantine Empire and extensively mixing with the vast pool of natives "civilized" the Turks in Asia-Minor. Today's Turkish genepool probably isn't over 10% racially-mongoloid (supposedly 20% of modern Turkish genes come from the Seljuks and Osmanis and other of the original Turkic invaders...those groups themselves were already Eurasian by the time they began their conquests; 20%/2=10).

We all know that the Oriental peoples have high IQs and are capable of advanced civilization, as are the European peoples. But is it possible that extensive mixing of the two causes degeneration? All examples of past and present Eurasian peoples suggests it might.

Wanderer said...

M.Simon wrote:
The ideal face for women - across all races - is the white northern European woman.
No doubt a search on "ideal female face" would bring up articles and a picture or two.
Here is one:
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/9479/idealfemaleface.png

(from "The Visual-Cultural Reader", p.689) http://books.google.com/books?id=lcRvU3w33jsC


Seems pretty intuitive.

Wanderer said...

Victoria wrote:
To what degree were African slaves dragged over to Europe and employed as they were in the American colonies? Were hundreds of thousands of them used in intimate work and home situations? I don't think so.This was the case in Portugal. 10% of the population was black slaves as of the 1600s, I think. They totally absorbed them; such that today only the upper classes of Portugal have no trace of African blood.

(The decline of Portugal during the course of the second millenium AD was constantly used by U.S. segregationists in the 50s and 60s as a warning of what happens when true black-white "integration" occurs. Though there were plenty of reasons for it. Extremely inept white leadership was probably more of a cause than miscegenation... there was that one king who tried to start a crusade but was so inept in the field that he wound up getting the bulk of the Portuguese nobility wiped out in his first battle in Morocco...)

Svigor said...

in most cities, a white guy can get phone numbers from black women if they want.I do observe that black females are less receptive to white males than to black males, but that doesn't explain the numbers. Anecdotal, but in my experience black women do respond if you flirt a bit, or even just do more than gloss over them like furniture.

Svigor said...

probably the strongest evidence that non-africans are not very interested in africans, is pornography.I'm actually kind of astonished at how many white female "porn stars" won't "work" with black men. Especially so given the obviously immense pressure coming from "management."

Svigor said...

We all know that the Oriental peoples have high IQs and are capable of advanced civilizationBut Mongolians (probably a lot more similar to the contributing pools you speak of than Han Chinese, or Koreans, or Japanese), not so much, at least according to a recent comment here. Asians are diverse too.

Anonymous said...

Truth said...
"I have an interesting hypothetical for everyone here..."

Is this supposed to be a serious "thought experiment"?

D), obviously, as long as the young women are free of diseases and we have access to reliable contraceptives. I'm also assuming that the young women are at least reasonably attractive, not hideous she-beasts.

Truth said...

"Is this supposed to be a serious "thought experiment"?"

Absolutely. Whenever a thread regarding the sexual attractiveness of black females comes along, there is a harmonic voice of disgust, almost repulsion, at the thought of one of the everyday bloggers ever sleeping with one. This led me to an interesting thought; Is the repulsion for one imagining himself sleeping with a woman with black skin and features stronger than the repulsion for one imagining himself committing a homosexual act.

Given two choices, a white male answering this question can either enter sexual relationships with;

1) A female black person, or

2) a male white person.

I think it is quite an interesting question, and I guess that you would choose 1. I can only surmise from the posts that many of the posters here would choose option 2.

Anonymous said...

Truth said...
Given two choices, a white male answering this question can either enter sexual relationships with;
1) A female black person, or
2) a male white person.
I think it is quite an interesting question, and I guess that you would choose 1. I can only surmise from the posts that many of the posters here would choose option 2
.

I see what you did there.

Anonymous said...

In the porn field
Top female white porn stars like
Seka and Marilyn Chambers started sleeping with blacks 35 years ago
For the last 30 years, almost every white female porn star has slept with black men

Black men are in demand in the porn industry, due to their large genitals
There is a whole genre of films
'Blacks and Blondes'

Black women on the other hand are absent in the porn industry

It is a matter of audience prefences. The mostly white audience does not want to see black women
As far as the porn stars go,
most of them are bisexual and will also act in gay films

Most porn starlets also work as escorts, charging $2000 per session
and as such sleep with whomever has the cash, irrespective of race

Anonymous said...

Truth,

Your extruded hypotheticals only underscore the point: most black women--other than 8-10 outliers often with lots of white admixture--are not sexually desirable to most white men, and even less so for long term relationships or childbearing. By contrast, white women ranging from 5 up can attract the attentions of most white men.

--Senor Doug

Truth said...

"our extruded hypotheticals only underscore the point: most black women--other than 8-10 outliers often with lots of white admixture--are not sexually desirable to most white men,"

That may be, but what's your answer?

rob said...

