February 10, 2008

Would McCain Go to the Mat with Obama?

Here's the opening of my new VDARE.com column on the election:

Will McCain Go to the Mat with Obama?

By Steve Sailer

The collapse of long-time frontrunner Rudy Giuliani allowed rival invade-the-world invite-the-world candidate Sen. John McCain to squeeze out plurality wins in winner-take-all primaries, while his hapless foes were winning races where delegates were allotted proportionally. The Mainstream Media (MSM) has now anointed McCain as the presumptive Republican nominee.

Yet Republicans clearly aren't happy about McCain's flukish luck. That was shown by his dismal performance on Saturday, February 9th, the first election day after Super Tuesday. Even with only Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul left in the race, Senator McMentum received just 42 percent of the vote in Louisiana, 26 percent in Washington and 24 percent in Kansas.

The odds still favor McCain scraping across the line, due to his early windfall of delegates. But I would guesstimate that, even without a Huckabee miracle comeback, there's about a 5%-15% chance that McCain won't actually be running for President when Election Day finally grinds around—nine long months from now.

Does anybody have a contingency plan? One may be needed, because McCain is 71 years old. He has twice been struck by cancer—in 1993 and in 2000, when he underwent a 9-hour operation.

And McCain doesn't have the most placid, reticent of personalities in an era that has made crucifying white males for "gaffes" into a national spectator sport (James Watson, Don Imus, Trent Lott, etc. etc. etc.)

At this point, responsible immigration-restrictionist opinion-molders, such as John O'Sullivan, Mickey Kaus, and Randall Parker, tend to favor a Democratic victory as the least awful outcome, especially a win by the uninspiring Hillary Clinton rather than by the dangerously charismatic Barack Obama. They argue that McCain would muffle GOP Congressional resistance to a revived Amnesty/ Immigration Surge bill. They think a Democratic president would galvanize Republican opposition, as did Bill Clinton when he defeated George I, leading to a GOP Congressional victory in 1994.

But I'm in no mood to be responsible. I'm looking for only one thing from Election 2008: entertainment. I want to see mud slung everywhere.

Obama currently leads McCain in head-to-head polls by 7-8 points. So I'm going to offer McCain a little unsolicited advice on what he'd have to do to win.

I don't, however, expect McCain to take my suggestions. I expect him to choose to lose, in the politically correct manner that will preserve his image in the eyes of his Main Stream Media acolytes, rather than to do what it takes to get elected President.

[More]

My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer

58 comments:

Ron Guhname said...

I'm with you, Steve. Macho guys like McCain and Guiliani turn into little girls when the issue is race. Hilary has more cajones than those two: she at least had the guts to imply that Obama is The Black Candidate.

Anonymous said...

No I think McCain will pick the fight. McCain LIVES for picking fights. It got him through captivity and torture, and he can wave THAT around when the Media calls him racist.

The racist charge has lost pretty much all zing. Everyone is a racist now.

Obama IIRC says he won't wear a flag lapel pin because he has "issues" with the flag. He won't say the Pledge of Allegiance for the same reason. An Atwater-style commercial in the making.

I also think Steve you make too much of Obambi and his political skills. ALREADY Time's Klein and LAT Joel Stein are saying he's Chauncy Gardener. Obambi is not exactly a political pro and his team makes unforced errors: too many findable Nation of Islam staffers. McCain is a nasty political fighter who did not survive this long without being well nasty.

Possible Atwater style commercials: Obama's plan to release Black criminals for "disparity." His "Muslim Summit" and his tax increases.

Does anyone know if he was part of the "Free Mumia" movement? THAT would be the mother of all Atwater commercials.

And Steve -- you are right. Signaling to voters policies by notorious incidents is not racism. Merely excuse making by a Dem Party unable to grab the Middle Class.

Ron -- Rudy was not shy on taking on Dinkins. Or exploiting Crown Heights.

Anonymous said...

Steve let me add that I think your advice is the soundest I've seen for McCain. I loathe the toad but Obama would destroy the nation.

Obama though is not that good nor is his organization that good. Winning over Alan Keyes is like me slam dunking over Vern Troyer. McCain has consistently picked fights with the base and survived, so he must know a few nasty knife-fighting tricks.

Anonymous said...

"Obama would destroy the nation."

I am not sure that it is in the power of a single man to destroy the nation, but I guess that depends on how you define "the nation". I suspect conservatives are more scared that Obama might actually prove to be a very competent President, thus destroying their lovingly cultivated stereotypes of blacks.

Anonymous said...

Negative attack ads on Obama will back fire easily.

Moderates and indepedents like his feel good message and they feel really good that America may elect it's first black president.

Attack him and you'll just make it that much more important for people to have to vote for him.

McCain will run with Iraq. That's his main message. He'll through in some lines on taxes but for the most part he's going to try to ride the "surge" to electoral victory.

Good luck to him.

Anonymous said...

"I am not sure that it is in the power of a single man to destroy the nation, but I guess that depends on how you define "the nation."

I have a pretty good idea of how one would define "the nation," and I imagine most other conservatives do, too. It seems to be only liberals who are confused on this issue.

"I suspect conservatives are more scared that Obama might actually prove to be a very competent President, thus destroying their lovingly cultivated stereotypes of blacks."

Sounds to me like you're indulging in some lovingly cultivated stereotypes of your own. Already, you typify the race card that will be used by Obama supporters against any and all criticism of him, should he be the nominee.

Here's a novel thought for you: We conservatives oppose Obama because he is an extreme Leftist and suspect that he does not have our national interest at heart. We don't like Leftists or Leftist ideology, regardless of the race or gender or the Leftist proponent. That's why we don't like Ted Kennedy, Dick Durban, Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Howard Dean...or Obama.

neil craig said...

