March 18, 2009

Why they don't get it

The New York Times offers an elaborate quantitative map showing the number of foreign-born people per county over Censuses from 1880 to 2000.

The maps make clear a point I've harped on before: that our NYC/DC/Harvard punditocracy is completely clueless about the multi-generational prospects of Mexican-Americans.

If you look up Mexicans on the NYT's map, there were only 2,138 people of Mexican birth living in Manhattan County in 1980. A goodly fraction of those were likely scions of rich Mexicans working at, say, the U.N. and/or partying at Studio 54. In 1990, there were still only 6,003.

In Washington D.C. in 1980 there were only 514 Mexican-born residents, and in 1990 there were only 1,034.

In Suffolk County, MA, (Boston, Cambridge, etc.), there were 271 in 1980 and 1,006 in 1990.

In other words, Mexican immigrants are a new phenomenon to America's media establishment. So, it's easy to apply Ellis Island-based fantasies to immigrants from Mexico: by the third generation, they'll be doing as well as Italians! Who can say we're wrong? Mexicans in the U.S. are an utterly new phenomenon. There are no track records!

In contrast, in Los Angeles County, there were 33,644 Mexican-born individuals way back in 1920. And there were probably an even larger number of American-born Spanish-surnamed people. In 1980, there were 697,000 Mexican-born folks in LA County. More importantly for analytical purposes, by 1980 there were already a huge number of third, fourth, and fifth-generation people of Mexican descent in LA County.

My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer

57 comments:

Anonymous said...

You'd think the long-term presence of underachieving Puerto Ricans in NYC would have made an impact...

Anonymous said...

Yeah keep talking, Galileo. Trust me, when the verdict comes down you'll be wishing it was house arrest.

John said...

Cambridge is in Middlesex Co. That doesn't refute your point. I'm just sayin.

Anonymous said...

The mental fogginess surrounding the whole topic of Mexicans is to their great political advantage. They get to pass as European-ish to clueless Anglos when they want to, and pass as non-Europeanish and play the race card when they want to.

They have a great political advantage rooted in their gradated racial diversity. They can pass under the radar of ignorant Anglo-Americans as Spaniard-ish Europeans "who will assimilate like the Italians." Meanwhile they can lobby for "Aztlan" among their Indianish proletariat with pro-Aztlan leaders who look Europeanish or Arabish but still look "Latin" enough to seem in-group. They get to play both sides and catch their political opponents off guard both ways.

They also have a knack for being very nondescript and inoffensive in person. The maintenance workers that nobody really notices, doesn't say too much usually, keeps the head down, etc. Even the gang-bangers tend to be low key in a way that makes them semi-invisible to Americans who are used to more bombastic whites and blacks. Americans are talking about borders way behind the game, because 40-60 million of these people are here and entrenched and you didn't even notice they arrived.

It is a stealth political movement in that sense, and it works because Anglo-Americans just aren't sharp enough to see what's happening. Make no mistake, when the time comes they will rally around their culture and language. "La Raza Unida." That is their slogan.

Meanwhile city Americans hate country Americans and vice versa. Ivy Americans hate blue collar Americans and vice versa.

Anonymous said...

FYI: Cambridge, MA is in Middlesex County, not Suffolk county with Boston.

Anonymous said...

Minor correction, Steve -- Boston is in Suffolk County, Mass. but Cambridge is in Middlesex. Each is the seat of its county.

jody said...

i don't see why it matters. the "punditocracy" believes whatever it wants to believe, ignoring evidence and data as it sees fit. i don't understand how their personal, day to day, inexperience with american indian border jumpers changes anything. they've had a lifetime of experience with impossible-to-integrate africans, and they still bash us over the head every single day about how outstanding and great that segment of US society should be, if only we made yet more changes and laws to accomodate them.

even if they had a similar lifetime of experience with american indians from central america, the "punditocracy" would STILL be telling us that we're nazi morons for resisting the mexicanization of america, because at any second now, the mexicans are going to turn into nobel prize winning scientists.