Truth, you're argument is that since hetero white men would rather have sex with black women than with dudes, white men find black women attractive?

That's a pretty low standard for attractive.

The easy demonstration that white men don't find black women attractive is the dearth of black women in porno marketed to whites.

My guess is that black women look too masculine for the white eye. Probably why black comedians have the dress like a black woman bit. It's funny because white people think black women look like dudes.

Also, most white men aren't interested in massive asses. Or thick, or protuding, or whatever.

I would totatlly believe that black women find white men unappealing as well.

Donny Deutsch said...

"Most porn starlets also work as escorts, charging $2000 per session
and as such sleep with whomever has the cash, irrespective of race"

Now I know why Steve still lives in LA, despite all the Hispanos there.

LA's the home of the porn industry, and Steve wants to be near the talent.

I guess that's what all my donations to Steve's site have been paying for.

Svigor said...

Whenever a thread regarding the sexual attractiveness of black females comes along, there is a harmonic voice of disgust, almost repulsion, at the thought of one of the everyday bloggers ever sleeping with one.It always goes back to the definition of black. I've had opportunities with high yella gals I found attractive, and didn't pursue them because my penis isn't in charge. But if you mean strictly black, I've only ever found a handful moderately attractive. The phenotype distance just seems too great.

This led me to an interesting thought; Is the repulsion for one imagining himself sleeping with a woman with black skin and features stronger than the repulsion for one imagining himself committing a homosexual act.Uhm, you could've just asked the question. Obviously the answer is no.

Homosexual acts are outside my voluntary behavior range. I'd have to be threatened with losing a limb, a family member, etc., to engage in homosexual acts.

Interracial sex is not outside my voluntary behavior range. I just find the vast majority of fully black women unattractive (not just a physical thing btw), especially relative to white women, and object to interracial sex on socio-political grounds (especially in our current context). Strand me for life on a desert island with black women (particularly Ghanian women from what I hear) and I'd change my tune PDQ.

(P.S., I'm probably not the only white guy to have found more than one black woman pretty or aesthetically pleasing WITHOUT finding them attractive)

rec1man said...

Responding to Anon
regarding Jindal, thanks for clarifying he is a bania
Nevertheless, banias are merchant castes and business magnates in India
Jindals control the Aluminum Industry in India
remember Jindal Aluminium


As for Tarkan caste sikhs
Tarkans are skilled artisans by caste and hence likely to have much higher 'g' than Jat peasants, even though the Jats rank higher
in the caste heirarchy

Truth said...

"Truth, you're argument is that since hetero white men would rather have sex with black women than with dudes, white men find black women attractive?"

No. it's not my argument, as a matter of fact, it's not even AN argument, simply a question, and I do not take it to be a fact that white men would prefer to be with black women than white men, I would have two days ago, now I'm not so sure seeing as how no one has given me a definitive answer.

silver said...

yet, the majority of women in pornography will not have sex with african men.Source?

In the absense of significant future Asian immigration, those kids would simply melt into the population, as unremarkable as Greeks or Swedes after a generation or two of mixing.That's an excellent reason to separate right there. It won't really be "assimilation." It'll just be an endlessly agonizing search for identity and meaning; in other words, we'll all turn into rec1man.

Truth said...

"Homosexual acts are outside my voluntary behavior range. I'd have to be threatened with losing a limb, a family member, etc., to engage in homosexual acts."

Even if it was the blonde from "Hanson"?

Anonymous said...

Nah, Troof is saying that any white guy who doesn't find black women attractive is a fag. That's what he's saying. And by the way, Troof, at least one person DID give you a definitive answer.

Anonymous said...

Truth thought his clumsy sleight-of-hand would go unnoticed. He originally gave us three options: sex with black women, sex with men, or celibacy/masturbation. Then he drops the third option, giving us a false dilemma: either you have sex with the black women or you turn gay. It's his oh-so-subtle way of calling you guys queer.

Truth said...

"And by the way, Troof, at least one person DID give you a definitive answer."

Yes, ONE; and quite noticably, it wasn't you. Take all the time you need to decide though.

"hen he drops the third option, giving us a false dilemma: either you have sex with the black women or you turn gay."

You didn't come up with an answer, either there, Sparky. The third option ads to the conundrum:

Either you have sex with women, you CHOOSE to turn gay or you are a limpdick with no sex drive in your 20's.

Anonymous said...

Truth, you are being ridiculous. I would MUCH rather have sex with a black woman than with any kind of male. Any man who is not gay would give the same answer. You know this is true. You just think you're being smart by asking silly questions.

Joe Cool said...

Truth: move that hypothetical language school from West Africa to East Africa and you've got deal.

Nerdy Guy said...

Hey Truth, I'll sign up for your african language school. Black women are not my favorite, but considering that I rarely get any kind of women, that school sounds like a good deal. Better to have black women than none at all.