If he intends going to go for the jugular it makes sense for him to be silent now. If McCain thinks Obama is the more beatable candidate then he certainly wants him to get the Democratic nomination first.

Sleep said...

I hate it when people trot out this "white conservatives want blacks to be stupid because it makes whites feel better about themselves" stereotype. Really, I guarantee you, *all* of the readers of this blog want nothing more than for the claim that blacks are as intelligent as whites to be proved true after all, so that our race problem can finally have a solution and America can focus more social effort on solving its many, many other problems that get comparatively little attention.

I will say, though, that I'm skeptical of those who extrapolate the very solid evidence for low black-American IQ to bolster the comparatively flimsy evidence for low black IQs in Africa. And I think Africans like Obama are good evidence that Africans in general are a bit smarter than many race realists seem to believe.

Anonymous said...

The real danger that conservatives see in Obama is that he seems to have taken a leaf from the book of Nelson Mandela, a man who was prepared to dump his own ideological leftism in the interest of racial reconciliation. This strategy has earned him the respect and love of the overwhelming majority of South Africa's whites, thereby dashing the prospects of the Neanderthal fringe to ever gain political power again.

Martin said...

"Sleep said...

I will say, though, that I'm skeptical of those who extrapolate the very solid evidence for low black-American IQ to bolster the comparatively flimsy evidence for low black IQs in Africa. And I think Africans like Obama are good evidence that Africans in general are a bit smarter than many race realists seem to believe."

Huh? Based on evolutionary grounds or on environmental grounds, the IQ's of black Americans could only but be greater than that of black Africans. And what evidence is there of great aptitude in Africa? The great masses of indolent, starving people? The armies of vicious, machete-wielding pre-teens? Voodoo war-lords who pronounce magical bullet-shielding incantations over their men, and encourage them to charge naked at their enemies? The men who seek to cure themselves of HIV by raping babies?

Obama's father was a scholarship student from Kenya in the 1960's. No doubt reasonably intelligent, but probably an outlier. They didn't chose average people to receive scholarships to go study in America. It should also be noted, that intelligent as he may have been, he was also a lying, philandering, alcoholic sociopath.

Fred said...

If Obama were a Republican I'd have no doubt that McCain would got to the mat with him. The problem is that he's used to being civil and accommodating with Democrats.

Concerned Netizen said...

"McCain LIVES for picking fights."

I agree. Also, the 527s can bring up the black nationalist church Barack Hussein Obama belongs to.

Do you really think all those Nascar Dads and Moms are going to vote for Barack Hussein Obama? I doubt it. The US still isn't composed of idiots who write to Andrew Sullivan.

Lucius Vorenus said...

Anonymous: Obama though is not that good nor is his organization that good. Winning over Alan Keyes is like me slam dunking over Vern Troyer.

Okay, I had to google that one.

Lucius Vorenus said...

Sleep: Really, I guarantee you, *all* of the readers of this blog want nothing more than for the claim that blacks are as intelligent as whites to be proved true after all, so that our race problem can finally have a solution and America can focus more social effort on solving its many, many other problems that get comparatively little attention.

But we know that it won't be proved true - that it can't be proved true.

If there were any hope whatsoever that it could be proved true, then we'd have seen it in the numbers by now.

And hoping for the impossible is the kind of thing that children [i.e. Democrats] engage in - not adults [i.e. Republicans].

We're the ones who have to face the horror of our impending demographic doom and see whether we can figure out a way to chart a course so that [what's left of] our society doesn't go up in flames.

Sleep: I will say, though, that I'm skeptical of those who extrapolate the very solid evidence for low black-American IQ to bolster the comparatively flimsy evidence for low black IQs in Africa. And I think Africans like Obama are good evidence that Africans in general are a bit smarter than many race realists seem to believe.

Three points.

1) It is possible that Obama Sr was way off to the right end of the African IQ bell curve. Yes, outliers do exist - although it's curious to me that everything I read says that Obama Sr "attended" graduate school at Harvard, but nothing seems to indicate that Obama Sr ever got a degree from Harvard. Furthermore, as I've indicated to Steve Sailer, it's curious as well that - while the Obama Jr campaign has put out an enormous wealth of information about Ann Dunham - there's been a complete censoring of information about Obama Sr, to include the continuing absence of even a Wikipedia page about him.

2) Obama Jr is NOT black - he's mulatto. He gets at least 50% of his smarts from his Mom's side of the family [who not only gave him his genes, but also raised him when both his bio-Dad and his step-Dad abandoned him].

3) As things stand right now, we don't know anything about Obama Jr's intelligence - the guy receives nothing but softball questions from the press, and we have no earthly idea how he'd react to a true intellectual grilling*.

Actually, that's McCain's biggest problem here - the very idea of grilling a "minority" has devolved into a species of "racism" [picking on the black guy], so no one in the mainstream press [to include the questioners in the presidential debates this fall] will have the gonads to attempt it.

Maybe Obama really does have the smarts, but we'll never know, because no one in this campaign season will have the fortitude to stand up and challenge him.

*PS: We also have no earthly idea how the guy would react to a psychological grilling - as far as I can tell, he's never been responsible for anything in his life [he's never held any management positions whatsoever, and he has a remarkable tendency to disappear from the legislature when any controversial issues arise], and I'm with Steve Sailer in wondering whether the guy might be harboring some Thomas Eagleton-esque problems with manic-depression.

If things got really tough [say, the Chinese & North Koreans simultaneously attacked Taiwan & South Korea], then I could see the guy curling up in the fetal position and wetting his pants.