i think it was steve who pointed out that anybody could look at new mexico to see how mestizos do after 100 years in the US. it's not encouraging. then again, anybody with experience in a border state could tell you that, except the politicans themselves.

jody said...

somewhat off-topic, but sort of on-topic, too.

obama has named dan rooney, owner of the pittsburgh steelers, as ambassador to ireland. this is pretty obviously a payback for rooney's hardcore support of what can really only be described as an uncompromising black supremacy agenda.

rooney, son of irish immigrants, is a die hard pro-black fanatic, and the guy who encouraged the NFL to adopt the silly rooney rule. he strongly supported obama's run at the presidency.

after being awarded the lombardi trophy at superbowl 43, rooney shamelessly thanked obama, who is a bears fan, but pretended to be a steelers fan for rooney's run at a second lombardi. in fact, obama had already appeared on monday night football in 2002 or so, rooting for the bears.

as sickening as the whole episode is, you won't see this kind of thing repeated between a mexican and an african. a ridiculous, hilariously pro-black agenda is practically de rigueur for some european americans now, but will never be a part of non-white americans' priorities. africans won't have it so good when whites begin losing their ability to direct the handouts straight into black hands.

Anonymous said...

NY may not have had many Mexicans, but it has had many Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, etc. I wonder how often NY Times reporters interact with them when not writing articles on immigration.

jamlin said...

A minor point, which doesn't change your major point--Cambridge is in Middlesex County, not Norfolk County. There are not only few Mexican immigrants, per se, in Cambridge and surrounding towns, but the largest foreign-language contingent consists of Portuguese speakers--traditionally from Portugal, especially the Azores Islands, but beginning in the mid-1980s, increasingly Brazilians.

headache said...

Steve,
I love how you are trying to assume ignorance on the part of the MSM. Or lack of intelligence. I reckon they are just being wilful. Their paymasters being party to certain wicked interest groups also shapes their view. This concept of the MSM as the fourth estate is a transparent lie, even though one keeps reading this crap. The MSM is corrupting the other 3 estates, and wouldn't recognise the truth if it fell over it. Wouldn’t. Does not want to.

BD said...

Cambridge is in Middlesex County.

Anonymous said...

The Scottish urney oan the map!!!

Whit the fu.

A_C said...

In that case we would expect television and movies to have a more accurate portrayal of Mexican immigrants than the Northeast pundits (even accounting for their liberal internationalist biases). How's that coming along?

Chief Seattle said...

Agree completely Steve. Especially older people in the North East - no frickin clue. They think the debate about immigration is over whether we should have a few mexican housecleaners or a few ESL spanish students in the schools. Spending a year in California should be a prerequisite before spouting an opinion in the immigration debate.

desperate said...

OT ALERT:

"Japanese Women Hunt for Husbands as Refuge From Deepening Slump"

Can be found on Bloomberg.com

albertosaurus said...

There you go again - citing facts. You will never be a first class pundit that way

Anonymous said...

In Nashville, I'd never seen ANY Mexican in my life until about 1989-1990.


They pretty much had blacks outnumbered by 2004. Thats just 14 years. Believe it or not, there seems to be a few less of them now than there were then (housing slump). However, there certainly are more Kurds, Asians, Indians, etc.


I started warning people by 1993 what "the Democrats were up to". It was those heady times when Rush Limbaugh was new, and more whites were beginning to lean to the GOP post-Reagan as a matter of personal philosophy, even after the milqetoast Bush the Elder. I remember telling my young friends back in the day, "the Dems are trying to stack the deck, they can't win any other way guys......they are trying to cheat by bringing in all these Mexicans who are going to have babies and become legal". Since my pals were all in college, they didn't give too much of a damn. They thought, "it will make houses cheaper". Well, dammit, I'd done some construction work in my teens, and knew some construction workers who were working-class whites and they certainly didn't fit the stereotypes of the white underclass. They were pretty decent men, some were even religous. I was already thinking of what their fate might be a decade out. Now we know what their fate was a decade out------they had to leave that profession or become contractors.