Beta Geek said...

I'l do it with any woman who doesn't chase me away.

Anonymous said...

Ah, Joe Cool, Nerdy Guy, and Beta Geek took the bait. No way they're gonna let Truth insinuate that they're gay!

Truth said...
"Yes, ONE"

So you admit you were lying when you said "no one has given me a definitive answer".


I have an interesting hypothetical for you, Truth:

Let's say you find yourself in Pasqualino's position in Seven Beauties. Do you bang the female Commandant or not?

Don't be shy now, Truth, you know this is interesting.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Truth, you are being ridiculous...You just think you're being smart by asking silly questions.



Yeah, Truth's attempt at slyness somehow reminds me of this disastrous attempt at same:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKwziTJfMbg

rec1man said...

At walmart, I see plenty of fat white women with black boyfriends

Anonymous said...

Re: Rec1man

I'm aware Banias are a merchant caste, I was just pointing out your empirical sloppiness and your overall insinuation that caste is a strong predictor for outcomes at the individual level, rather than just at the group level. In trying to predict Jindal's intelligence and related career success one would be better off knowing that both his parents have advanced degrees in the sciences rather than just his particular caste membership. Caste is likely informative at the level of group outcomes but it doesn't tell you all that much about one individual. Of course thinking it does plays wonderfully into traditional Indian notions of caste but then those are quite distinct from the HBD perspective espoused on this site. BTW, Jindal is a Bania only on his father's side, it's not known what caste his mother is from.

As to a higher mean IQ for Tarkhan vs. Jat Sikhs, this doesn't seem to show itself in superior outcomes for the latter in academic or business success. On the contrary, Tarkhans are regarded as a bit of underachievers in this regard. As to the general assertion that an artisan caste is going to increase g more so than a farmer caste, where is there any data or analysis to back this up, or are you just making it up whole cloth? Cochran and Harpending have made a cogent case that the abstract nature of lending could select for higher g among the Ashekenazim, but where is the case made for craftsmen? We know that evolutionary niches for some populations have led to highly specialized mental abilities without substantially raising IQ, such as with the Eskimo and Aborgines and certain enhanced spatial reasoning ablities. Why should we assume a craftsmen caste would select for higher mean IQ rather than specific perceptual enchancments?

Truth said...

Anonymous 1:

I've never seen seven beauties, from what I read on Wikipedia it looks interesting. If you had a real name, I would say that I would rent it and get back to you, but since I don't know which Anonymous you are, that is impossible. I will rent it anyway ask me again.

Anonymous 2:

I would agree with the Bill Mahr segment Mos Def made Hitchens look like a fool. Here's a man with a high school education asking a man who probably got an Oxford fellowship for clarity and he gets attacked for it, and for attempting to make his own decisions rather than going only with the "rah-rah-rah kill the ragheads" sentiment so prevalent today. Kudos to that young man.

Sparky the Wonder Dog said...

Either you have sex with women, you CHOOSE to turn gay or you are a limpdick with no sex drive in your 20's.

This is really just Truth's sly way of telling us all that if he were stuck in an all-male environment for a while (e.g., in the army in Afghanistan), he'd start cornholing his fellow platoon members rather than prove himself a limpdick eunuch?

It took great courage for you to come out, Truth, even if it was couched in foolish hypotheticals. We respect you even more now!


Agree or disagree with Mr. Definitely's position on the war, his pathetically inept attempt at Socratic irony only made him look like an ignorant buffoon.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"Ah, Joe Cool, Nerdy Guy, and Beta Geek took the bait."

Of course they did: Truth is a master baiter.

rec1man said...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/KD18Ad01.html

In China, white man loses mojo
By Kent Ewing

HONG KONG - As if formerly high-flying Western bankers and financiers haven't suffered enough, now there is an additional indignity: Chinese women have lost interest in them.

According to two recent nationwide surveys by the matchmaking website
hongniang.com, mainland women keen on finding a foreign partner plunged from 42% to 16% over the past year.

For that dramatic decline, you can blame the financial crisis, which has made Western society - especially its male avatars - look unstable to Chinese women considering their romantic



(which tends to be intimately linked to their financial) future.

The decline of the white man's mojo had been evident in Hong Kong since the handover from British rule in 1997, with dating services
reporting that it is rare these days for Chinese women in the city to seek a Western partner. While the British ruled and ensconced themselves in posh homes on Victoria Peak and other exclusive areas in Hong Kong, there was often a cachet attached to dating a Westerner, especially an Englishman.

Anonymous said...

rec1man said...
www.atimes.com/atimes/China/KD18Ad01.html
.

Moneygrubbing Chinese hussies! Time to use Game on 'em! T99 power, activate!

FeministX said...