But, again, we'll never know [prior to November 4, 2008], because political correctness demands that he NOT be tested.

Rosamund said...

Sleep,
Obama is half white.

I completely agree with Steve, I just don't see McCain fighting hard either, because of who his enemy will be: a liberal. Can anybody think of a liberal that McCain has shown extreme animosity for, the likes of which he has shown for some conservatives? Seriously, anybody more familiar with McCain's history who may know the answer? Stranger things have happened in politics and McCain could end up being passionate about defeating a liberal foe... I'll be pleasantly surprised if that happens.

Geronimo McTavish said...

Sleep: "I think Africans like Obama are good evidence that Africans in general are a bit smarter than many race realists seem to believe."

Right, so African Americans (who often have white ancestry) usually have lower IQ than whites but we cant extrapolate from this to 'real' Africans.

You know, guys like Obama.

Guys who have white mothers...

Rosamund said...

anonymous talked about McCain living for fights and brings up Rudy...

That is very true about Rudy. I disagree about McCain and it will be up the Party to go after the Dem. Despite all his liberal and personal baggage, I think conservatives loved Rudy because as has been said many times about others, mostly Fred Thompson, is also true of Rudy: he loved "to punch hippies". Even better in NYC, he fought race charlatans and did so with relish. Remember, at the same time the New York Times endorsed McCain, they devoted a large segment to slamming Giuliani... that says it all.

jan said...

McCain will not go the the mat with Obama because he will be crucified by the MSM, his elite supporters and purported independent supporters. All this would do is harm McCain.

Obama has the MSM PC cone of silence protecting him from any criticism.

Anonymous said...

"guesstimate"

no.

Bertrand Russell said...

And the dems can rework some of those old commercials from 1964 to convince people that McCain is a dangerous psycho who will start WWIII.

David said...

The strategy of Obamaniacs is to play the race card: if you're against me, you're an old racist scared of change! And of course, "racism" is a serious charge - one that many Obamaniacs would like to see made a statutory crime. If you are against Obama, you are a hate criminal, guilty of hate speech! Cf. Billary's "fairy tale" comment. If they can do that to Slick Willie, imagine what they can do to you or me - when in power.

You don't even have to imagine or fantasize such a regime. Google "Canadian Human Rights Commission." Up there, Steve and most commenters here would be in prison. For example, citing racial disparities in crime statistics a la "The Color of Crime" report is itself a crime there, because it "brings a category of people into disrepute" (i.e. "disses" them).

That's the sort of "change" - one of them - that has the Left, especially Obama's natural supporters, grinning malevolently in anticipatory glee.

Destroy the nation? You bet. Heard of the First Amendment?

Does Obama's candidacy get any substantive criticism today, other than from Steve? Is anyone else using his or her First Amendment rights in this context? I don't know. I guess I've been too niggardly-please forgive me, ungenerous with my time to do the necessary spadework-please forgive me, extensive research into the controlled media's fairy tales-please forgive me, feel-good narratives. On that I'll defer to other observers because I want to be fair-uh, just. And I wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of African-Americans for any reason; you know how touchy they are.

Anonymous said...

The racist charge has lost pretty much all zing. Everyone is a racist now.

That's a fatuous falsehood worthy of the erstwhile Evil Neocon. Tell it to James Watson. Or to the countless people railroaded into jail on added charges of "hate." Or to the countless who have lost jobs because of their "racist views" or "racist statements."

Ron Guhname said...

"I suspect conservatives are more scared that Obama might actually prove to be a very competent President, thus destroying their lovingly cultivated stereotypes of blacks."

I AM scared that Obama would competently implement every Leftist program imaginable. And the toothless media will only enable him.

And sure, WE'RE the wishful thinkers.

David said...

McCain LIVES for picking fights. It got him through captivity and torture

He also says that under him (forget Congress) the war will last 100+ years - and no Americans will be injured. We can pay for it because we are The Mightiest Nation on Earth (40+ trillion in debt).

I am coming to the horrific conclusion that a Hillary presidency is America's best option. What a nightmare. Thanks, controlled media, for kicking Paul to the curb (most donations from the military of all candidates). Who needs the reincarnation of the Founding Fathers, when we have so many sane and realistic professional war-mongering socialists to pretend to choose among?

It may just be possible that five years of captivity and torture could have some impact on one's sanity, i.e. could be a liability rather than an asset. But I suppose that indelicate observation makes me an anti-American jihadist pantywaist lemon-sucker and sharia-lover. Or, in the cow states, just a "gol-durn librul." The country is cooked.

Anonymous said...

"Go to the mat?"

I can't believe you said that, you racist, you.

Anonymous said...

McCain could win easily if he came out and said he changed his mind on one mere issue.


All McCain would have to do is say "Im going to build a wall, and only allow in the one million legal immigrants per year that we presently allow, and will have employers employing illegals prosecuted over the next year or two." He'd win a landslide over Obama.


Dont count Hillary out. We are moving into states that she is likely to win. Voting for Obama is easier in Maine than in other places where large prison releases of blacks would do real harm. Hillary will probably bring out some negative attack ads that accurately portray Obama's -real- past also. Karl Rove and company sure-as-hell-will.

Anonymous said...