I honestly think I might have been among the very first in Nashville to start warning of the electoral consequences of this demographic phenomena (non-border-enforcement). I was also the first to be vocal about the media "being overwhelmingly liberal and attempting to help Democratic politicians and unfairly castigate Republican politicians". Some of my old pals started to conceed I was right by Clinton's second term, and state, "we should have listened to you earlier" now. I told em' so.




I do not think the average Republican -still- understands how much and why SWIPPLES despise them and are happy to replace them demographically. I ought to go into that sometime...........

rkillings said...

Actually, Steve, the borough of Manhattan is New York County. Brooklyn is Kings County; Staten Island is Richmond County; and the other two boroughs have the same name as counties.

David said...

Nah, they get it. The exactly same types lived in South Africa and militated for black rule. They knew the natives very well - knew what would happen to the whites under black rule - and fought for it with unabashed vigor. And then when they got their wish, most of them left the country.

Anonymous said...

Immigrants can help fix the housing bubble!

They just don't get it, do they.

They continue to yearn for a return to the good old days.

Anonymous said...

"...by the third generation, they'll be doing as well as Italians!"

we don't want more italians or their equivalents. we barely assimiliated them on the first go round and we would never be able to assimiliate another large wave.

you deleted my earlier comments on the extreme pain italian immigration caused this country in the twentieth century. being from los angeles one wonders if you are clueless on this subject mr sailer? do you think the italian mafia's impact on the usa has been marginal or significant? only someone raised in southern california could hypothesize that the mafia's impact on america is less than significant.

the italian mafia has totally f***ed up large swaths of urban america for more than a century. during one extended period they neutralized the fbi. their malignance continues to this day. they are no joke. they drain untold billions out of the national economy every year and make many small business owners' lives a living hell. much of rhode island, new york city, northern new jersey, philly, cleveland ohio etc. is chronically dysfunctional in the mode of mother italy.

"...by the third generation, they'll be doing as well as Italians!"

italians as an example of "model minority" is a joke. swedes are a good example of the true model minority. those folks are people with near zero negative impact on society. most italians became great americans but the italian bad apples have costed the usa dearly. ITALIAN LOWLIFES HAVE COSTED US DEARLY AND IN PERPETUITY APPARENTLY.

Tim said...

People who condone illegal immigration cannot escape the consequences of illegal immigration forever by segregating themselves in gated communities and expensive neighborhoods. It is a great pleasure to hear conservative talk show hosts in SoCal whining about the state budget deficit and high taxes after serving as shills for big business interests through the 1980's and 1990's.

NYCer said...

I went to school in New York City and worked in finance there afterwards. The Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Dominicans, Jamaicans, inner city blacks, etc., might as well be trees or squirrels. They're just part of the landscape, like the ubiquitous yellow cabs, bodegas, etc. The white professionals and hipster types just don't really interact with those larger groups. And certain sections of NYC don't have that many Hispanics and blacks, such as midtown and downtown business districts, and downtown places that the young hipsters like to hang out in.

On the subways and streets you might be around a lot of them, but everyone's reading or listening to their iPods. Your workplace, restaurants, circle of friends, nightlife, is for the most part pretty segregated. Your interaction with blacks or Hispanics in these places are mostly with those from outside of New York that graduated from the Ivy League.

Of course this whole stable equilibrium depends on huge financial industry profits, from which massive tax revenues support and placate the mass of poor and "urban" residents. So who knows what will happen...we saw what can happen in the 70s. Possibly a return or maybe something worse.

jody said...

a bit harsh on italians, but perhaps true, in a time when it was much harder to track people and keep most of the criminals out.

it's not hard to do that now, but the fedgov refuses to do so. even today, the obama admistration is only "considering" putting troops on the US-mexico border in response to drug violence. the attorney general actually endorsed more gun grabbing, er, gun "control", to protect...mexicans! yes, eric holder wants to make it harder for guns to flow INTO mexico. aw, such concern for those dear, helpless mexicans.

also, let us not overlook the fact that chinese immigration absolutely, positively brings chinese spies into the US, but nobody ever says or does anything about this. heck, another chinese spy was caught just this week. yet it never impacts the reputation of chinese immigrants. 50 years ago, americans would have been exactly correct to be wary of large scale chinese immigration, today, we receive a very public verbal smackdown should we even recognize out loud that some chinese immigrants are literally enemy agents looking to hurt us.