Steve,

I wrote a belated response to this on my blog, FYI.

http://feministx.blogspot.com/2009/04/steve-sailer-really-is-gem.html

Anonymous said...

"My guess is that black women look too masculine for the white eye. Probably why black comedians have the dress like a black woman bit. It's funny because white people think black women look like dudes."

Response: some of the ignorant comments on here are really ridiculous. There are beautiful women in all ethnic groups and beauty is beauty.
Here is a full-african woman for you: http://www.fashionafrica.com/wp-content/gallery/agbani-darego/In%20Essence%20Magazine.JPG
and here's some ghanaian women for you
http://www.showghana.com/sitefile/A98CC8F5-67E4-FCA1-AA9187CE1DC0D3FC1.jpg
http://www.jamati.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/menaye-donkor.jpg
So please stop your ignorance

Ann said...

I am a white female. I am appalled by some of the things said on this blog about black women being unattractive. Many black women are exquisitely beautiful, just as in any other ethnic group. I believe that blogger (Judy or Jody?) was trying to say Asian women are more beautiful, and that black women are ugly and undesirable. The statement itself is ugly (and ignorant.) It reminds me of ignorant whites I encountered as a child who talked about how "ugly chinky, slanted eye girls" are. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. The way I see it, a beholder who cannot see beauty is the only one who is ugly.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Ann and Anonymous (5/31/09):

The ignorance of some of the comments here is absolutely breathtaking.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Ann, you people here are vile ignorant pieces of work.
Funny thing though, here you are dissecting the beauty of other women, not once have you asked yourself if these women would find any of you attractive. I highly doubt it

Anonymous said...

If massive asses are so unattractive, then why do so many white men go ga-ga over Jennifer Lopez?

OhioStater said...

In the pick up artist community, this is known as the blueprint.

Women have a mental image of a suitable man, and screen men based on this mental image. Of course one of the features is race.

If a suitable man enters her life, he can do whatever he wants with her, since he looks like her type.

However, if you don't fit the blueprint, you will fail miserably if you make your intentions too clear too early. One situation is a single white girl looking for a white male, but is instead approached for a date by a black guy. She will easily reject him without much thought, unless maybe he is rich, really good looking, or famous.

Every now and then in a shopping mall I see a single woman struggle with her baby, and others come to help. As Steve has noticed, race is an extended family, and those helpful bystanders are like aunts and uncles. Women feel more comfortable dating, marrying, and having sex with men of their own race since there are more people that can identify with them and help her in a bind.

Pick up artists generally work with guys that don't fit in, and therefore don't have a natural population of readily datable women.

They say men in these tough situations should fly below the radar, and give the woman a good time before asking for a date. If you do a better job than the "same race" men she's used to, you can slip past her defenses and date her.

There's also a study that says women on the pill prefer men like themselves, but that's a whole different deal.

Anonymous said...

As a black female who was one of the lone black women in my neighborhood growing up and now i find it laughable that the white men here are trying to make it seem like its them who dont like us! Even the article says otherwise!! lol. Youre so pathetic and so desperate to say black women are bad or undesirable. There ARE many attractive black women who the average Wm could only dream of because he won't/can't ever get her, or any really. That's reality. From the hottest bw to the ugliest - most don't like white "boys".

I mentioned where I grew up because I have always had white guys like me, from a young age until now, and the old ones a lot too, like 30/40+ perverts, but mainly my aged guys. I'm 21 now and its clear to me that all of the "bw are so ugly" comments are made BECAUSE this article points out that we overwhelmingly don't want you guys! Even the mixed bw I knew growing up and I both sought out Latinos around, or the few black guys we saw.

So suck it up. The fact that white guys only do this when confronted with the idea that we dislike them, And that they're trying so hard to demean us is proof! Most bm prefer bw, even successful ones, so why mention that? Is there any question why we don't like white guys!??

So no matter how hard you try, this article still proves that its Black women who DON'T want you wm and not the other way around. Ask most bw in college or areas with whites everywhere how hard it is to get a white Guy. Its not. Gosh, we don't like you guys because you're pathetic.

Fyi to the porn comment, its gross but just Google "black girls" and you only get porn. Then look up Asian girls and get dating sites and then ww and get nothing like it. White men are looking this sick stuff up, and then add in that the highest level of men arrested men with black hookers are married white guys! Yuck.

Same story, different time. Ugh.

Jay said...

Wanderer said...

"We all know that the Oriental peoples have high IQs and are capable of advanced civilization, as are the European peoples. But is it possible that extensive mixing of the two causes degeneration? All examples of past and present Eurasian peoples suggests it might. "

You seem to be confusing race with culture. Nomadic raiders from the steppes have completely different cultures from the civilized settled people inside the Great Wall. So of course Turks and Mongols did not seem to be good at anything other than raiding and conquering.

So how many Asian Americans are actually Turks and Mongols?