Obama is dialed in to the fact that the scope and scale of problems in real black america is much greater than white professional political observers, trying to unravel the meaning of "hope" and "change", are likely to imagine (maybe an order of magnitude greater). As a result, I think he probably continues to hold much of his black/left perspective of 1995. Obama has done enough talking about a "working majority", "real change", "universal healthcare", etc. to give one the idea that he's prepared for a second round of great society programs. His strong sense of a need for govt. action on behalf of the lower class presumably will swamp the effect of rational objections or historical wisdom. I assume these are his hidden thoughts as he surveys the multitudes. After all, he seems to style himself after Malcolm X. I think he also feels frustrated that the left has never really gotten over the hump to impose its vision and will relish the opportunity to be the "agent of change" if he gets the chance. Steve is right that McCain should move to characterize him as an advocate of unsuccessful left wing policies, as should the whole republican apparatus.

Dog of Justice said...

I will say, though, that I'm skeptical of those who extrapolate the very solid evidence for low black-American IQ to bolster the comparatively flimsy evidence for low black IQs in Africa. And I think Africans like Obama are good evidence that Africans in general are a bit smarter than many race realists seem to believe.

New immigrants to the US from Africa tend to be smart, yes... but the evidence strongly suggests that's because they're the cream of the crop. (This brain drain phenomenon is, of course, not restricted to Africa.) Steve has discussed this before.

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't it be better if someone other than McCain himself brought out the stuff about Obama's past -- a la Swiftboat Vets for Truth?

That way, the "outers" could really hit Obama hard, pulling no punches.
This would allow McCain to "distance" himself from those terrible racists --
while repeating their claims as loudly and frequently as possible in order to "discredit" them.

Anonymous said...

Repubs. should also have some staffers with nuanced cultural views to avoid seeming uncool and offending Obama's non-lefty, feel good centrist supporters. For example, making a big thing out of the will.i.am humps and lumps bit would be seen as very uncool stodgy, traditionalist alarmism. Repubs. need a younger group to craft the campaign; they don't want to have the equivalent of crusty 1980s detroit auto execs. making style judgement calls.

Mark said...

The conservative movement is more important than the republican party's hold on power. Eight years ago Steve backed Bush, who is responsible for the anemic state of conservatism today. The advice to McCain will guarantee the death of conservatism as a movement. The best thing for conservatism now is a few years in the political wilderness.

Audacious Epigone said...

Even if McCain won't pick the fight, will there not be 527s out there willing to do the mud-slinging for him? The posibilities for "Swift boating" are endless.

Anonymous said...

Well, this conservative would be delighted to have a Black President, as long as he's Tom Sowell, but I guess that makes my racism even more insidious.

jody said...

i guess we are already pretending that he is not 50% white, and of high IQ white heritage at that.

Anonymous said...

Atwater's wedge works because Democrats have different values/policies than the average voter. Values and policies that they try their best to conceal.

Right, attacks on Obama will backfire. Because negative campaigns have never succeeded.

The Berkeley trap for Obama is going to close on him. He votes against the Marines and his base is happy but it's an Atwater attack ad. He ducks the issue, same. He votes FOR the Marines and he's safe ... but Obama lacks the skill and experience to see that danger. He's run in safe and overwhelmingly Democratic districts and doesn't have experience running against Republicans.

Anonymous said...

"Does Obama's candidacy get any substantive criticism today, other than from Steve? "

Yes. Joel Klein from Newsweek, Joel Stein from LAT.

Watson's and Imus's scalps may have been collected, but Imus will shortly be back on the air, and the OJ, Jena 6, and other scandals have disappated the charge of racism. It's on it's last legs like feminism.

McCain's 100 years comment relates to Germany (troops there for 60 years) and Korea (troops there for 50 years). We certainly *WILL* have wars of some kind, most nations outside US security umbrella do. China had a war with Vietnam for example and Russia with Chechnya, Kosovo, etc.. We will probably never again undertake an invasion or occupation though, and the Wilsonian "make the ME safe for democracy" Bush policy is dead.

Today the Bush Admin announced they will try KSM and other 9/11 conspirators and ask for the death penalty. That is also another trap. Obama being a Dem without experience running against Reps will likely condemn it which is a dumb move.

Bill Clinton did his "Sistah Soljah" move precisely to signal a "reverse Atwater" i.e. he would not be beholden to Jessie Jackson shakedowns. And he still needed Ross Perot twice to split the Republican vote against bad Republican candidates. Obama has so much liberal baggage outside Media Hype (which generates it's own backlash) that he absolutely needs to push for something like shooting the 9/11 guys and be done with it. To signal he's not beholden to the ACLU. But he won't -- too many easy wins in solid Dem places. Dukakis had the same problem, Kerry also.

Anonymous said...

A poster upthread wanted to know who besides Steve has criticized Obama:

Paul Krugman Has done so. Calling Obama "dangerously close to a cult of personality."

Not as substantive as Steve but there you have it. Clinton has many allies in the Press and it's in her best interest to have them derail Obama if he wins the nomination. McCain by contrast is likely to serve only one term because of age.

Dutch Boy said...

What human being could resist the sheer fun of going after OJbama with hammer and tongs. Bring it on!

Anonymous said...

Folks, some people seem to think that Obama, as a half-Kenyan man, must be in collusion with the Latinos. Did anyone notice the primary votes last Tuesday?

White male Dems voted 50/50 Obama Hillary. So much for the "oppressive racist White Men" nonsense.

Black Dems voted overwhelmingly Obama, like 80/20. On the real, where are the real racists?

Latino Dems voted Hillary: 75/25.

Asian Dems voted Hillary, too.

Obama was probably buying into the Nation of Islam nonsense that it's whites against the world. Some white people seem to think that is the case too. Ask your average Latino or Asian adult (not teenagers) what they think about all that. Or don't ask: look at the primary results.

People, wake up.

Truth said...