Peter said...

Hey Anonymous from Nashville, if you went around saying things like "I started warning people by 1993 what 'the Democrats were up to'." then no wonder no one took you seriously. The GOP - thanks to their agriculture and big business backers - has been the primary mover for illegal immigration over the past 30 years. Read the WSJ, not what the politicians say. Cheap labor is all that matters. If you try to just pin immigration on the Dems you'll get nowhere. Since 1980 the US has been run by so-called "conservatives" almost without a break (even Clinton had a Republican Congress and SC most of his term), and immigration has never been as out of control. No one in power in the GOP will touch this issue, they know where the money comes from.

I agree with the other Anonymous that the benefits of Italian immigration (and Irish and Russian/Polish Jewish) are always overstated by the media. We're supposed to view those groups as successes - and they have been successful on their terms but also at the expense of the English/German/Dutch who were here first. If you go back and read what nativists were saying in the 1890s, they were scarily correct and much of what they prophesied has come true - a degradation in our civic life, increased political and business corruption, increased nepotism, etc. And of course it's often the Irish/Italian/Jewish elite who push immigrant nostalgia on the rest of us and make it so hard for people to face facts. (and I say this as someone who is half Italian/Irish - half WASP, much as I love my Italian and Irish relatives, the cultural differences are pretty telling.)

NYCer said...

I have to say I agree with the idea that the benefits of earlier waves of immigration are overstated.

The reality is that the waves of Irish, Italians, E. Europeans, were fine insofar as these groups assimilated to the WASP American culture and society. The pundits and others that sing the praises of this earlier wave are actually saying that in spite of the nature of these groups, they were able to conform to earlier American standards. They're not so much being praised for all the extra stuff their foreign cultures added to America.

This of course happened under much different circumstances. The people were from Europe, and the American culture was much more rigid, and there was much more pressure to cultural norms.

This is the exact opposite of what is happening today.

Tino said...

"it's often the Irish/Italian/Jewish elite who push immigrant nostalgia on the rest of us and make it so hard for people to face facts."

This is wrong. Italians are particularly opposed to immigration, both in Italy and here. According to the General Social Survey 53% want reduced immigration in the general population, compared to 67% for Italian-Americans (I don't know why, maybe macho culture, maybe lack of white guilt).

Grumpy Old Man said...

It's New York County, but the Borough of Manhattan. There used to be one Mexican restaurant in the whole place, in Greenwich Village (which isn't a village, but a neighborhood).

In LA, ten years ago, you could see a few Mexicans busing in Chinese and Japanese restaurants. Now there are Mexican waiters and sushi chefs.

But there are more young Chinese, Korean, and Persian lawyers than blacks and Mexicans, it's my impression.

Anonymous said...

and they have been successful on their terms but also at the expense of the English/German/Dutch who were here first.

The idea that Jews and ethnic Catholics politically displaced the WASPs is a myth.

Any old animosities between the three groups are long gone.

Elite Jews and ethnic Catholics get along just fine with elite WASPs in the NYC-New England-Harvard-DC Axis of Evil. All three of them are intermarrying with eachother and going to the same cocktail parties in Davos.

And it's far from certain that a confident old WASP elite would have governed the country in a more conservative direction over the past 40 years. In my experience New England WASP Republicans are barely more conservative than George Herbert Walker Bush or Nelson Rockefeller - to say nothing of increasing numbers of WASP Democrats.

Anonymous said...

I'm a bit surprised that someone will claim that Irish and Russian/Jewish immigration hasn't improved American.