"although it's curious to me that everything I read says that Obama Sr "attended" graduate school at Harvard, but nothing seems to indicate that Obama Sr ever got a degree from Harvard."

Well, call me crazy, but I think his law career would lend some indication of graduation from law school.

I guess we're back on the Debi-Thomas-Passed-The-Medical-Bar-Through-Affirmative-Action thing again.

"Here's a novel thought for you: We conservatives oppose Obama because he is an extreme Leftist and suspect that he does not have our national interest at heart. We don't like Leftists or Leftist ideology,..."

Well, here's a novel thought for you;

Ronald Reagan raised taxes more times than any president in history, and George W. Bush has presided over the largest budget increase in history.

"he was also a lying, philandering, alcoholic sociopath."

Well, if his son's a 'chip off the old block' maybe he should be president, we already have one of those in office.

"Obama Jr is NOT black - he's mulatto"

Finally, I'm starting to get how this thing works:

Dr. Charles R. Drew, Halle Berry and Barack Obama are Mulatto: Rae Carruth, Rock Newman and Hewey Newton are black.

You see, If I really concentrate I can rack my 85 IQ to think 'up' on your level.

"As things stand right now, we don't know anything about Obama Jr's intelligence - "

Siiiigghhhhh!; here we go again:

He graduated from the worlds most prestigious university, edited the world most prestigious University newspaper and passed the Illinois bar, that should tell us something, shouldn't it?

"New immigrants to the US from Africa tend to be smart, yes... but the evidence strongly suggests that's because they're the cream of the crop."

Well, it must have taken great evidence of intelligence to go to the local Western Union and filled out an immigration lottery application, or been related to another low IQ African who was already here, because that's how most of them got
here.

"What human being could resist the sheer fun of going after OJbama with hammer and tongs. Bring it on!"

OJbama huh, that's brilliant satire, did you think of that one yourself of did Lucius Vorenus help you?
You know sir, I don't know what you do for a living but The New Yorker Magazine and the Paris Review bend over backwards to hire satirists of your obvious genius.

"Black Dems voted overwhelmingly Obama, like 80/20. On the real, where are the real racists? "

What percentage of whites voted for Al or Jesse? I don't have the stats handy, but I would bet a week's salary that it was less than 20.

Quick history lesson:

The one-drop rule was started, continued and propagated by WHITES. Blacks have only followed it because, well, they had no other choice.

For those of (and there have been many) who have brought up his 50% white heritage; I guess that means you would have been thrilled to have him take your daughter to the prom!

Oh, he's a BANTU now? What a shock.

SFG said...

Can't you just say, look, he's a nice guy, but he's a liberal, and we don't like their ideas?

truthseeker said...

Both Africans and African-Americans have much lower IQs than whites on average, but an important effect that often gets forgotten is that the genetic variability of Africans is much higher. Indeed, it's higher than that of all other races taken collectively. Genetically, "Africans" effectively describe over a dozen races. Between these different African races there is as much variability as between, for example, Finns and Mongolians.

So it is no contradiction to observe that, while the average black has a low IQ, the occasional black exhibits high IQ, and in particular very high verbal IQ. Jews are famous for their high verbal IQs, but Martin Luther King Jr. and Barack Obama can beat any Jew on the planet in public speaking.

Lucius Vorenus said...

Truth: Well, call me crazy, but I think his law career would lend some indication of graduation from law school.

I guess we're back on the Debi-Thomas-Passed-The-Medical-Bar-Through-Affirmative-Action thing again.


I was talking about Obama SR, not Obama JR.

Look at what the Obama campaign has for Ann Dunham:

en.wikipedia.org
chicagotribune.com
etc

They even created a fancy multi-media presentation for Ann Dunham's high school teacher, Val Foubert:

valfoubert.com

But there is NOTHING out there about Obama Sr.

Information-wise, the guy is a black hole [no pun intended].

PS: One of the reasons that they can't create a Wikipedia page about Obama Sr is because he was [apparently] involved in a polygamous marriage with Ann Dunham when Obama Jr was born, and there's a pretty strong consitutional argument to be made which holds that that makes Obama Jr ineligible to become president of the USA.

David said...

truth,

Good job, finally some well-written and clever opposition on here. It's been a long wait.

[Obama] graduated from the worlds most prestigious university, edited the world most prestigious University newspaper and passed the Illinois bar, that should tell us something [about his superior intelligence], shouldn't it?

Proof of little. You forget that Bush Jr. also graduated from there, graduated with an MBA, and went on to own a major sports team, govern a large state, and become US President twice. Now tell me Obama's resume necessarily says anything about his brain.

Bush Sr. helped Shrub; I believe Obama has sponsors who help him like Levison helped King. Unlike an honest black businessman, Obama is and has been a token all his life - and a government-employee all his adult life.

Is Obama really The Black Candidate? Or is this pretty boy merely "The Black Candidate" (note the quotes)?

Anonymous said...

truth

Yes, Obama has proven he's got the intellect. However, you're making a lot of senseless points besides that:

It's clear blacks are the most ethically tribal voting block 80/20. Mormons and Jews also vote in similarly lopsided numbers, but not as often for specific handouts in the ethnic spoils systems.

The analogy you gave is faulty. It sould be what percentage of blacks (0%) voted for David Duke (anti-black) compared to the percentage of whites (small but non-zero) voted for Sharpton/Jessie (anti-white).

The one-drop rule is continued and propaged by BLACKS and WHITES. Whites seem to primarily propagate it as a free handout to anyone. Blacks propagate and expand it by judging people on how light-skinned someone within the black community (either considered more attractive or distrusted potential oreo).

Steve Sailer said...

Lucius,

Obama was born to a native-born American citizen in an American state. Nobody has ever had a better claim to be eligible under the Constitution. That his parent's marriage was either bigamous or didn't happen is utterly irrelevant.

Heck, McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone where his father was serving in the Navy. He's got a lousier case than Obama, and nobody's going to take it seriously that McCain's ineligble.

DAJ said...

"I guess we're back on the Debi-Thomas-Passed-The-Medical-Bar-Through-Affirmative-Action thing again"

You are so right, truth! For some reason, Mr. Lucius Vorenus endeavors diligently to disqualify or cast doubt on the intelligence of high-IQ blacks. It is very odd. Two weeks ago, he was ascribing high intelligence to a white German woman who had stripped for Playboy, while assigning low intelligence to a black woman who had earned an engineering degree, graduated from medical school, and passed a medical licensing examination.

Mr. Vorenus gives me the impression that he would even seek to discount the intelligence of my black former college roommate. My former roommate scored a 1350 on the SAT, achieved the 99th percentile on the Pharmacy College Admissions Test (PCAT), completed his B.S. with honors in Microbiology, and finished pharmacy school. By the way, he is dark-skinned, "un-mixed," and hails from a single-parent, blue-collar family.

I find it curious that men like Mr. Vorenus readily accept the well tested reality of low mean black intelligence. Yet, they seemingly struggle to accept that the racial bell curves overlap and each curve has extreme tails.

DAJ said...

Lucius Vorenus: “…it's curious to me that everything I read says that Obama Sr 'attended' graduate school at Harvard, but nothing seems to indicate that Obama Sr ever got a degree from Harvard.”

In as much as Wikipedia can be trusted, here is an excerpt from the site’s biography of Ann Dunham:

“Ann Dunham and Barack Obama Sr. divorced in 1965, when he went to Harvard to continue his education. The senior Obama, after finishing his PhD in economics at Harvard….”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham

DAJ said...

Correction: "In as much as" should be "Inasmuch as."

Truth said...

"Now tell me Obama's resume necessarily says anything about his brain."

If your resume doesn't, what does? Obama was not born into American royalty as was Bush.

"But there is NOTHING out there about Obama Sr.

Information-wise, the guy is a black hole [no pun intended]."

He's also a fairly nondescript AFRICAN who lived in the United States for all of three years, and a sperm donor who had no real impact on his upbringing. If you look up Wikipedia.zulu you might find more on him.

" and there's a pretty strong consitutional argument to be made which holds that that makes Obama Jr ineligible to become president of the USA."

My friend, please, take a step back from the computer and go do something else for a while. I'm starting to worry about you.

Obama has an American parent and he was BORN HERE. Was I asleep when they dissolved birthright citizenship?

"The analogy you gave is faulty. It should be what percentage of blacks (0%) voted for David Duke (anti-black) compared to the percentage of whites (small but non-zero) voted for Sharpton/Jessie (anti-white)."

Ahh, ye of little research. Actually if you look at the 1990 Senate primary race, David Duke won an Astonishing 9% OF THE BLACK VOTE, AND 5% IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

Unlike Jesse and Al who may dislike whites covertly, remember Duke was A KLANSMAN LESS THAN 10 YEARS BEFORE THE ELECTION.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/david-duke-speaks-ron-paul-450956.html

That kills all the nonsense about blacks being lazy, apparently one out of every 10 Black Louisiana Republicans would enjoy returning to 16 hour days of unpaid field labor.

shakinghead said...

anonymous said...
"Obama's plan to release Black criminals for "disparity.""

Sounds like Mandela's stunt in 1994 when he released thousands of black criminals into the streets. The result is that South Africa has the highest violent crime and rape statistics in the world.

Martin said...

"For example, making a big thing out of the will.i.am humps and lumps bit would be seen as very uncool stodgy, traditionalist alarmism. Repubs. need a younger group to craft the campaign;"

Yeah we need young, hip conservatives setting the tone of debate - like Rich Lowry, and Jonah Goldberg, and all the fan-boys at Ace-of-Spades - following Bush and Cheney on any damn fool crusade. Serious, thoughtful conservatives - who know all the proper comic book super-hero and lesbian-prison-movie pop-culture references.

Yeah, that worked out SO well.

Svigor said...

"Here's a novel thought for you: We conservatives oppose Obama because he is an extreme Leftist and suspect that he does not have our national interest at heart. We don't like Leftists or Leftist ideology,..."

Well, here's a novel thought for you;

Ronald Reagan raised taxes more times than any president in history, and George W. Bush has presided over the largest budget increase in history.


And your point would be? I'm taking away "we shouldn't vote for Obama, and we shouldn't have voted for Reagan, either," but maybe you can help me out with that.

"he was also a lying, philandering, alcoholic sociopath."

Well, if his son's a 'chip off the old block' maybe he should be president, we already have one of those in office.


And your point would be? I'm taking away "it's okay for Obama to suck, because Bush II sucks." Or, loosely translated, "white America owes black America an Obama presidency, because I say so."

"Obama Jr is NOT black - he's mulatto"

Finally, I'm starting to get how this thing works:

Dr. Charles R. Drew, Halle Berry and Barack Obama are Mulatto: Rae Carruth, Rock Newman and Hewey Newton are black.


No, you're not starting to get it, you're starting to wrestle with straw men.

"New immigrants to the US from Africa tend to be smart, yes... but the evidence strongly suggests that's because they're the cream of the crop."

Well, it must have taken great evidence of intelligence to go to the local Western Union and filled out an immigration lottery application,


The plane tickets were free?

or been related to another low IQ African who was already here, because that's how most of them got
here.