Markku said...

I agree with the other Anonymous that the benefits of Italian immigration (and Irish and Russian/Polish Jewish) are always overstated by the media. We're supposed to view those groups as successes - and they have been successful on their terms but also at the expense of the English/German/Dutch who were here first. If you go back and read what nativists were saying in the 1890s, they were scarily correct and much of what they prophesied has come true - a degradation in our civic life, increased political and business corruption, increased nepotism, etc. And of course it's often the Irish/Italian/Jewish elite who push immigrant nostalgia on the rest of us and make it so hard for people to face facts. (and I say this as someone who is half Italian/Irish - half WASP, much as I love my Italian and Irish relatives, the cultural differences are pretty telling.)

Did the massive arrival of the Irish really cause an increase in corruption in the USA? According to Transparency International, the UK was the world's 12th least corrupt country in 2006 Ireland's position was 17th. Germany was 16th. Now, of course the massive influx of the Irish took place a century or so ago, but the fact that modern Ireland and Germany are in the same club corruption-wise is telling.

Jack said...

Two of the most famous anti-immigrant activists are Italian. Tom Tancredo, former Colorado COngressman, and Lou Barletta, former Hazleton, PA mayor and congressional candidate.

Anonymous said...

Blacks and Puerto Ricans in NYC are afraid to go through Italian-American neighborhoods in Bensonhurst, Howard Beach, and Staten Island. Evidently up in the NY/NJ area, Italians have a rep for being people you don't want to mess with. Very territorial and defensive. I'm not surprised they'd want less immigration.

Lots of Italians also live and do business in overwhelmingy minority (black, Dominican, and Puerto Rican) neighborhoods in NYC. Unlike the other whites, Italians seem to be content to continue to stay in the hood. They seem to have a certain amount of street smarts and street toughness, and also are big time wheelers and dealers.

Anonymous said...

Two of the most famous anti-immigrant activists are Italian. Tom Tancredo, former Colorado COngressman, and Lou Barletta, former Hazleton, PA mayor and congressional candidate.

You need to distinguish working class ethnic Catholics from elite ethnic Catholics such as the Cuomos and Kennedys.

Svigor said...

"Ethnic" European immigration paved the way for the multicult.

Anonymous said...

The idea that Jews and ethnic Catholics politically displaced the WASPs is a myth. Any old animosities between the three groups are long gone.

Tell that to Testing99.

Anonymous said...

This is wrong. Italians are particularly opposed to immigration, both in Italy and here. According to the General Social Survey 53% want reduced immigration in the general population, compared to 67% for Italian-Americans


Interesting. Do you have a link to that study? I've been trying to track down data like this.

Anonymous said...

Did the massive arrival of the Irish really cause an increase in corruption in the USA?


It did at the time. The Italian criminal gangs displaced Irish criminal gangs from an earlier era. Our waves of immigrants have usually been "refuse from the teeming shore" and have brought crime waves in their wake, before moving up the ladder.

Anonymous said...

I'm a bit surprised that someone will claim that Irish and Russian/Jewish immigration hasn't improved American.


All right. Make the case that it has improved it then.

Mark said...

Immigrants can help fix the housing bubble! They just don't get it, do they. They continue to yearn for a return to the good old days.

Yeah, I predicted back in October when the original TARP was under debate that we'd soon start hearing calls to boost immigration in order to get all these homes off the government's hands. The leftists and cheap labor crowd are just so damn predictable.

And it's far from certain that a confident old WASP elite would have governed the country in a more conservative direction over the past 40 years. In my experience New England WASP Republicans are barely more conservative than George Herbert Walker Bush or Nelson Rockefeller

Certainly true in Utah, where the whole state is pretty much run by WASPs (in the broad sense - these aren't relocated Boston Brahmins). We have the most illigel immigrant friendly state in the Union. Elite Jews, Asians, Hispanicas and blacks can be counted on to have some sense of ethnic loyalty, but WASPs, having arrived here so very long ago, and had PC-ness beat into their brains by their Harvard profs, have been thoroughly deracinated. What defines the elite WASP is not the "WASP" but the "elite."