Pay attention: according to the commentor you're responding to, the African immigrants already here are of relatively high IQ.

"Black Dems voted overwhelmingly Obama, like 80/20. On the real, where are the real racists? "

What percentage of whites voted for Al or Jesse? I don't have the stats handy, but I would bet a week's salary that it was less than 20.

Please find a white candidate who got 80 percent of the white vote.

Where's the white analogue of Al or Jesse for whites to vote for? What percentage of the white vote went to David Duke?

A comparison to a couple of professional blacks (by that I don't mean black professionals) with "Reverend" as their only job qualification don't exactly shed much light.

Quick history lesson:

The one-drop rule was started, continued and propagated by WHITES. Blacks have only followed it because, well, they had no other choice.


Quick reality lesson: your apparent grasp on reality is tenuous. BLACKS currently enforce the one-drop rule, and have done so for at least a half-century.

Please explain this "no choice" thing. Black America can't and couldn't reject mostly-white "blacks" as blacks why, exactly?

For those of (and there have been many) who have brought up his 50% white heritage; I guess that means you would have been thrilled to have him take your daughter to the prom!

I didn't bring it up, but I'll respond anyway. No, I wouldn't want him marrying my daughter, and that stands if race is the only consideration. This impacts the assessment of his racial heritage how, exactly?

none of the above said...

dog of justice:

Yep. This ought to be familiar to anyone working in a tech field or who went to college somewhere with a lot of foreign students. Why are all the Indians and Arabs so much smarter than Americans? Because the ones you're meeting are the ones who got sent overseas to do graduate work in mathematics or physics or engineering. (This doesn't explain why so many of the Indian girls in the CS/math classes were smokin' hot. Though the 95/5 sex ratios may have made them look better than they'd have looked in a psych class....)

david:

McCain has personally sponsored legislation that violates the first amendment. This makes it a bit hard for me to see Obama as inherently more of a threat to free speech. Has Obama supported or sponsored or voted for hate speech laws in his time in the Illinois legislature or Senate?

As far as I can tell, Obama is untested, inexperienced, and it's hard to see what he'll do. McCain is experienced, tested, and has a record for effectively advocating really bad policies. Hillary advocates bad policies, but also doesn't seem to do a good job of it (frex, her handling of health care reform was a disaster, and people who worked with her on it still appear to have low opinions of her.) What a choice!

Lucius Vorenus said...

DAJ: In as much as Wikipedia can be trusted, here is an excerpt from the site’s biography of Ann Dunham:

"Ann Dunham and Barack Obama Sr. divorced in 1965, when he went to Harvard to continue his education. The senior Obama, after finishing his PhD in economics at Harvard..."


Go to the library at Harvard:

http://lms01.harvard.edu/F/

Search on "Author (last name first)" for "Obama":

http://lms01.harvard.edu/F/?func=scan&scan_code=AUN&scan_start=Obama

There is no evidence there that Obama Sr has either a Master's Thesis or a PhD Dissertation on file at Harvard.

For that matter, in line with some of the other questions Steve Sailer has been raising today, there is no evidence that Obama Jr has ever published anything in his name, either [other than, of course, Dreams & Audacity].

Truth said...

"And your point would be? I'm taking away "we shouldn't vote for Obama, and we shouldn't have voted for Reagan, either," but maybe you can help me out with that."

Svigor, my friend, I've been 'helping you out' for at least two years on Amren.com. It's a bit of a thankless job but since you asked...

White nationalist types tend to see themselves as 'conservatives' that means lower taxes, smaller social programs, decreased immigration, etc. In addition, they are using these things as excuses for why Obama is bad (we all know the true reason but that's beside the point here.) I simply pointed out that your 'conservative' heroes are no more conservative than Obama, or in reality Jesse Jackson and may be less so.

"And your point would be? I'm taking away "it's okay for Obama to suck, because Bush II sucks..."

No, it's OK for Obama to suck because every president you have voted for in your life 'sucks' if viewed under the same light.

"No, you're not starting to get it, you're starting to wrestle with straw men."

No, you miss a very simple point. Accomplished light-skinned black Americans such as Obama and Berry are touted for their 'admixture' light skinned criminals such as Huey Newton are not. We can't have it both ways can we?

"The plane tickets were free?"

What was that about straw men?

"Pay attention: according to the commentator you're responding to, the African immigrants already here are of relatively high IQ."

Yes and relatively high IQ for people in a community averaging 65 would be what; 80? They are of 'relatively high IQ' because they have had the resources. This is not complicated. Bodybuilders have large biceps because the have access to weights.

"Please find a white candidate who got 80 percent of the white vote."
That's because there are more than one white candidate running. We have never had two major black candidates running in the same primary. If we did, neither one would win 80% of the vote.

"Quick reality lesson: your apparent grasp on reality is tenuous. BLACKS currently enforce the one-drop rule, and have done so for at least a half-century."

Yes because the majority makes it so. A half-black person can scream "I'm white!" at the top of his lungs for a week and a half and no white person will agree, therefore they are considered black. That is, of course, until they accomplish something, then whites start talking about 'admixture' again.

"Please explain this "no choice" thing. Black America can't and couldn't reject mostly-white "blacks" as blacks why, exactly?"

Because legally and socially they have been considered 'black' on the American land mass for 400 years. It's as simple as that. A person who is 10% black could legally be enslaved and could legally be jailed (until 40 years ago) for marrying a white person, therefore they are black. As we say in the ghetto you 'get in where you fit in.'

" didn't bring it up, but I'll respond anyway. No, I wouldn't want him marrying my daughter, and that stands if race is the only consideration. This impacts the assessment of his racial heritage how, exactly?"

If by nature of his race you would not want a man 'soiling' your daughter or family name, you obviously consider him a lesser man. If this is so, what difference does it make if he looks like Barack Obama or Dikembe Mutumbo? And if this is so, his 10%, 20%, 40%, 70% or 80% white heritage is completely insignificant.

Glad that I could be of service.

Svigor said...

Svigor, my friend, I've been 'helping you out' for at least two years on Amren.com. It's a bit of a thankless job but since you asked...

White nationalist types tend to see themselves as 'conservatives' that means lower taxes, smaller social programs, decreased immigration, etc. In addition, they are using these things as excuses for why Obama is bad (we all know the true reason but that's beside the point here.) I simply pointed out that your 'conservative' heroes are no more conservative than Obama, or in reality Jesse Jackson and may be less so.


Lol, that's quite the chain you've got going there. You assert that WNs tend to be conservatives, then you assert that WNs use their conservatism as a fig leaf for their racism, then you assert that Reagan is no more conservative than Obama, and finally that Reagan is my hero so that means I have no good reason to prefer anyone over Obama.

Whew! That's a long way to haul all that water for nothing. I'm not a conservative, and I don't need a fig leaf to cover my racism. I don't want Obama as president on the basis of, inter alia, his race (sorta like how 80% of the black vote wants him for president because of his race, sorta like you're here in every Obama thread based on his race, etc.).

None of this impacts the silliness of your argument, which seems unaltered: "Obama sucks as much as anyone else, ergo Svigor should vote for him."

No, it's OK for Obama to suck because every president you have voted for in your life 'sucks' if viewed under the same light.

Every president to run for office in my lifetime is black and therefore born with a built-in conflict of interest with me vis-a-vis race? Every such president has been an empty suit, a cipher held up as a messiah by an uncritical media? To the left of Hillary?

No, you miss a very simple point. Accomplished light-skinned black Americans such as Obama and Berry are touted for their 'admixture' light skinned criminals such as Huey Newton are not. We can't have it both ways can we?

I didn't miss the point at all, I missed its relevance (because it has none); I don't claim "whiteness" only for the good high yellas. None of that changes the fact that it was a straw man, something that (at best) you've taken from someone else, in the past, and projected onto me.

I'm not your WN everyman, upon whom you get to project your presuppositions.

What was that about straw men?

You implied that the lottery was the whole story, and I punctured that implication; I attributed nothing to you with that question (thus the whole queston mark thing).

"Pay attention: according to the commentator you're responding to, the African immigrants already here are of relatively high IQ."

Yes and relatively high IQ for people in a community averaging 65 would be what; 80?

Hey I don't know either - let's just speculate wildly then! I do know that immigrants are generally not representative of their native populations.

They are of 'relatively high IQ' because they have had the resources. This is not complicated.

Nope, not complicated; you're probably an IQ-ostrich, yes?

That's because there are more than one white candidate running. We have never had two major black candidates running in the same primary. If we did, neither one would win 80% of the vote.

The argument died well upthread. Let it go man, let it go!

Yes because the majority makes it so. A half-black person can scream "I'm white!" at the top of his lungs for a week and a half and no white person will agree, therefore they are considered black. That is, of course, until they accomplish something, then whites start talking about 'admixture' again.

Blacks set the measure of blackness. It's obviously in their interests to set the bar low (dovetailing nicely with white interests, btw). Explaining how whites set the measure of blackness is going to take more than assertions.

Because legally and socially they have been considered 'black' on the American land mass for 400 years. It's as simple as that.

For 50+ years the overwhelming majority of mostly-white persons of mixed black and white heritage have been claiming blackness. Why? Quick references to long-gone circumstances aren't going to convince anyone.

A person who is 10% black could legally be enslaved and could legally be jailed (until 40 years ago) for marrying a white person, therefore they are black. As we say in the ghetto you 'get in where you fit in.'

That doesn't explain why Berry and Obama cling to blackness and more or less piss on the other 75% of their heritage. You can't even admit the obvious, that blackness is celebrated and whiteness is denigrated, and that this explains the behavior in question.

"I didn't bring it up, but I'll respond anyway. No, I wouldn't want him marrying my daughter, and that stands if race is the only consideration. This impacts the assessment of his racial heritage how, exactly?"

If by nature of his race you would not want a man 'soiling' your daughter or family name, you obviously consider him a lesser man. If this is so, what difference does it make if he looks like Barack Obama or Dikembe Mutumbo? And if this is so, his 10%, 20%, 40%, 70% or 80% white heritage is completely insignificant.


There you have it - I'm the bad guy because I value my heritage. What else is there to say (won't even bother bringing up regression to the mean with you for (probably) the umpteenth time)? Oh, there is one other thing to say - this impacts the assessment of his racial heritage how, exactly?

Which one are you, btw? Undercover Black Man? I'm curious - have you ever in your life admitted you were wrong? Have you ever been wrong? Do you ever apologize for your misbehavior, your mistakes, etc? I ask because I've never seen a black male make a genuine apology, which is consistent with the online behavior I see from blacks who don't like my pursuit of my own interests; I often wonder how this "always right" thing works.

You do understand that others see your mistakes, even if you won't admit to them, right?

Truth said...

"You do understand that others see your mistakes, even if you won't admit to them, right?"

Yes I do, my friend, I just, quite humbly, don't believe that you are one of them.

By the way, I would never vote for Obama, as I've now said twice, I feel that he's a shill; nothing more, nothing less.

I voted for Ron Paul in the primary and probably will in the general election if he does not drop out. If not, probably Cynthia Mckinney.