Madoff, Spielberg, Dershowitz, Bronfman, Adelson and the gang can all be counted on to push the ethnocentric angle (and still be publicly respectable). WASP billionaires can't and won't.

In Utah Gov. Hunstman, Sen. Bennett, AG Shurtleff, Rep. Matheson are all pretty WASPish - and all thoroughly multicult. When Gov. Huntsman brought home his second adopted daughter - a 1-year-old from India (his first was from China) - he said that he and his wife spent some extra time in India sucking up the culture that 'nurtured his new child in her first months.' WTF? A 1-year-old? In a culture that abandoned her because she was female?

What we need isn't a confident WASP elite, but a confident WASP citizenry.

I'm a bit surprised that someone will claim that Irish and Russian/Jewish immigration hasn't improved American.

An ongoing debate facing the obvious cultural, scientific and business contributions of jews against their outsized dominace of the media and their generally leftist political machinations. Would America be substantially more conservative (and presumably happier, if a bit poorer) if so many Jews hadn't arrived? Good question.

But at the same time large numbers of Jews have no problem suggesting this country would suck without them. Not offensive. Not offensive at all.

Dave said...

Did the massive arrival of the Irish really cause an increase in corruption in the USA?

Sure, read up about Tammany Hall or James Curley or Richard Daley (senior), amongst many other examples of machine politics. The Irish dominated urban Democratic Party politics for generations, and urban Democratic Party politics were filthily corrupt.

Anonymous said...

The very fact that the media revels in the ethnic identity of Irish or Italian or Jewish Ellis Island immigrants should tell us that those groups didn’t by and large “assimilate” into the, ideally, Waspy American culture of objectivity and fair play.

Notice also that few of these Ellis Island boosters spend much time glorifying American history before their particular group sailed past the Statute of Liberty. As with the Israel lobby, we simply aren’t supposed to notice the ethnocentric nature of the Ellis Island boosters, unless it is to praise them. The “ethnics” will take all the credit that they want, but none of the blame.

stari_momak said...

Minor correction, Steve -- Boston is in Suffolk County, Mass. but Cambridge is in Middlesex. Each is the seat of its county.

At least four variations on this theme, obviously Steve has a lot of Hahvahd men or MIT geek readers. But two things, guys,

1) you're posting anonymously,
so you're engaging in ego onanism
2) The realCambridge is in Cambridgeshire

Peter said...

Some good points. This is why the HBO series "John Adams" was sneakily one of the most subversive shows of the year. The intellectual dynamism and creativity of the old American WASP culture ca. 1770-1820 was on a level that has never been matched since. Watch "John Adams" then watch "the Sopranos" and tell me Italian/Jewish/Irish immigration helped this country. Sometimes the media tells a little too much truth despite itself.

The Cold Equations said...

Here are some pretty pictures from GSS data about white ethnic attitudes towards Hispanic immigration.

The bottom line is that there really isn't that big of a difference between white non-Jewish ethnic groups in this respect, and even between the Jews and the goyim the difference is smaller than you'd think.

Ron Guhname said...

The exchange on St. Patrick's Day between O'Reilly and Glenn Beck was illuminating. O'Reilly in his green tie is obviously proud of his heritage, but when he asked Beck about his, Beck said he didn't identify with his German background and was in fact a little embarassed by it. Huh? The land of Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Handel, Schumann, Strauss, Wagner, and I'm only naming composers?

Ethnic pride is negatively correlated with actual achievement:

http://inductivist.blogspot.com/2006/08/puerto-ricans-are-proudest-people-in.html

d.c. watcher said...

Tammany Hall and Boss Tweed were not Irish. Boss Tweed was born in NY of Scotch-Irish ancestors and we all know that's quite a different thing than what is/was meant by "Irish" in the 19th century. Tammany Hall was thoroughly American, and the Irish Catholics would not have had that much power that early (1860s.) Interestingly though, he did help out immigrants regardless of religion.

Eric Rasmusen said...

Great map! Please do some analysis, Mr. Sailer. Your skills would be well applied comparing 2000 and 1920. I started looking, and was surprised. New York seems to be about as foreign-born now as in 1920, the height of the Ellis Island immigration. Was anywhere as foreign then as Dade County is now, with over 50% foreign born? It would be interesting to look at the concentration of immigrants now. We think of them being concentrated in the big cities back then, but I'm not so sure that was true compared to today. Also, was any state as foreign then as California is now?

Anonymous said...

I have never understood why US citizens of European descent have not campaigned to have more of their 'cousins' immigrate to the USA.

If they really wanted it they would get it.

Richard....London

Mark said...

I have never understood why US citizens of European descent have not campaigned to have more of their 'cousins' immigrate to the USA. If they really wanted it they would get it.

Because we're not allowed to set quotas based on race. We're all supposed to pretend that we can have large-scale immigration without making some sort of decision (i.e., "discriminating") who gets in and who does not.

In that battle, Asians, Africans and Latin Americans are far more highly motivated, because life here is so much better than life in their home countries.

The intellectual dynamism and creativity of the old American WASP culture ca. 1770-1820 was on a level that has never been matched since.

Think about it: in 1790 the USA had about 4 million people. 20% were slaves and women were pretty much excluded from political participation - 1.6 million people. Yet that time period included political leaders like George Washington, Ben Franklin, James Madison, John Witherspoon, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, George Mason, ad infinitum. Watching those buffoons up in Congress, coming from a vastly more diverse population of 300 million, all free to participate politically, can you identify one who even comes close? Our last presidential election was between John McCain and Barack Obama. I know we have a habit of romanticizing the past, but sheesh - can you imagine a single member of Congress risking his physical and financial well-being in the same way the signers of the Declaration did? I mean, some of them actually bothered to join the Army. What a concept!

Anonymous said...

Well there are now hundreds of thousands of Mexicans and Central Americans in NYC and tens of thousands in DC and Boston. 1990 is a long time in immigration terms.

Most of the Mexicans here on the East Coast are dark skinned Indians, not mestizos. Many Mexican Americans in California and Texas look mostly white, especially to someone from the East Coast where so many of the white people are Italian, Jewish, Portuguese etc.

Anonymous said...

"I know we have a habit of romanticizing the past, but sheesh - can you imagine a single member of Congress risking his physical and financial well-being in the same way the signers of the Declaration did? I mean, some of them actually bothered to join the Army. What a concept!"

Young societies are able to have real talent rise to leadership on its own terms. As a society matures, the upper ranks are filled with less talented social climbers who become more corrupt and (worse) mediocre as time goes on.

Eventually the common man gets sick of it allows either marginalized people of talent (like our Founding Fathers) or else a stronger force from outside to overthrow the corrupted elite and the process starts anew.

The most dangerous things a declining elite can do are marginalize people of natural talent and allow outsiders to get close enough to the dinner table to get hungry.

Ronduck said...

The New York Times offers an elaborate quantitative map showing the number of foreign-born people per county over Censuses from 1880 to 2000.

The NYT is making the transition to being a blog quite nicely.

Mr. Anon said...

"Anonymous said...

Even the gang-bangers tend to be low key in a way that makes them semi-invisible to Americans who are used to more bombastic whites and blacks."

Yeah, those bombastic white gang-bangers - you can't hardly go to the multiplex anymore without seeing a bunch of pasty-faced irish kids representin'.

Just what reality do you live in? The last white gang-banger I ever saw was dancing with Natalie Wood in West Side Story.

Anonymous said...

Repeat:

[Hispanics *in general*,] Even the gang-bangers tend to be low key in a way that makes them semi-invisible to Americans who are used to more bombastic whites and blacks.

Learn to read.

Yikes said...

Even in Canada, the latin americans (be they mexican or other) have recently been arriving in alarming numbers. Especially the West Coast.